Rapid Response 47 is another Trump white alt spewing racist shit
They should both be banned
I live next to a Mosque in Europe. The call to prayer is super chill and notably less invasive than church bells.
Church bells cut through double glazing. Call to prayer does not.
Idk, bells sounding the hour are basically like any clock to me (I like clocks so I’m biased). Spoken prayer over a loud speaker is much more invasive imo.
Either is fucking annoying. I don’t want to listen to your religious bullshit. Keep it inside the building.
agreed, as long as we aren’t using “noise pollution” to go against a specific minority.
The difference is that some mosques use some shitty ass loud speaker and the guy doing the call can’t hold a note. Like it’s fine if they only do it once a week but a daily call is just way too much. Like church bells are annoying too but at least the sound is way more pleasant. Seriously if Muslims in the west want to be more accepted they need to take into account that they live in a non-Muslim majority country and non-muslims do not need the call to prayer and many find it annoying as hell. Acceptance and tolerance is a two way street, can’t just force other people to accept your traditions if you aren’t willing to accommodate to their traditions too. Like even many churches in my western country have stopped ringing the bells frequently.
Yeah and the morning call to prayer can be a bit much when you’re trying to sleep in.
It feels like it should be possible to have an app on your phone that will make the all of the religious sounds you need to hear, so not sure why it needs to be blasted throughout a neighbourhood. In the past when people had no way of knowing when it was time to go to the Mosque, having a sound everyone in a town could hear made sense, but you really don’t need to wake up the entire neighbourhood at 6am to let a small number of people in that community know it’s time to pray.
Seriously if Muslims in the west want to be more accepted they need to take into account that they live in a non-Muslim majority country and non-muslims do not need the call to prayer and many find it annoying as hell.
Something related and complex is that in turkey, the call to prayer used to be in turkish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_adhanNow, the theological arguments on this are very complex (all Qurans must have the original arabic in order to stop arguments over translation, etc), but it would be interesting to hear the call to prayer in english.
I now deeply want to hear the call to prayer sung in English in a heavy Minnesotan accent. Any accent really. LA, Texan, Georgian (state, not country; you know what, either).
Fajr is too damn early!
Arabic is scary :(
/s
Especially the way they write numbers… Eww
Did you hear that Mandani supports teaching Arabic numerals in elementary schools!?
Also I lived down the street from this. It’s not even that loud. I never heard it when I was living there.
Oh, also Minneapolis never burned to the ground. Like right wing people think.
None of the US cities are anything like what they’ve been led to believe.
It’s different because it’s not a bell, and it’s not white people making the noise. Stupid question.
Personally I think church bells are really annoying too and I’m super glad I live somewhere where they don’t do that regularly.
I hear that Muslims think that anyone that is not blessed in their religion, even infants, will go to hell. They have a single religious leader that has absolute control over their theocratic state and has influence over leaders from around the world (historically, even power over them). They have a history of holy wars, torture of those of other faith, and holding back any knowledge and scientific progress that challenges their doctrine. They adorn their holy places with devices of torture and execution. And they practice ritualistic cannibalism of a holy man regularly, even feeding it to their children.
Oh sorry… that’s Catholics.
You’re just describing abrahamic religions. This thread is honestly concerning. I grew up in the middle east and I hate seeing this much tolerance of Islam because I experienced the worst of it but oh no people think it’s cool and trendy to allow the athan to play t times a day in little fucking Mogadishu now
Fuck any public broadcasting of religion and separate church and state
I’m not defending either religion. I said elsewhere in the thread that I think the Bible and the Quran are full of barbarism and unfit to be a moral guide for anyone. I just love to point out the hypocrisy of American Christians that deem other faiths ‘weird’ and ‘menacing’ without acknowledging their own similar flaws just because they have normalized and contextualized their religion and fail to do it for others.
I cant say that I really care about public expression, religious or otherwise, so long as it is not a nuisance (unless it is protest and that nuisance is the point). I dont know how loud the public prayer calls are or at what hours it runs, so I cant really say if it meets that level of nuisance or not. Religion isn’t my jam, and I dont want it forced upon me in terms of policy and law. Theocracy is a fucking nightmare. As you said, church and state should be separate; they shouldnt even share borders. But everyone has as much right to express their religion in public as we do to critique it. That’s fine by me, man.
I completely agree, and allowing athan to be broadcast is, for me, not the same as public expression. A person wearing hijab, sure. That’s an individual choice and personal expression . Lobbying the town hall so you can blast prayer 5 times a day to give the neighborhood a religious ‘in-group’ feel is borderline exclusionary, and not my jam. I get the vibe you haven’t been/lived in a Muslim country. The athan is literally nothing but a nuisance to non Muslims. It’s like a 5 minute declaration/command for prayer at full volume 5 times a day.
Well that’s what I was saying, IDK how much a nuisance it actually is going to be in practice here. If it is a relatively brief record of chanting at a reasonable volume in daytime hours, that’s fine. Not functionally different than a busker with an amp playing music on the street in term of noise pollution. If it is uncomfortably loud for nearby residents, fully audible from a mile away or going off in the middle of the night, then that goes beyond expression and into disturbing the peace. I know the chants are loud and disruptive (by design) in many Muslim countries. I’m not sure if they are trying to do the exact same here or if they are taking it a bit easier in this case.
“Cool and trendy”?
Yes, it’s popular among the youth in the USA/Canada and Europe to be very accepting of Islam as if it’s as benign as any other religion. And people (westerners) respect the hijab, oppression of women, and it’s socially acceptable somehow now that they can drink and have sex but not eat pork and call themselves good Muslims. If anything they bash Christianity and Judaism extra hard because that is the status quo and give some kind of social pass to Islam because they are discriminated against in Canada or something? It’s pathetic to be honest with you
It is as benign as any other religion. That is to say that none of them are benign
I mean, fair enough. I’ll admit I’m biased against Islam because of my experiences and upbringing but there is some weird exception progressives seem to have for Muslims
Because muslims are overly criticised and targeted specifically for their religion in the West.
Muslims shouldn’t be targeted because they are Muslims.
And
Religion doesn’t have its place in a progressive society.
There are 2 distinct issues, but they are almost always conflated, because it makes it easy to derail the discussions and debates.
It wasn’t near as loud among them until the Free Palestine movement. It was there, but FP put it more at the forefront in online circles.
Maybe in the states but in Canada and Europe its been prevalent for the last 10 years at least. Us Arabs are now the minority flavor of the week for white sympathy, and young people who don’t know any better think they should suddenly tolerate our intolerance because we’re disenfranchised. And that sucks because 10 years down the line some radical fuck is gonna do some extremist bullshit in “little Mogadishu” and anti-arab sentiment will become popular again, rinse and repeat
Only some of that is true. Protestants are the ones who think everyone else is definitely hellbound, Catholics believe there’s reasonable hope for the salvation of non-believers and the pope they started the year with stirred controversy by saying he personally liked to think hell is empty. Also the Vatican is technically under absolute papal control, but a) it’s a square mile in the capital of another country, and b) it doesn’t have a military. They can’t really do anything with their absolute control except provide sanctuary. Now, I’m not going to act like their sanctuary is uncontroversial, they hid both fascists and their victims, and they do continue to hide their pedos there sometimes, but it’s not like they have secret police disappearing people or citizens with no other allegiances, it’s the only country you can’t be born a citizen of.
The point wasn’t to shit on Catholics. It was meant to demonstrate and mock how framing otherwise basically true facts in a certain way can turn what would otherwise be considered “normal” church history and religious activity into something more menacing. This is often used to vilify non-normalized religions, cultures, etc.
Lot of bs. Catholic as far as I know is the only religion where non believer aren’t damned to hell. If they act rightfully trough their life they won t go in heaven but a place call lymb where they will live happily until the end of time. The only difference with heaven is they won’t get to see God. The pope doesn’t have influence over leader around the world. I mean he ask for the end of war in Gaza or ukraine and look how it goes. They never hold scientific progress and where keeper of it during a time science wasn’t spread because of the need of manual labor. Meanwhile Muslim littérale genocide ppl of other faith. So often ressort to violence that u have wikipedia page about it for any european country. Littérale believe the earth is falt and so on. It s not even comparable. It s just bad faith argument over and over that want to compare the incomparable. I would 100x time prefer to be Muslim in a christian country than the opposite.
Forgot about it but children forced marriage are legal in islam u dont need the child permission only his father and it s well done cause rape in marriage doesn’t exist. So it s litteraly pedophilia legal and permit under religious law just with extra step. Compare this to Christianity just expose your stupidity
It’s not a contest. Both religions suck, just by being religions.
And your rationalizations are ridiculous - Muslim literally commit genocide, but you conveniently forget the Crusades.
ALL religion is a scourge on humanity.
yeah cause genocide that happen as we speak is the same things that shits that happen before we evenknow the earth was round and discover all the continent.
Religion suck just by being religion
yet when u face one that litteraly allow you to be enslave and raped because u arent a beliver you choose to not be critical toward it and just say all religion are bad. Kinda crasy
yet when u face one that litteraly allow you to be enslave and raped because u arent a beliver you choose to not be critical toward it and just say all religion are bad
Dude, you are really bad at this, and you’re making a fool of yourself, seriously.
Both religions (and a lot more besides) you are arguing about have long histories of enslavement and rape, and the Catholic church’s record of it is almost a thousand years longer than the Muslims.
I am plenty critical of Islam, as much as any religion. I am not defending Islam, I haven’t once said that your accusations were wrong, because they are not. What you are wrong about is that your religion, Catholicism, is somehow morally superior to Islam, when the Catholic Church has committed just as much violence on humanity as any other religion.
You don’t mind me hating religion, as long as I hate the right ones. You just upset that I hate your favorite team just as much. I hate the entire sport of Religion. What’s so “crasy” about a crystal clear statement like that?
I am plenty critical of Islam, as much as any religion. I am not defending Islam, I haven’t once said that your accusations were wrong, because they are not. What you are wrong about is that your religion, Catholicism, is somehow morally superior to Islam, when the Catholic Church has committed just as much violence on humanity as any other religion.
It’s your right to be critical of the church and his history as any chritian should also be since it hasnt ever be perfect. Yeah i do belive chritianity is moraly superior to islam and i dont think u can’t pretend otherwise. If we think about the revelation from god to human, chritian got a men that die for their sins and never did any morally wrong actions and preach about forgiveness and acceptance. Muslim got a pedophile that was a warlord. I mean how can u think thoses two are comparable is beyond me.
You don’t mind me hating religion, as long as I hate the right ones
Not my point. I think they are really different regarding the ramifications they can have for non beliver politics etc. And yeah you refusing to admit it is kinda bothering, frightening me
You just upset that I hate your favorite team just as much. I hate the entire sport of Religion. What’s so “crasy” about a crystal clear statement like that?
You do u. I think it s litteraly a good things to be critical of religions, i just feel your position of i hate them all equal is missplaced cause they arent equals in most aspect. if u really hate them can u make a valid criticism reagrding other one ? cause all i see is you hating the most tollerant one. It s not really courageous and seem highly hipocryth to me.
You aren’t understanding the most basic of my points - it’s not about which religion is more valid, there is no such thing. ALL religions are organized crime operations, fleecing even the most vulnerable of their victims.
And you want to argue the finer points of these religions’ imaginary friend dogma. It’s not about whether Jesus was a more worthy prophet than Mohammed, neither is a real person, or at least not the divine entity that neolithic fan fiction makes them out to be.
The whole thing is a scam, whether it’s Christianity, Islam, Hindi, Wicca, or any other dumb superstition, and I’m not going to debate which scam has the best imaginary friend.
can u curse islam or juduaisme ? tbh youu never really curse chistianiaty but just show me what you got ? mr i hate religion bc they are bad ?
The Crusades would like a word.
litteraly protecting peacefull traveler against who ? where the start of the religion is litteraly a military conquest
That’s like saying America was only protecting small business owners in South Vietnam
that’s an ahistorical view of the crusades…
Catholic as far as I know is the only religion where non believer aren’t damned to hell.
So, I did exaggerate a bit sort of. Under Catholism, the virtuous non-beliver and unbaptised innocents go to Limbo, which is not exactly Hell. But Limbo is not a happy place either. It is like an offshoot of hell, minus the explicit pain and punishment of actual hell. It’s residents are described as suffering by their separation from God.
Also Catholics are most definitely not the only religion that doesnt condemn non-believer to hell or the equivalent. There are plenty of religions without even a concept of hell or an analogous eternal punishment, so that’s simply not the case.
The pope doesn’t have influence over leader around the world.
Horseshit. He doesn’t have control, but to pretend that he has no influence is at best ignorant and at worst dishonest.
I mean he ask for the end of war in Gaza or ukraine and look how it goes.
So because violent leaders don’t follow his directives, that means his influence is null?
They never hold scientific progress
They have historically been patrons and stewards of the sciences. However there are moments in history where conflict between doctrine and scientific discovery have led to the church using its overwhelming power to suppress the science and condemn its discoverer(s). Galileo and his Heliocentric model is obviously the most notable of such cases.
Meanwhile Muslim […】
See, you misunderstood the point. My point was about how easy it is to frame facts in a way that makes what would otherwise be seen as normal religious activities and history to us make a religion seem abnormal and menacing in comparison. This was a critique of that framing, not of the Catholic church. You then got super defensive and then doubled down on this framing against Muslims.
Catholicism is fine. Silly but fine. Islam is fine. Silly but fine. More or less all religions are silly but fine until fundamentalists, bigots, jihadists (Muslim or otherwise), theocrats, or or any other prick that uses religion to push their terrible fucking ideas onto others or to justify hurting others gets involved. Islamic states are a problem, no doubt. But frankly any religious theocracy is, and for the exact same reasons.
Under Catholism, the virtuous non-beliver and unbaptised innocents go to Limbo, which is not exactly Hell. But Limbo is not a happy place either. It is like an offshoot of hell, minus the explicit pain and punishment of actual hell. It’s residents are described as suffering by their separation from God.
How can anyone present this nonsense with a straight face? There is no evidence of any of this, some guy made up this wildly implausible story of some invisible realm, so he could preach it to a bunch of gullible dopes, and convince them to give him their money. And those dummies who bought in, now have to convince others to be as stupid as they are, and also give their guy some money.
ALL religion is about taking money from stupid people, and that’s what it’s always been about.
So, I did exaggerate a bit sort of. Under Catholism, the virtuous non-beliver and unbaptised innocents go to Limbo, which is not exactly Hell. But Limbo is not a happy place either. It is like an offshoot of hell, minus the explicit pain and punishment of actual hell. It’s residents are described as suffering by their separation from God.
again you exagerate. The pain come from the separation of god. Not tormenty or anything else. It s describe as happy place but your not complete.
Horseshit. He doesn’t have control, but to pretend that he has no influence is at best ignorant and at worst dishonest.
Give one exemple of his great influence ? Yeah he have some but it doesnt have any ramifications
Galileo and his Heliocentric model is obviously the most notable of such cases.
And that s just misinformation. Galileo wasnt reprimended for his discovery but for having use published it without enough evidence for suporting his claim while he did ask before and that was refuse. He litteraly use church ressource to do something that he was forbiden to do prior.
Catholicism is fine. Silly but fine. Islam is fine. Silly but fine
ok you loose any credibility. U do the basic im super smart since im atheist and i dont believe in god just to loose any credibility by not even be abble to properly criticize. U know what im the first aware that the church (wich isnt the same as the faith) isnt perfect and made a lot of mistake. U framing it as it was comparable to a religion that the literal interpretation allow you do to crime againts mankind is wild and quite horrendous about your knowledge on the subject
I can’t believe people are actually debating this bullshit. How do you debate when you can literally just invent some concept out of thin air, and present it as what God intended? No data, no studies, no historical evidence, everybody just seems really confident in their own personal interpretation of what some - imaginary friend, superpowerful alien entity, invisible life force, whatever - wants from us…or else.
making the point that some imaginary friend tell other they should have right over you cause they dont belive in the imaginary friend when other dont. Compare thoses 2 as equal is missinformed or dishonest
You aren’t a very coherent writer, so I need some clarification. Are you saying that your right to force me to live by your imaginary religious rules, is more valid than my right to live free of your imaginary religious rules?
My rights are based on personal Liberty and Freedom, and you don’t have any right to restrict MY freedoms with YOUR imaginary religious beliefs. Live however ignorantly you want, but you have absolutely no right to impose that on me, nor must I respect it, especially when you are trying to force it on me.
I’m so sick of wildly delusional religious freaks thinking about they have some authority over the rest of us, and if we won’t accept it, they’ll force it on us for our own good, so their Imaginary Friend will be pleased with them.
That s litteraly what il trying to say. Not all religion believe the believer doesn’t have right regarding the non believer. I think it s an important distinction. I never pretend I have right regarding your freedom, contrary to other that will ressort to violence.
Keep up the pedantry and ironic bigotry, dude. Keep on pretending that Catholocism/The Bible doesn’t actively support religious murder, slavery, rape, incest, etc, same as the Islam/Quran. Fine by me.
could u cite me where the bible does those ? before you go and quote me the old testament, that s the jew book. I dont pretend, i know it wich doesnt seem to be the case for you. You can litteraly proove me wrong by just quoting the most well known book of human history. Shouldn’t be hard ?
the jew book
Yikes!
funny how you wont have the same reaction if i say the chirtian book or even the muslim one for that matter
before you go and quote me the old testament, that s the jew book.
That’s still part of your holy text. The fact that Christians love to shit on the Jews for their book while being it into their own with the lame copout of ‘bUt JeSuS iNvAlIdAtEd It’ while reading out of it at every mass would be hilarious if they weren’t so oblivious to their hypocrisy.
Edited out the hostility, but this is absolutely still bigotry
you seem eager to judge based on something nobody follow. But go ahead tell me what christian does follow that come from that book and you deem bad
that s the jew book
With all due respect, no. Christians of all stripes quote the old testament ALLLLLLL the time to justify their actions.
Also, ‘the jew book’? Are you trying to sound antisemitic on top of everything else?
could u cite me
Go back to the harbor, sealion. We’re not doing your homework for you.
so u can proove anything ? right i have no ida why reddit atheist became an insult.
Also, ‘the jew book’? Are you trying to sound antisemitic on top of everything else?
No just that the book doesnt hold the same wieght for different beliefs. if it souns anti semitic i t s a you issue.
Funny discounting the old testament with antisemitism while Catholicism is absolutely full of doctrine with no basis in either testament at all. Limbo being a notable example, funnily enough, along with the authority and divinity of the Pope/infallibility of the Holy See, the immaculate birth of Mary, canonized saints, etc. But, sure, pretend like half of your holy book doesn’t matter for Catholics and can’t be held against you, but hold every word of the Quran against every Muslim without an ounce of self-awareness.
funnily enough, along with the authority and divinity of the Pope/infallibility of the Holy See, the immaculate birth of Mary, canonized saints, etc.
Funny how all of these are just tenant of the faith and nothing here allow u to mistreat non beliver.
pretend like half of your holy book doesn’t matter for Catholics and can’t be held against you
I only pretend it was before the new testatment wich by jesus word cancel the old one.
but hold every word of the Quran against every Muslim without an ounce of self-awareness.
Omg he criticise an holly book that allow violence and bunch of shit. We atheist are deeply schock that differents religions can be categorize worse than other. Not a once of self awareness. Idk dude jesus didnt marry an 6yo and did military conquest. If u feel thoses are in the same league im just feel your opinion on the matter dont matter
LMAO
Prove me wrong right here in this book, but umm ignore the first half of it, that the church definitely considers canon.
Certainly you can do a better job trolling than that!
it s cannon but it doesnt hold the same weight. That s why i said that. I can explain to you what s the difference but we keep it simple. yet you can still proove me wrong u have a whole book for that
I’m not religious but I’ve lived near both and the Muslim call to prayer is sooooooo much worse. Not even just the frequency but the call itself - the first time it went off, I muted my music thinking it was some kind of ominous warning. I mean no offense but it sounds like pained wailing.
The bells are quite pleasant imo. But now I live by a Jewish temple and there’s no sound, I like that the most
Yeah, I agree with the poster that it’s hypocritical - but you do not want to live nearby any of the mosques that blast daily prayers.
They’re long, they’re loud, they go five times a day (prior to dawn, start of work day, after work day, and late evening prior to sleep)… and I’m sure they all buy their loudspeakers from the same place that supplies cheap drive-thrus.
Man the speaker thing hits home. The one I lived by had a buzz to it, sounded like they were doing the announcements a kazoo.
I agree it’s definitely possible it’s a legitimate noise complaint. Just as ringing bells could be a legitimate nuisance.
I didn’t like hearing the midnight/dawn call to prayer when I was in Turkey, and I wouldn’t like it if a church across the street was ringing its bells at that time either.
I hate both, just shut up.
Everyone who wants to listen to a prayer can stream it on their headphones. Leave everyone else out of your bullshit
It isn’t the medieval times anymore. It’s already noisy af as it is.
Agree, they can broadcast of a community radio channel or use an app.
Cool I wish we had a neighborhood like that. I really appreciate other people’s cultures
I prefer secular bells
Clock bells have a purpose.
Except they don’t always ring on the hours anymore, the one near me must be 15 minutes before mass or something it’s always going off at x:45 or sometimes x:15. Completely worthless for me, just noise.
Needs text alternative.
Images of text break much that text alternatives do not. Losses due to image of text lacking alternative such as link:
- usability
- we can’t quote the text without pointless bullshit like retyping it or OCR
- text search is unavailable
- the system can’t
- reflow text to varied screen sizes
- vary presentation (size, contrast)
- vary modality (audio, braille)
- accessibility
- lacks semantic structure (tags for titles, heading levels, sections, paragraphs, lists, emphasis, code, links, accessibility features, etc)
- some users can’t read this due to lack of alt text
- users can’t adapt the text for dyslexia or vision impairments
- systems can’t read the text to them or send it to braille devices
- web connectivity
- we have to do failure-prone bullshit to find the original source
- we can’t explore wider context of the original message
- authenticity: we don’t know the image hasn’t been tampered
- searchability: the “text” isn’t indexable by search engine in a meaningful way
- fault tolerance: no text fallback if
- image breaks
- image host is geoblocked due to insane regulations.
Contrary to age & humble appearance, text is an advanced technology that provides all these capabilities absent from images.
They’re both public nuisances & can be reported as noise disturbances.
What’s with the weirdly formatted textwall?
What’s with not reading? Formatting looks correct from your instance on the web, so 🤷. Could you be more vague?
I’m on sync and it’s pretty weirdly spaced. When I went to reply it briefly sorted itself out but there’s definitely something up.
- usability
Or the local Methodist church that plays a loudspeaker hymn at noon everyday.
That’s different, because it is doing God’s Will and Bringing People to Jesus. We’re saving people’s souls!!!
The Radical Islamic Jihadists are doing Allah’s Will and Bringing People to Mohammad, which damns them to hell.
