All from in this thread in [email protected] about a chant at a British music festival where an artist said “death, death to the IDF”.
After other users were quoting that chant in the comments and had comments removed and banned, the hero of our story, @[email protected] (appearing as “acargitz”) pointed out that under international law, fighting an occupying force is legitimate. But apparently not under world news rules, as their removed comments and the many explanations from mods make clear in the thread.
Equally against the rules is the call for the eradication of an organisation or business, even without an explicit call to violence against individual members of the business.
In the same thread: user @[email protected] had comments removed for being anti-American “(again)”, though I couldn’t see the first time. It’s not even clear to me how the removed comments were anti-American.
Bonus points for the “DC Comics” removal reason. Though this seems to be incompetence, rather than malice.
PTB
It’s been a couple of weeks since @[email protected] was in here defending genocide. I almost missed the ugly fucking zio. Automatic PTB for anything he touches with his scummy little fingers.
Now all we need is @[email protected] in here to tell us how he’s misunderstood and really a good guy and we’re all being unfair.
Me:
Hi, my comments were deleted in politics for “internet slap fighting.” I read the rules of that community and don’t see “arguing” as a rule violation. I also find the term “slap fight” to be extremely sexist especially directed at me as a woman, especially since it’s not mentioned in your rules and the mod used that term on their own. I don’t see where I violated the rules with those comments. Please reinstate my comments, and please fire the mod who is abusing their power to be sexist against women with opinions.
Linebreak Me to outrageousmatter (refused to answer bc he is a coward too)
Hi, my comments were deleted in politics for “internet slap fighting.” I read the rules of that community and don’t see “arguing” as a rule violation. I also find the term “slap fight” to be extremely sexist especially directed at me as a woman, especially since it’s not mentioned in your rules and the mod used that term on their own. I don’t see where I violated the rules with those comments. Please reinstate my comments, and please fire the mod who is abusing their power to be sexist against women with opinions. In light of recent civil rights erosion towards women, and how few openly woman users there are on Lemmy, having a sexist mod in charge of a politics community is completely unacceptable.
Linebreak jordanlund
Your continual back and forth with “Soup” (btw, how funny is that statement out of context? Arguing with Soup? It’s like the “women lauging at salad” meme) wasn’t productive or healthy for either of you or for the group.
Not picking sides, just removed all of it.
Linebreak Me: if mods can just remove comments based on whims? Is that fair or just?
I think what I said was very well reasoned and made two great points. Arguments are learning opportunities for everyone. Besides, my argument with them finished yesterday and these comments were removed today. We hadn’t kept on arguing.
I can understand removing comments in arguments that violate rules. Eg me calling him a coward directly. I get that, that should be removed. But even in your own community’s rules, it says we can insult an idea or policy, just not a person. I don’t think it’s appropriate to unilaterally delete comments that don’t violate rules. It tends to suppress the speech of people who are marginalized and not status quo thinkers.
Thank you for your response.
(His response was to refuse to reinstate my comments which were productive and deserve to be heard, but gotta protect other men (I was arguing with a sexist who lost the argument), huh, while making jokes and laughing about my entire gender losing rights. I genuinely hope he gets ass cancer and shits blood).
The men in this country are the most shameful, disappointing, pathetic things I’ve ever witnessed. - [email protected]
Literally a tagline on the Tesseract front for dbzer0. Congrats on being infamous.
Obsessed with a hate sub because I’m a woman who talks about feminism. Pretty aure I wrote that about women’s right to vote being actively taken away and men not standing up for our rights. May it feel like spit on your face every time you read it. May the shame imbed into you.
Here’s some other quotes you can have of mine, you small dicked weasel
https://lemmy.world/post/21587225/13262257
I have already explicitly told you I believe it because Lemmy is full of men who have no problem with rape, which is pretty fucking common.
Like your position is laughable - I’m unhappy as a woman regarding rape conversations, and I’m only getting downvoted because I’m not “smiling” enough in my comments. I’m sorry I have a bad attitude about rapists. I should really be nicer to them like you.
https://lemmy.world/post/20333160/12637526
we can see how much a downvote is worth here. This isn’t a site for leftists or progressives, or even people with a basic understanding of the Civil Rights Era
https://lemmy.world/post/19201830/12103781
Story of my account. These words exist as a monument of spite
https://lemmy.world/post/21644699/13344248
Exactly. You were always a fascist regardless of my behavior. You were always going to be fascist and advocate for fascist things. My pleasantness or lack thereof is simply a matter of palatability and convenience for you; it doesn’t actually affect your morals because that isn’t how morals work. A black person can abuse me as much as they want and I won’t advocate for chattel slavery, for instance. I never thought black people had to earn the right to not be enslaved. Shame on you. When the Rs kill all of ypu men in wars and through shitty food, remember that scene from Mad Men - you aren’t doing it for me, because I never liked you.
I hope all abusive, misogynistic men hate me. I certainly hate them. May you all get ass cancer.
Ok.
Eat shit
Ok.
Good girl
hope he gets ass cancer
Well thats just rude. What did ass cancer do to deserve that? Those cells were differentiating, becoming less like him.
It’s more the psychological aspect of worrying every time he takes a shit and having to get colonoscopies to find out if he’s dying or not
So you think ass cancer is just something that exists to be sacrificed for the sake of your insurgency?
Thank you madame cia director, for your clarification.
I think ass cancer is something that exists to karmically haunt dicks like you
I think ass cancer has a vibrant and potentially eternal life, and that ass cancer’s best revenge will be outliving you.
Also, one of the very few cancers I’m not at elevated risk for. Sorry. It’s gotta get in line.
I do agree with your general sentiment upthread, i just don’t love the splash damage to ass cancer.
🤣🤣🤣
Do you have receipts for that? That’s really fucked up if he does.
Here’s some screencaps, they read bottom to top
He is a petulant little child. Like a mini-Trump.
I can’t find the deleted comments bc he later permabanned me for this (below) post, which also doesn’t violate any rules (all sources are reputable)- https://lemmy.world/comment/13431373
What I posted above is literally a copy+paste of my DMs, I can post a screencap of it
I’ll happily advocate for the Palestinians’ rights to kill as many of the IDF as they can manage. It won’t solve their problems, but they’ve got every right to do it, and nothing else that I can see will solve any of their problems other than better leadership in the US.
I think you’ve probably understood me pretty well, what you decide about me is up to you just like it is for everyone else.
Don’t go to lemmy.world, it’s a silly place, for this among some other reasons.
Don’t you see the obvious contradiction between acknowledging that palestinian hard that right then censor the people who express that right. You don’t have to police how people formulate that right either
When did I advocate for censoring the people who express that right? I think you maybe have me confused with someone else here.
Removed by mod
Me: I like killing IDF people
You: HOW DARE YOU TRY TO CENSOR SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO KILL IDF PEOPLE
Me: What? I am not censoring anyone, I actually listed that censorship as a reason not to go to lemmy.world
You: IDF DESERVES TO DIE YOU MONSTER, HOW DARE YOU
Is there someone else near to you that I can speak with? Maybe I can explain it to them, and they can explain it to you.
Removed by mod
I literally can’t tell if you are a bot designed to gin up conflict, or if you’re legitimately someone who has this much difficulty in having a normal human conversation with anyone for personal reasons or something. If it’s the latter I hope you get better as time goes on.
idf only die doing atrocities; on the offensive
Be the change you wish to see in the world.
As someone who suck at fight and would die instantly the least i can do is to support those Palestinians who are fighting the idf terrorists while you are against the death of the occupying soldiers
Valid.
Well, we can still hope somebody else does that.
I want to be clear that my beef with you has nothing to do with your opinion on the Palestinian genocide, and I’m not accusing you of being supportive of what Israel is doing.
The only thing I’m calling you out for is your tendency to defend mods that are generally known shitwanks in the Lemmy community for no other reason than you haven’t seen it yourself and you’re a rules lawyer.
Jeez, I thought I took Lemmy too seriously.
It’s not “defending genocide” to say [email protected] does not allow advocating violence.
I stand on my record calling for Netanyahu and the rest of Likud to be arrested and prosecuted at a Tribunal in the Hague, but somehow not advocating for murder = pro genocide to the asshats on lemmy.
It’s not “defending genocide” to say [email protected] does not allow advocating violence.
You do realise that under international law Palestinians have right to defend themselves and kill members of the occupying force, right?
So, first off, there’s no such thing as “International Law”. It’s a suggestion at best.
Second, our community policies are exactly that, OUR COMMUNITY POLICIES. It has fuck all to do with International relations.
Real people, in the real world, can and do do what they want. When they cross the border into our communities, they are bound by OUR rules.
As I told the other user in the thread with the removed comments - Don’t like the rules?
So, first off, there’s no such thing as “International Law”.
Thanks for giving me the feed for my community
I mean, everyone should read up on how “International Law” is an absolute failure.
If there’s no enforcement, there is no law. That’s how we got a 2nd fucking Trump term.
Keep digging 🤣
Sure, you want more links about how you have no idea what you’re saying?
I can literally do this all day:
Again, the problem is enforcement. You can say “x is illegal”, but unless there’s an agency willing to actually enforce that law, it means exactly fuck all.
You probably aren’t old enough to remember when George W. Bush was saying the same things about Iraq that people are now saying about Iran, but the one that stuck out to me was that we had to invade Iraq because they were in violation of 16 UN resolutions.
https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/09/text/20020912.html
Folks like me were pointing out we don’t actually give two shits about UN resolutions because, at the time, Israel was in violation of over EIGHTY of them and we weren’t making noises about invading THEM. It would have been over 100 except the US held veto power on resolutions.
So, again, there is no such thing as “international law” as there’s no international body capable of or willing to enforce it.
[…] but somehow not advocating for murder = pro genocide to the asshats on lemmy
So the many users that have complaints about your moderation are asshats, you are right and everyone else is wrong. Gotcha. You really shouldn’t be modding on Lemmy if that’s your outlook. Mods who take feedback onboard in a constructive way are actually well liked by the communities they moderate. Maybe you should give it a try sometime?
PTB yet again, unfortunately.
The folks here on Lemmy aren’t advocating for violence. They (and all of us) are suffering the effects of America’s violence on the world and are simply trying to resist that violence. The US has had an official policy of destabilising the Middle East for decades, as did the British before them. Countless lives have been lost due to that policy. Most recently the US has aided and abetted the genocide in Gaza with vast quantities of weapons shipments. And the US participated in the bombing of Iran based on nothing but vibes. The US is unarguably at this point a rogue state that has now not only turned on its allies, but also turned on its own citizens. If you aren’t at least thinking about violently resisting what the US government is up to at this stage, then I don’t know what’s wrong with you. I guess it’s lucky you live in a privileged white neighbourhood where non-whites were excluded, so all those ICE deportations and protests hopefully won’t inconvenience you too much this time around, like the BLM protests did. I’d hate for you to stop caring about the Palestinians because you got held up in traffic.
So many people in a community devoted to bitching about moderation complain about me. Consider the audience.
They don’t hate me personally, they hate being moderated. And when you look at their modlogs, you see why. These aren’t innocent little snowflakes.
Yourself included:
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=268381
(I forgive the .ml ban, EVERYONE gets banned by .ml. It’s a lemmy rite of passage!)
They don’t hate me personally, they hate being moderated.
Nope. We hate moderators making up bullshit to silence people they want silenced. We hate capricious moderators who can’t follow their own rules.
They don’t hate me personally,
No, I believe that’s quite personal by now for a number of users. You are a perfect example of bad moderation, poor decision making process, illogical arguments and prejudice.
The modlogs disagree.
Quite the opposite. The mod log shows you are one of the most ignorant, arrogant and misinformed mods I have ever seen (from the active ones in big instances anyway).
You have number of people telling you that and instead of admitting mistakes and apologising you are doubling down.
Happy cake day!
Funny how other mods disagree and keep inviting me to moderate their groups. I actually turned down being a mod for News pretty recently, but they insisted they wanted me. I did not want the appearance of a “Power Mod”. Fortunately the communities I care most about are tiny.
When I first joined lemmy, I was invited to mod Politics and World. I didn’t even have a lemmy.world account at the time, I was like “Are you sure? Seems weird to moderate lemmy.world with a lemmy.one account”.
But I’ll make you a deal… Go through the modlog and find a moderation of mine you disagree with. Make your case. If you can argue it successfully, I’ll reverse it.
Yes, it’s everyone ELSE who is wrong and you’re just a wittle victim who is power tripping bc you have no hobbies /cry
Yourself included:
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=268381
What are we supposed to look at?
Just the usual bans. All commonplace for participants here.
It’s not “defending genocide” to say [email protected] does not allow advocating violence.
Do you really intend to stick to this line? Do you ever intend to address the fact that it has been very clearly pointed out that the comment that got the other user, @[email protected], banned was not a call to violence? Or will you keep deflecting and ignoring that part in order to maintain the facade?
It very clearly was a call to violence in a CHAIN of removed comments. You’re attempting to take it out of that context and claiming “Well, they didn’t do nuffin”.
Fuck that argument. I’m not going to be trapped in the by degrees nonsense like that. They know what they were arguing and you’re being disingenuous if you try to say otherwise.
Here’s the full context for anyone dumb enough to buy your bullshit framing, read the ALL CAPS FROM THEIR OWN COMMENT.
First in the chain:
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=562528
Removed Comment Death, death to the IDF!! by BroBot9000
reason: Call for death
Next:
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=73704
Removed Comment I’m advocating for the right of the Palestians to fight for their freedom. Do you deny that right? And for good measure, if I advocate for Ukrainians to fight for their freedom, VIOLENTLY, WITH GUNS, AND WITH KILLING OFF THE INVADERS TO THEIR HOMELAND, am I also breaking the TOS? If I say that my god damn ancestors DID THE RIGHT THING and KILLED WITH VIOLENCE AND GUNS the Italian fascists that invaded Greece in 1940, does THAT break the TOS? by [email protected]
reason: Advocating violence
Removed and warned a second time, against the rules of the community.
User persists a THIRD time earning the ban:
Removed Comment Death to Israeli apartheid. Death to the institutions that uphold the Israeli Apartheid. Death to the institutions that uphold the occupation, the disposession and the genocide of Palestinians. Death to the structures that maim the humanity of both the colonizers and the colonized. Long live all the people who live in Palestine from the river to the sea. Long live the children, the life, all children, all life, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, and other. Palestinian, Druze, Bedouin, Samaritan, Mizrahi, Ashkenaz, Sephardic, and other. “The padrone is dead. But Alfredo Berlingheri is alive and we mustn’t kill him. […] Because he is living proof that the padrone is dead.” by [email protected]
reason: Repeated calls for violence
Not even a permanent ban, like yours, a 3 day ban for being repeatedly stupid.
But I’m sure when it expires they’ll be totally rational, right? Um, right?
Based on my mod experience, that never happens, but outside trolls and spammers we give everyone a chance to learn from their mistakes.
My expectation is I’ll have to permaban them before the month is over, but we’ll see.
Explain my permaban then, when everything I posted was fucking correctly and reputably sourced and has nearly all literally come to pass… go on
Heres the OG text of what got me banned permanently in a comment for anyone curious, I posted about this in December. BTW gold has gone up over 40% since then https://lemmy.world/comment/13431373
That’s not what got you banned, you got banned for tinfoil hat conspiracy theory:
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=6925869
Banned LustyArgonian from the community politics
reason: Repeated misinformation
mod
Removed Comment Bruh the voting machines indeed are connected to the internet. I have given you multiple official sources for this. It’s not a tinfoil hat if it’s real. Wow, I can’t believe how much people like you support fascism with your deliberate ignorance. by LustyArgonian
reason: Repeated misinfotmation
Yeah I linked that itt and clearly stated that. I want my comments reinstated still. And it wasnt a conspiracy, I literally cited a documentary with John McCain and Hillary Clinton, NBC, journalists, the treasury department, NPR, etc. None of it is a “tinfoil hat conspiracy theory” - or is Clinton a conspiracy theorist?
I’m only responding here because you’re saying “they know what they were arguing and you’re being disingenuous if you try to say otherwise” and because you’re making a whole bunch of assumptions about my intent and my …rationality. Basically, I’m only responding because you’re displaying a big degree of bad faith towards me, to the point where you’re not understanding what I’m actually saying, especially in the third comment that got me the ban.
The comment with the all caps, mentioning Greece and Ukraine, fine, sure. I tested the line, asking specifically about the TOS and got burned. That’s your line. I still think it’s a silly line, but that’s your line. Fine.
But the comment you banned me for is where I think you completely misunderstood me. Here’s the comment:
Death to Israeli apartheid. Death to the institutions that uphold the Israeli Apartheid. Death to the institutions that uphold the occupation, the disposession and the genocide of Palestinians. Death to the structures that maim the humanity of both the colonizers and the colonized.
Long live all the people who live in Palestine from the river to the sea. Long live the children, the life, all children, all life, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, and other. Palestinian, Druze, Bedouin, Samaritan, Mizrahi, Ashkenaz, Sephardic, and other.
I thought the last line, the reference to the padrone would be making it crystal clear, but it didn’t. It’s from the movie 1900 and I guess my mistake was believing that this is a classic that everyone has seen. My bad. Here is what goes on: after the revolution, the peasants want to kill the Alfredo character (DeNiro), who is the padrone, the boss. But Depardieu’s character, Olmo, makes the case that they should in fact not kill Alfredo, because his role as padrone is dead and Alfredo, no longer being the padrone is just a regular person now. The padrone is dead, Alfredo lives. Imagine if the Jacobins hadn’t guillotined Louis-XV, the line would be “the king is dead, Louis is alive and we mustn’t kill him, because his continued existence is living proof that the institution of the monarchy is dead: he is now just a dude like the rest of us”.
My argument here is that the institution of Israeli apartheid must die, to free the Israelis themselves from the shackles of being “the padrone”. That’s why I write underneath long live all life, and list explicitly Judaism among the religions and the various Jewish nationalities (Mizrahi, Ashkenaz, Sephardi). They are Alfredo. May they live! And may their continued existence be statement to the death of the “padrone” role, that Israeli nationalism has been ascribing to them.
When I say “death to israeli apartheid” and “death to the institutions and structures that uphold it with all its horrible outcomes” I am not advocating violence against people, I am advocating the destruction of horrific systems and institutions. I am saying the equivalent of “death to slavery”, “death to patriarchy”, “death to capitalism”. And I’m adding explicitly in the people that will benefit from the death of these horrific systems and institutions precisely the groups of people that are currently benefiting from them. I’m not saying “death to the whites”, I am saying “Death to slavery and its institutions so that whites don’t have to be slavers”.
If, despite what I think, you understood all of that and still somehow construed my writing as “repeated calls to violence”, I don’t know what else to say.
Edit: in fact I think you’re also misrepresenting the context of my 1900 comment. It was not a follow up on the Greece/Ukraine comment. Instead, I was responding at a different branch of the thread, below a comment where someone was making the argument that “death to Apple” is not a threat of violence against the Apple CEO and employees. It was already in the context of discussing “death of institutions” vs of people.
@[email protected] you’re answering other things up and down the thread, but I haven’t heard from you. After this explanation do you still maintain that this post, that was apparently the straw that broke the camel’s back and got me banned, was “advocating violence”?
Sorry, I’m being deluged with replies and I’m honestly TRYING to get to everyone.
You landed a temp ban (only 1 day left!) for repeatedly advocating violence. You were warned, and came back again.
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=73704
First comment removed:
mod
Removed Comment I’m advocating for the right of the Palestians to fight for their freedom. Do you deny that right? And for good measure, if I advocate for Ukrainians to fight for their freedom, VIOLENTLY, WITH GUNS, AND WITH KILLING OFF THE INVADERS TO THEIR HOMELAND, am I also breaking the TOS? If I say that my god damn ancestors DID THE RIGHT THING and KILLED WITH VIOLENCE AND GUNS the Italian fascists that invaded Greece in 1940, does THAT break the TOS? by [email protected]
reason: Advocating violence.
You were warned and came back again:
Removed Comment Death to Israeli apartheid. Death to the institutions that uphold the Israeli Apartheid. Death to the institutions that uphold the occupation, the disposession and the genocide of Palestinians. Death to the structures that maim the humanity of both the colonizers and the colonized. Long live all the people who live in Palestine from the river to the sea. Long live the children, the life, all children, all life, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, and other. Palestinian, Druze, Bedouin, Samaritan, Mizrahi, Ashkenaz, Sephardic, and other. “The padrone is dead. But Alfredo Berlingheri is alive and we mustn’t kill him. […] Because he is living proof that the padrone is dead.” by [email protected]
reason: Repeated calls for violence
You called for death FOUR TIMES after being told not to advocate for violence. So, yeah, 3 day ban.
Put on your big boy pants and deal with it.
I like how you quote the thing that proves you wrong and say “hey, this proves me right.”
Lol, zero engagement with my actual argument. Ok buddy, hope you get a breather.
This mod is abusive and I asked 9 months ago for him to be fired due to sexism and supporting a sexist commenter
fwiw, I’ve never even heard of the movie 1900 before, let alone seen it. I think I’ve only seen 1 Depardieu movie…maybe 1.5 (not sure if he has a cameo/archive appearance in the 2nd film of the pair): Jean de Florette.
But anyway, yeah I think your edit here really hits the mark. The comment is just so clearly not a call for violence. Both the context in which it was made and the content of it make that very clear.
What do you mean not everyone knows the filmography of Bernardo Bertolucci?! /s Yea, my bad. It’s a great movie, you should watch it.
So, because an earlier comment was interpreted as inciting violence, a user is no longer allowed to amend their point to more narrowly criticise the institutions that are causing genocide? That’s some serious bullshit you’re pulling there. If that’s the level of logic you’re using, I have little doubt you’ll find some justification for “I’ll have to permaban them before the month is over” to end up being true, that a mod attempting to actually apply rules with a modicum of fairness or common sense would not.
It’s Palestinians fundamental right to armed resistance and it is people right to express it . Keep doing excuses. Netanyahu and rest of likud will never be arrested so let Palestinians use their right to kill the invader and don’t tell us not to express that fundamental right
They are welcome to, but nobody is allowed to call for violence in our communites. It’s right there in the rules.
Their right to revolution doesn’t supercede our right to run our communities according to our rules.
Communities dont belong to you or any authoritarian, communities belong to the people who make up the community itself, and that’s pretty obvious. The reason you are so hated is bc YOU think you’re doing a worthwhile role “for the community,” when youre actually hurting the community and gaslighting them when they tell you that. Having mod privileges and server privileges doesnt make you more of the community than anyone else, and abusing that power is why you’re hated (like all authoritarians). And you act like you have a shriveled up tiny dried earthworm dick
I’m sorry, but you’re absolutely wrong in that.
Communities get created by individuals and they do, in fact own them. They are moderated in accordance with the rules outlined in the sidebar.
If you don’t like those rules, feel free to create your own community, with hookers and blackjack.
That’s actually how [email protected] was created. The mod there reached out and asked “Hey, since [email protected] doesn’t allow self posts and videos, would you mind if I created a community that does?”
I was like “Dude, you don’t need MY permission! Go for it!” When they set it up, I even linked to it as a partner community from the politics sidebar.
I really like being able to direct people to the correct community when I have to remove a post.
Wrong
A community is a social unit (a group of people) with a shared socially-significant characteristic, such as place, set of norms, culture, religion, values, customs, or identity
A group of people. That you are ONE of, who has powers to police the community per agreed upon rules, and to jot abuse those powers. You abuse your powers, according to the community en masse.
I have no problem with the rules, don’t strawman. I ahbe a problem with your enforcement of tbe rules, which is arbitrary and often sexist, and often not based on any stated rule at all.
That this is your response to being called a shitty abusive mod is telling. Way to be so bad at your job, a shit ton of people hate the way you do it. Wow, good job buddy
The community doesn’t get to set the norms on lemmy. That’s done first by the instance admins, then by the creator of the community, then by the moderators of the community.
If you aren’t one of the above, you don’t get a say in how that community is run. You are welcome to participate, within the established guidelines, or not.
If you can’t, or won’t abide by the rules of a given community:
Don’t complain about the backslash then for your stupid rules. Nobody care about your dumb excuses. Death to the idf whatever you like it or not
It’s not “defending genocide” to say does not allow advocating violence.
Oh, how could I forget, you’re just “following orders”. What a good little collaborator you are.
You’re actions, however minor in the global scale they are, are absofuckinglutely defending genocide, you slimy little prick.
you slimy little prick.
Namecalling isn’t the way to go about this. I get it, you’re passionate. I hate .world too. But calm down with the name calling; it dilutes your argument.
Name calling? His last name means “dick” in Hindi. Prick is literally his last name.
Oh, and as a side little note, I’ll insult zionists till the day I die, and I don’t give a flying fuck about that liberal “civility” bullshit, nor do I care if you think me being mean hurts my argument, you knob. The only good zionist is one in a cell phone video with a red triangle above their head.
Hey, you do you, boo. But I can’t take you seriously when you talk like that. It actually doesn’t matter if I take you seriously or not tho, so keep on keepin’ on.
So who is it okay to call for violence against, and eho is it not? You’d get less hate if you clarified.
For this person (who ironically mods [email protected]), I think the answer is black & white; it’s childishly simple. Violence is strictly reserved for the state, because the state has a monopoly on violence.
Okay, so ‘i am a cop and i swear to kill you’ or ‘i hope the police murder you’ or ‘i, police commisioner in your town, will not rest until you and your family are dead’ are fine
But ‘i hope that cop stubs its toe’ or ‘if a cop shoots me, im shooting back, besides, how would i even know?’ Would be bannable?
Lol you’re understanding radicalism vs status quo now babaay
Well, does that factor into the ‘is violence allowed’ rule?
Highly relevant Dimension20 reference
Well, you can’t wish for violence, but the state can, and it can carry out the violence. You can only tut-tut about state violence and vote blue no matter who (unless they’re a socialist like Zohran Mamdani).
The Police Problem has a similar rule:
“③ Saying
copsANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They’re about killing people; we’re not.”I HAVE had rule 3 violations, rare but they have happened. Actually, it’s super rare I have to moderate anything there, people are super chill.
I actually used to have more removals based on rule 2, but that evened out:
“② If you’re here to support the police, you’re trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.”
I have no reason to believe you’d be inconsistent.
There’s no reason to be consistent when different communities have different rules.
People can come into News, Politics, or World and suck police cock all day every day if that’s what they want to do, it’s not removable there.
I mean, it’s Lemmy, they DON’T, but they could.
It IS removable in the Police Problem.
When I look at the list of current reported posts and comments, the first thing I look at is “Wait, which community again?” What’s removable in one isn’t necessarily removable in another.
In fact, the mods were just having a sidebar about gaming. A story from April got posted up and folks were wondering if it’s removable.
Nope, gaming doesn’t have a “last 30 days” requirement the way World and News have.
But me talking about FEMINISM is a removable offense??? According to you??? And it’s also funny to you to remove it??? Just want clarity - cop propaganda is fine, but feminism isn’t?
Eta: coward still hasn’t reponded, probably because he’s a misogynist. Who again, should not be in charge of a POLITICS lemmy
I was speaking to rule 3, which is consistent. The irony I alluded to is that ACAB is usually associated with people who think that, in some cases, it is legitimate to use violence against the state, whom the police serve.
It’s never OK to call for violence, not in our Lemmy.
If there was an armed thug murdering defenseless children on a street, and there was someone calling to kill the thug to stop children being murdered, would you ban the person calling to defend the children?
See the Francine Hughes case re: self defense and how it is completely legally defensible to light your abusive husband on fire while he sleeps, per US law. Self defense isn’t generally considered violence and isn’t generally labeled as violence either.
So why can we only talk about the violence committed by corporations and billionaires, and not talk about self defense?
Ofc, there are many ways to resist nonviolently, here is a free book about it: https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9781501756061/pranksters-vs-autocrats/#bookTabs=1
You, sir, need to separate real life from the online world.
Nobody is saying not to intervene in real life actions happening before you. But if you want to be the “Internet Tough Guy”, yes, that bullshit will get removed.
Answer the fucking question.
If you advocate for violence in our communities, your comment will be removed. Full stop. I don’t see how I can make it clearer. Do you need single syllable words?
Not in our lemmy lol. Lemmy as a aplatform do not belong to anybody
It doesn’t. But lemmy.world does, and the individual communities on it also do.
Ask the folks on lemm.ee how not belonging to anybody worked out. lemmy.one is following soon.
Each community has their own rules, same as each instance does.
Except when violence is the default, against someone you dont consider a person.
Then you can call for it to continue, and only asking for it to stop is violent.
PBT.
PTB
if [[ instance == "lemmy.world" ]] && [[ topic == "Palestine" ]]; then echo "PTB"; fiSerious now, PTB.
Since the existence of the state of Israel causes violence in the Levant, anyone defending the “survival” of that ethnostate is promoting violence. And yet you don’t see LW mods removing comments defending it - why?
I’m going to reply to myself because there’s a huge discussion in the comment chain, and I’d rather speak freely than specifically address what they’re saying. And because this is 90% rant.
A country is not the people it rules over. A country is not a human being. A country is an abstract structure of power. A country is an “it”.
No country should be seen as having a “right of self defence” or crap like that; it’s the same as saying “I hate people so much I’d put them on the same level as an abstract structure.” It’s genuinely disgusting.
And someone might say “well ackshyually the Israelis have a right of self defence”. Sure; unlike the state of Israel, the Israelis are human beings, they do have the right. However (and this is important), the ones joining the war against Hamas and the Palestinians are not just “defending themselves”; they’re putting themselves at risk to defend that abstract structure.
And people keep oversimplifying this shit as if it was “Israel was attacked, so it’s self-defending”. More accurately, what’s happening is that the state of Israel was attacked by Hamas, and using the attack as excuse to kill the Palestinians.
It gets worse. The continued existence of that “it” is causing people to be killed, since it’s an ethnostate on the same level as Apartheid South Africa. By assigning “it” a human right of self-defence, you’re giving the “it” an implicit thumbs up to kill actual human beings. Now you aren’t even putting human beings on the same level as an “it”, you’re putting them below the “it”.
inb4 something that sounds pretty much like “B-but right of self defence! Apartheid South Africa is defending itself, from terrorists like Rolihlahla! Are you siding with the terrorists?”.
(I do plan to read replies but I’m not arsing myself to reply to them.)
Bash, my beloathed
Oh geez, it gets even worse.
According to the mod @[email protected], even just advocating an end to genocide is worthy of a ban. Like, when you’re really specific and say you’re talking about ending institutions that are doing genocide rather than people, that gets you a ban.
And so is calling out a person who is advocating for genocide by their choice to silence anti-genocide views. (Officially, my ban was for being mean, but let’s be honest, the real reason is that they felt called out over their support for genocide.)
Is [email protected] still around?
Seems to be. It’s certainly where I’d prefer to post, although it’s not clear to me what its intent is. What makes “world” news? Non-American? That’s my assumption for the LW one. But on quokk.au is it non-Australian?
Regardless, where I choose to post doesn’t help when I’m commenting on another post. Which is most often the case in any world news Community.
From my understanding, it’s the world without restriction.
US News, if it ever spams up the feed with minutiae articles would be put to a vote. It seems to be working well so far. We have a diverse range of international media sources and I have even see some Unicorn Riot articles.
Lemkin’s original definition of genocide includes just destroying everythibg a culture is, including its methods of social reproduction so that it cannot continue, whether a single drop of blood is spilled or not.
So with a broad definition, ending the genocide would be genocide. Thinking about the implications of that is antisemitic.
Alternatively, stupid fucking users can’t tell the difference between removing calls to violence and supporting genocide.
Then they get butthurt over a temp ban for repeated rule 6 violations.
If you’re going to participate in a community, READ THE FUCKING RULES.
“Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.”
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=135438
Fuck your stupid rules that restrict Palestinians right
Palestinians aren’t arguing here. They have actual worries bigger than what people are saying online.
You know they do use the internet, and tend to be pretty literate, right? I don’t think you can conclusively say they’re not around.
They may very well be, though given the devastation to their infrastructure, it seems increasingly unlikely.
And anyone is welcome to come and discuss all the various and voluminous crimes of the Israeli state, so long as they do not advocate for violence.
My old roomate’s brother was a doctor during one of the multiple illegal Israeli occupations of Southern Lebanon.
The IDF would show up at his house in the middle of the night, tell him if he resisted he would be shot, haul him off to god knows where to treat some prisoner, and then dump him at the side of the road like so much garbage.
Want to call to end that? Great! Prosecute that shit? Absolutely. Call for the deaths of everyone involved? That crosses the line and will get your shit removed.
Want to call to end that? Great! Prosecute that shit? Absolutely. Call for the deaths of everyone involved? That crosses the line and will get your shit removed.
🤣🤣🤣
Next time when history repeats and yet other nazis start occupying some nations and murdering people, ensure you have some stern words for them.
Putting aside how legal prosecution is absolutely violence, state intervention is violence, laws are violemce. They’re just a certain sort of violence tgat you support, that targets but does not protect some people and protects but does not target others. Which was my entire point about what you believe and thank you for finally acknowledging that.
Putting that and how good it feels to hear mostly aside for a moment:
A former head of msf once said that the only way to stop a genocide once it gets started in earnest is killing the perpetrators. Nothing i have ever read contradicts this. You let them kill til theyre sated, or you fucking kill them.
Anything less is permission. Anything less is a call to let them keep killing. Anything kess than a call to violently stop them, is a call for their violence to continue. Condemnation of calls to violently stop them, unless some other force is in place and acting, is a powerful endorsement of their actions. A state in genocidal bloodlust tends to stay in genocidal bloodlust unless acted upon. Pretty sure that’s from a math textbook.
These mother fuckers post their war crimes on fucking tiktok, they’ve been doing it for years without consequence. Saying ‘call for them to be prosecuted!’ is a slightly more repulsive rephrasing of ‘lubricate your favirite sex toy with the blood of palestinian children, queue up some murder videos, then shove it up your ass until you’re shivering with pleasure’. It is a call to violence. Particularly gross particularly spectacular violemve.
When institutions support violence, calling for those same institutions to magically stop being evil, to just stop for no reason but your asking, is supporting violence. It’s saying “this violence is there right. How dare you call for them to suffer in kind?”.
When calls BDS gets called and potentially punished as terrorism, by the governments of nuclear armed world powers, anything short of violence is not opposition.
And it sucks. Not a fan of violence. That is why i believe the zionists must be killed, and killed not just killed until they stop, but killed until they lose the capacity to restart violence. Because that, or fucking ultra-genocide world war 3 are the only two options they have left us. Anything short of ‘zionists must die’ is ‘i masturbate to ultra genocide world war three’. There’s more to it than that; mostly fridge horror about the political implications of their whole project, but it doesnt really matter here.
The non-violent options are off the table. They blew up the part of the table those options were on, repeatedly, for decades longer than I’ve been alive, and now there isnt enough table for both parties. Which violence do you endorse? Silence is a vote for zionist terror groups like the idf. Go.
How stupid can you be to think palestinians are not happy when idf soldiers who are comiting genocide and killed dozens of their family members die in gaza
And yet when I went point by point explaining how the comment that you banned the other user for clearly was not a call to violence, you banned me instead. You still have not attempted to justify how you believe it was a call to violence.
In the absence of even an attempt to justify you actions otherwise, the only obvious interpretation is that you want to avoid criticism of Israel’s genocide.
Rule fucking six:
“regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.”"
This you?
Unlike other mods you bullied off Lemmy, I cannot be bullied. Take your bitch ass to Jon like you did with Wren, go on, I fucking DARE you.
Is there a rule against being factual? 🤣
Facts are encouraged, attacking me for being pro-genocide is not factual.
Facts are encouraged,
So, when he called you a “fucking maniac”… 🤔
🤣🤣🤣
I like how every chance you get, you choose to avoid addressing the actual issue of why you’re banning users for breaking a rule that they very clearly did not break. You choose to concentrate on the part where I hurt your feelings 😭 instead of the underlying lie that the other user was inciting violence in the comment that got them banned.
Take your bitch ass to Jon like you did with Wren, go on, I fucking DARE you.
Lol, nice job completely misreading what happened there… I have to assume it’s on purpose.
Ipsos custodes ipsos, hon
If you want yo be so unaccountable you literally punish people for acknowledging that you exist you are definitionally a power tripping bastard.
Hell, that goes beyond ‘power tripping bastard on the internet’. This reads as a textbook symptom of some seriously fucked shit. You are very likely Not Well. See if help exists and is accessible in your area.
You know how often I think about what people on lemmy think about me?
Not at all. Not even a little bit.
You say, proving youve done so at least once.
I wasn’t talking about peoples feelings or opinions at all there.
It took me way too long to find and unsubscribe from all the communities you moderate.
Unlike other mods you bullied off Lemmy, I cannot be bullied. Take your bitch ass to Jon like you did with Wren, go on, I fucking DARE you.
Tho you’re wrong in this thread, I do admire that spunk! I can appreciate anyone refusing to be bullied off of Lemmy; lots of people tried to bully me off of Lemmy. So definitely don’t leave Lemmy.
But alas, it’s .world, so I’m gonna have to say PTB! Because .world is one of the most toxic instances on Lemmy, and your comm is one of the most toxic comms.
Wait we can’t question mod actions now??
You can, but if you call a mod “a fucking maniac” in their own community, expect at a minimum for that comment to be removed and a temp ban.
Then make the rule dont be dicks to mods not something vague like it stands now
So… if I’m reading this correctly, simply observing the fact of moderator’s existence is against the rules under the sole discretion of the moderator-being-regarded? And the exclusive written remedy for this infraction is the removal of the relevant comment? And you don’t see a conflict of personal and professional interest or how the combination of your actions and the rules are perceived to be a power trip.
Tbf obswrving that a mod exists, were i one of those, would be a sick enough burn I’d need a milligram of lsd and two whole chocolate cakes to cope.
We remove any comment attacking other users and DOUBLY so when it’s attacking moderation.
But that seems to be the whole point of PTB - “How dare they moderate meeeeeeee??!?? I’m special! I deserve no moderation!”
We remove any comment attacking other users and DOUBLY so when it’s attacking moderation.
That seems completely arse-backward. Which I guess makes sense given who we’re talking about, but it’s still disappointing. Mods would be held to a higher standard. Making the punishment for being mean to a mod harsher than any other user is like when bootlickers believe police should be entitled to abuse the public but the punishment for defending yourself is more extreme than for actual violence against random people.
Forget any specific case. I’m not arguing for you to reverse my ban. This is just bad on principle.
Idk bro it’s giving “2 young black state congressmen expelled from congress for speaking truth to power on the pretext of decorum”
Idk if that’s the best analogy when they’re so against BLM. Or maybe makes it the perfect one
https://www.opb.org/news/series/racenw/race-northwest-united-states-jordan-lund-portland/
The grand irony of you calling another user stupid is rich.
Or reading the rules
Well its the secret rules we’re supposed to read.
Making them seen explicitly, for yourself or for others, is heresy. Not knowing them is treason.
What about the violence it is okay to advocate though? That’s okay, right?
Why is that? Maybe you could outline that a little more clearly, because the implicit rule is clashing with the explicit rule here, and some clarification would I’m sure cut down on the need for mod work.
It’s really simple, don’t advocate for violence.
For example, I just removed a comment from a Trump thread:
“Will no one rid us of this turbulent President?”
Seems innocuous, right? Nope, it’s a call for assassination.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_no_one_rid_me_of_this_turbulent_priest%3F
Not allowed. It’s an EDUCATED call for assassination, but still a call for assassination.
Other comments below it were more direct and also removed.
Right because hes one of the people who it’s not okay to call for violence against. So no degree of structure that would harm him is acceptable to endorse.
Whereas for certain other people, suggesting they shouldn’t be killed is a de facto call for violence against some of thwse protected groups.
Im just suggesting if you clarified who is on which list, people would be a lot better at self censoring and make less work for you. You can’t blame people for failing to obey such complex rules when theyre not laid out clearly.
No, it’s not OK to call for violence against ANYONE. Full stop. There is no list of “OK to threaten this person or group, but not these others.”
The only stuff that slides are the comments that never get reported. Mods are volunteers and we have lives, we aren’t reading every comment looking to fuck with threads.
We DO read every report and take actions based on them.
No, it’s not OK to call for violence against ANYONE. Full stop
Are you going to remove comments saying “Israel has a right to self defence”? As Israeli “self defence” means murdering civilians by any means available.
Well ive seen quite a few calls for and defenses of things that get people killed.
I’ve seen your server called a ‘safe space for zionism’. Repeatedly. You shelter and propagate violence. You are violent.
Actual total non-violence is an extrenely radical position, one i dont think you’re taking, one i don’t think you’re brave enough to genuinely hold and take the shit for. One i may not be radical or brave enough to hold earnestly.
You accept, and favor, some violence. If you won’t admit it; that’s worse.
For real tho, Lemmy needs to stop with the murder talk. I am seeing a lot of it. Murder execs. Murder presidents, etc. I’m all for “fuck tha Man!” but let’s not glorify or advocate for murder. It’s pretty sickening. It’s not a good thing for Lemmy to have a bunch of extremists talking about murdering people (or using code-words for it).
It’s really shitty that there are entire classes of people who choose violence to enforce their injustice, which itself is violence.
Watching people die slow on the streets like that is horrible. Even when I’m not one of them, having to watch people deteriorate and die out here is violence against me. Knowing that I’m never more than a couple consecutive bad months from being one of them. Social murder is murder, and it’s the worst most vile kind, because you know how many people could how little it would take to save you. I wish we wouldnt do that. I agree. No more murder. Never again, please, if we could. No more letting these extremists run around murdering people-what, genuinely, is the difference between land mines/cluster munitions, and destructive housing policy?
I know this is a choice, but ive watched people die slow of cancer. I’ve watched bodies gradually degrade and fail. It’s nightmare shit. And I’m sick of drowning in environmental contaminants that cause it. I’m sick of people who peacefully work for better being literally blown up by the fbi. I agree. No more murder. We shouldn’t let tgese extremists run around murdering people.
Choosing to enfirce violent property arrangements with brute violence rather than sharing like we all learned to do as literal children, choosing to violently suppress speech rather than let people make their own decisions, violent combustive destruction of the world we all have to live in and preventing the ways to fix it by deploying nen with guns. I agree. The violence, the killing, must stop, before we drown in this river of blood we will not stop shedding.
So, we’re both mad as hell and agree it should stop. Too much murder. What to do? Asking and dialogue get you shot at and war crimed. Ive tried.
You misunderstand.
@[email protected] is an alt account of a banned user, formerly named AntiYank
They create accounts every few days and post trollish stuff.
And they’ve been doing so since last year. How little of a life does someone need to have to dedicate this much time into being banned over and over? It accomplishes absolutely nothing, the comments get removed in two easy clicks before most people will even read them. Hell, it takes less effort for the mods to ban Antiyanks than it does for them to make a new account. I’m pretty quick to spot and report Antiyanks accounts, and even still I often see them gone before I even read the thread.
According to what they’ve told me in a fit of rage after reporting and getting them banned on numerous occasions, they’ve “declared war” on Lemmy because they keep getting reported and banned and have some sort of “army” of alt accounts to wage it with. Being told they’re not welcome for their poor behaviour and constant ban evasion is considered “censorship” and that must be the single worst thing to have ever happened to them because what they’re doing is so far beyond what a reasonable person would do in this situation (namely, moving on with their life and finding anything better to spend their time doing).
Ok, what about the main complaint under discussion? That apparently it’s not allowed to call for the Palestinians to fight back against the IDF?
Or for them to have any help. Or that the idf have any less help.
I’m surprised they’re still around. That’s some dedication for a platform they say they despise
Some users appear to be entirely sustained on hating the platform and/or its devs. As long as it exists they have a mission, possibly from god.
Explains reddit.
Removed by mod
Regardless. The mod is removing anybody comment about death to the idf. The occupation force that is currently committing a genocide and that international law give Palestinians the right to self defense against them
I wasn’t speaking to that, as I don’t mod that community. I can only speak to AntiYank
Removed by mod
I get it but since we talk about mods actions , i don’t think it’s was off topic to mention what i said
How does it relate to what I mentioned? I merely corrected the one point of confusion.
Your dismissing the rest of the post . So i want to put back the core of the topic which is the mod removing certain comments
I’m sorry if you think that. I in no way did that. I merely corrected one section, without mentioning any part I have no info about.
Removed by mod
Itt: ptb
Poor world news mods can’t catch a break today. PTB
Removed by mod
Do you also call for “Death to Russian soldiers!”?
Definitely, all of these in Ukraine.
What the hell does that have to do with this? Quit derailing the conversation.
Yes
