- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
cross-posted from: https://reddthat.com/post/46807163
Since this post posted in /c/womensstuff, a community that prohibits male participation, showed up on the front page of All I’m cross-posting it to a space where men can chime in and answer/discuss it freely.
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White man here - No, I just don’t say racist or sexist stuff. It’s pretty easy really.
low effort ragebait from both tweets
Looks like ragebait
I walk on eggshells at work because I need to keep my corporate professional mask on at work. Like everyone else I need to put on my work persona and attempt to mask things that might be “unprofessional”. Same with keeping a calm cool collective mask on even if I am frustrated, sad or tired. This is true for everyone though.
As a heterosexual cisgender white man, I have to be careful that what I say does not insult or offend those around me. Doing otherwise would be rude. Back in the day, we called that etiquette.
Now, some people might be thinking “well I am not racist/sexist/homophobic/whatever so I never have to think about what I am saying.” Good for you. I am approaching 40. When I was growing up, there was no such thing as trans inclusive language. You were an ally if you did not call LGBTQ+ people “fa***t” and super inclusive if you did not use “gay” as a generic negative adjective/adverb (i.e. “The teacher gave us homework even though we also have an essay due at the end of the week? Gay!”). A few years ago, a gay friend (and here I literally mean that my friend is homosexual) called me out and made me realize how my speech patterns on sexuality were super heteronormative.
We have to periodically reexamine how we talk, especially around sensitive topics, and make sure we are not implicitly saying things we did not mean to.
This guy gets it.
I agree with this 100%. We should all be careful what we say because its etiquette. We are all working on being more polite and kind.
Being white and male hasn’t ever had anything to do with me personally walking on eggshells at work. Just depends on who is involved and where I am. I just call it masking.
Turn it upside down. Do white men need to walk all over everyone with no regard whatsoever for their feelings?
Nope, it’s pretty easy to navigate work and life in general while actively not being a shit head.
I’ve unfortunately been a part of workplaces where people have complained about this type of thing. Typically it’s because they weren’t allowed to make demeaning jokes targeted at a specific class/race/gender/etc.
class/race/gender/etc
For whatever reason there’s a subset of men that genuinely believe you can bully a woman into having sex with you. It’s not exclusive to any generation either. And they’re fuckin mad cuz they genuinely think they’re being singled out and that this is the strategy actually works for other men.
As men I think it’s our job to disabuse those people of that notion. Using compassion first, but then mockery and whatever else is at hand.
Unfortunately in a lot of situations, they’re right. It’s called rape, even if done just with words. We need to beat those words out of those men.
It’s called rape, even if done just with words
Don’t downplay the severity of actual rape by comparing it to insults please
That’s not what I was doing. I’m saying using your words to pressure or coerce a woman into sex is also rape.
It still seems unwise to conflate those two things
walking on eggshells should hurt quite a bit, no?
Depends on the callouses, but maybe that’s the point of the saying. You are walking carefully as not to get stabbed, like walking on gravel. No one says walking on eggs, so they aren’t afraid of the eggs cracking by the words choice.
Sayings are weird. We should just change it to walking on Legos and there won’t be any confusion. Hesitant fearful movements meant to not stab yourself hard/unexpectedly.It doesn’t imply pain of walking on crushed egg shells. It implies walking such that you don’t crack the shell. “Eggs” by itself doesn’t imply the shell (like some people might think scrambled eggs or whatever). The consequence of not treading with care is crushing the fragile eggshell, or in real terms, emotionally sensitive individuals cracking really easily. Feeling like walking on eggshells is simply stating that you feel the need to practice unreal levels of caution.
If by “walk on eggshells” you mean “avoid using racial stereotypes and commenting on people’s bodies” then sure.
I’m a white guy and I feel comfortable talking about a wide range of topics at work and I don’t feel like I need to be overly cautious about what I say.
I work with a lot of trumpers, so I kinda do, not for my jobs sake but for safety’s sake. But it’s a union job so there’s also a lot of anti-trumpers.
No. I’m kind of an asshole who also works in a sector that is shared with all variety of people and often work side by side with people who ignorant people might call “sensitive”. I really am not careful at all. Sometimes I ask questions I really shouldn’t point blank because I’m dumb (is it safe to be trans here? Do you get harassed?). I’ve deadnamed and misgendered by accident. I don’t get the vibe that people want to make a big deal out of these social faux pas unless you seem malicious. I’ve fucked up a trillion times apologize and move on. Now I have friends who I’ve accidentally insulted calling me up to hang out sometimes. It’s fine. Just don’t be malicious. Most people who complain about walking on eggshells aren’t just not careful like me, but unwilling to change or learn.
I’ll tell you a secret, no matter where you work you need to be a little careful what you say and how you phrase it but generally you can treat it all the same. Your personality isn’t the problem, your biases, your willingness to learn and adapt, and your attitude are.
I’m more inclined to believe that this subset of poor white men have displayed problematic behaviour at work than I am to believe that everybody else just has it in for them.
yeah I work with a guy that is still pretty frosty he got mandatory training and a serious suspension period at work because he couldn’t scream anti LBGTQ slurs at co-workers, we work with children… so… kinda glad he’s been told the leave his personality at the door.
I’m pretty sure “walking on eggshells” means you can’t say the n word or give the brown people racists nicknames.
Whilst I wouldn’t call it “walking on eggshells” - I’ve had my perspective invalidated in discussions based on my perceived identity (majority culture, male) on more than one occasion.
I’m also part of an “invisible” minority which does necessitate actually “walking on eggshells” in certain contexts.
It is a bit disheartening that my being part of an invisible minority somehow makes my personal perspective “more valid” to some people. Every person is an individual, and personal, lived experiences are so much more important than demographic markers and groups.
Exactly. So anyone using those demographics to judge others out of hand is basically by definition a judgemental shitstain.
… just like how the vast majority of Fox “News” avids behave… The ones most willing to jump to conclusions are the worse party in all cases, and that’s fox’s fucking MO. (note that me washing all fox news avids in this way is NOT the same, as I will still allow such an idiot to eat their foot in front of me before I dismiss them, whereas they will openly disparage trans people and “others” while only offering a paper thin made up charicature as “evidence”)
There is a trope of the well-meaning white man speaking for women/minorities instead of letting woman/minorities speak for themselves
Whether you found yourself unwittingly acting that trope or just happened to get on the bad side of a misanthrope it’s important to try to learn from such an experience so that you can be a better ally
Only think I’ve had this happen with a proper misanthrope (irl) on one occasion, an acquaintance, friend of a friend - self-proclaimed “Hates all men” type and very blatant about it. That one was certainly interesting.
Most often however it’s simply the assumption that I can’t have experience with certain things - often not said outright but it shows in small comments or body language. In these cases it is usually unintended and people don’t even realize it themselves. I don’t take offense, instead elaborating/clarifying. But, it has given me a lot more compassion for my fellow men.
be a better ally
I don’t strive to be an “ally” or towards any other particular label. What I do strive towards, aside from the happiness of myself and my loved ones, is having a net positive impact in the world - leaving it a better place for future generations and making it a nicer place for the people living in it.
Also not a fan of “being an ally”. I think gay people should have rights, sure, and I support them in pursuing those rights. But it is quite clear that “ally” means “second class” in these spaces. It means “your opinion will always be lesser than someone else’s”. And that’s not my kink.
Do you mind clarifying the “invisible minority” category?
I’d rather not. Thank you for understanding :)
Sort of I do. I really suck at real-time communication. I usually can’t even respond to “Hi”, there’s not enough time for me. “What? Was that said to me? Probably. I should reply. What exactly? Hello? Hi? That’s shorter, but repetitive. How loud? Just say something. (Output) Hi. (End of output) Did they hear me? That was too quiet, right? Should I try again? What if they did hear me? FUCK! Maybe next time.”
Same goes for when and how to say thanks and sorry. I don’t have half an hour to think it out. I need text.
Other things are complicated too, and I often say things that get misunderstood or aren’t appropriate on second thought, or I interrupt someone because I thought they were finished, or I am probably not heard, but repeating something for 4th time is awkward because what if it was, but it just wasn’t ACKed. But usually that doesn’t happen, as I can’t manage to time my talking at all.
So in a sort of way, yes.
If not starting some uncomfortable talks is the point, then that’s rather just a problem with few specific coworkers.
This has nothing to do with you being white and everything to do with some other personal issue. It sounds like self esteem/self confidence, but I’m no brain scientist. Thinking this has something to do with the color of your skin will surely lead down a dark path though. Maybe go see a speech therapist or the like. They might actually be able to help you with some of those perceived issues.
I kind of forgot this was supposed to be about me being white dude, rather than just the “walking on eggshells” at work part, so it makes sense it makes no sense in that regard.
Sounds like a neurodivergent person having to mask when dealing with neurotypicals. Masking is a kind of walking on eggshells.
Ah gotcha. Yeah I certainly saw some early red flags. That makes me feel a little better! Must be something that really bugs you if that’s what you focused on in the post. Hope you work through it or accept it as a personal trait. Good luck out there!
It’s funny because normal white guys have no issues speaking our minds because we aren’t racist, misogynist assholes. However, those guys (and there are more than I would like to see) don’t really give a shit about what they say because they’re complete douche nozzles, many being narcissistic and think the world revolves around them. They should be the ones walking on eggshells. However, they’re more likely to brand the eggshells as woke libtards and crush them on purpose.
