$15? $25? $0 because the children yearn for the mines?
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Get rid of minimum wage entirely and replace it with UBI and universal healthcare - now you can at least survive without having an income. If you want more than just the bare necessities of food, shelter, and healthcare, you can get a job to earn more money. But, because you’re not forced to work to survive, you can be much more selective about the job you take. Businesses will be forced to offer better pay, better working conditions, more flexibility, etc. because now nobody is forced into working a shit job just to make ends meet.
Get rid of minimum wage entirely and replace it with UBI and universal healthcare
Do UBI and healthcare first.
UBI needs to be pinned to inflation, or we will have made the existing problem worse.
But we should definitely phase in a UBI. Consider it a citizenship dividend: it is what you are owed as a “shareholder” of USA.
I feel like this is the most correct solution.
Unironically the objectively correct answer.
Came here to post this answer. This guy progresses.
As the owner of an asbestos factory and slaughterhouse, I don’t like this.
Also more public housing. Everyone needs somewhere to live and letting a handful of people siphon wealth out of that isn’t working out for us.
I’ve been thinking a lot recently about limits on property ownership, like how they would work and what the side effects would be. I feel like there needs to be something to prevent a necessary resource like housing from becoming monopolized. Something like antitrust law for property ownership.
Sure, maybe that would help, too. But like any system built by humans you’re going to need consistent, rigorous, investments in education or in a few generations you’ll have idiots tearing down chesterton’s fence. “I don’t see why monopolies are so bad” -> “oh no why is everything so expensive and dangerous??”
So, a bit of an André Gorz question here: If we try to further the economy via working towards consumption, or buying what we want outside of basic needs being met, social inequality will still be a problem. Think, for instance, of someone who might be disabled and can’t find the extra employment to afford a car or something on one end, and me being jealous of my neighbor’s PS5 on the other. We’d be effectively driven to compete yet again for the jobs that we thought we could escape, progressing consumer culture as the end goal. Do you think a different goal is possible?
That’s hard to answer. I’m not sure if humans would be able to create a stable society that didn’t rely on consumerism. We’re wired to try to maximize our resources, and this doesn’t seem to stop even when basic needs have been comfortably met. I can’t say I’m at all knowledgeable about this though. I’ll have to think more on it.
It would also allow for more automation within factories because there’s no downside to losing a job.
It would truly fix a shit ton of problems and only for the better.
Authoritarian Capitalists: “They’re taking your jobs!”
UBI: “Yeah…and?”
How do you keep landlords from taking all the UBI?
Murder
Okay, that’s pretty funny. In all seriousness, I don’t have a complete solution. First step is to end corporate ownership of single-family homes. I’d also like to see a property tax rate that increases geometrically based on total area of land a person owns as well as the value of the land. Nobody, no matter how productive, should be able to own 8000 square kilometers under any circumstances, but especially when we have unhoused people working 40 hours per week.
Never happen. Who’s going to vote for the guy saying, “We’re taking away ALL social programs.” Because that’s the only message people will hear. It’s like healthcare, all they hear is higher taxes, no thoughts on the insurance tax they’re paying right now.
Maybe, doesn’t make it not a good idea. I voted for bernie in 2020 only because Yang had dropped out.
Yang had some great ideas, but he’s been wild after the 2020 election.
adjusted for inflation unless the us gets a UBI that pays well enough to live in small towns.
People may not appreciate the genius of this suggestion. Un-tethering the “rural” and small-town poor from struggle would allow them to consider voting in ways that aren’t strictly about money. In some places, that means voting for cleaner water instead of more gas drilling. Or even human rights over tax breaks.
$0. Cover everyone’s basic needs by default whether they work or not.
Then you will have no need for a minimum wage, and people who do work will be in much better positions to negotiate their pay because getting fired or quitting has zero chance of being deadly.
Human life has innate value and worth.
Also having a $0 minimum wage would create a lot of jobs that simply can’t exist with a higher minimum wage.
What do you do when there’s a shortage? I never understood the “cover everyone’s needs” idea. Don’t you eventually run out of other peoples stuff to give away?
Agree with the 0$ min tho!
Idk if you’re American, but I am, so I’m using as the example.
There are more empty houses in America than there are homeless people. There is more than enough wasted food to feed those who are starving.
There are no shortages of our basic needs. There is only unrestricted greed of the rich. People die, not because the resources to keep them alive don’t exist, but because politicians value their wallets over the lives of their citizens.
Furthermore, to address “other people’s stuff” This proposed scenario isn’t like capitalism, we aren’t forcing people to work so others can leech off their effort. We are building the infrastructure to support everyone by using everyone’s money. This stuff doesn’t belong to someone, it belongs to everyone. You participate in the system because you want the benefits and you get them just like everyone else.
Lastly, arguments like yours usually come from people who don’t understand that many people actually like helping others. So, I’m here to tell you: lots of people actually like doing things to help others.
If my government was trying to build infrastructure to help support my fellow citizens, I would volunteer to help. Most of my friends would too. And, if people no longer have to “be productive” on threat of death/destitution, they will be much more likely to do this kind of volunteering.
On a related note, lots of infrastructure and cool inventions are built by people like that. You know, like this website we’re on right now, and the protocol that makes it work, and the software that most internet servers run on, and the operating system that your phone and computer’s operating systems are based on, etc.
Most people like making things. We like creating things. Most people like to help others. It feels good to do good things. The limiting factor is not that people do not want to help others, but that, as things stand, taking the time to help others or create is wasting time that could impact your survival. Many people only care about capitalizing on their work because they need money to survive. If you remove that threat, you free millions of people from the chains that prevent them from sharing their effort and creativity with the world freely.
US answer because I live in the US.
It should be the livable wage of a single person for each US state. It should be calulated each census with an annual cost of living increase based on the prior 10 years.
It would be a lot easier to calculate if universal healthcare and UBI existed.
It should be at least $25 by now for even the poorest state.
State is really not even remotely specific enough, it would have to be done based on city.
Or just high enough that it covers the most expensive places.
Then we might as well just go national and do the same. Most every state has an expensive city.
Sure. Minimum wage should be way above survival wage. People deserve to live, not slave and survive.
then places wouldn’t hire, not saying that that’s a bad thing…
Minimum services, not minimum wage.
Guarantee food, housing, healthcare, transport, etc to every person first. Then we can talk wages.
Setting it to any single number is pointless, it will inevitably stagnate and fall behind inflation, leaving us in the exact same position.
The first thing we need to do is redefine a livable wage to being able to afford shelter, food, and utilities. Then, we can tie the minimum wage to the current livable wage, which will continue to rise in future alongside inflation.
72 bucks. Read somewhere a little under that is what the buying power of our grandparents was when they could afford a house and comfortable life with a wife with a single job, so 72 since the billionaires have too much anyway.
I was going to say $73 but you’re right that would be way too much! $72 is perfect.
But we can’t pay our workers 73 dollars per year! We’d go bankrupt!
Nobody wants to work any more…
Whatever happens, pin it to inflation
$0 with UBI
It certainly shouldn’t be static, waiting on legislators to increase. Tie it to some kind of economic metric that is determined by an independent (non political) body
We have the data to tie it to local cost of living indexes based on rent, food prices, property taxes, etc.
I’ve heard the argument that this would cause inflation because “businesses will charge more if they know people can afford to pay more” which makes me laugh cuz they already doing that shit when we can’t afford to pay more
Hm, pay more or go hungry, what should I choose?
/s
$68 an hour.
In 1988 I was a single head-of-household mom without child support, and a full time college student when there was no tuition. I worked 30 hours a week as a bartender. I had to spend wisely, but was able to pay all bills with 75% of my pay, and have enough disposable income (and time) left to actually enjoy life. In today’s dollars and including tips, my take home pay was $54 an hour.
In 2025, a single HoH parent working 30 hours a week would be able to pay all bills including daycare and have a reasonable ~25% of their income left for living life on a gross income of $68 an hour.
That number would need an annual CoL adjustment. Also, college should be free.
Also, college should be free.
100%
$30 if implemented instantly. $35 if it takes more than two years., add $5 for every three years after either of those cases.
Asking about a dollar amount in a system with inflation is asking to fail.
Cost of living varies drastically across the US so there is no one number that would work for the whole country right now.
Gotta stop inflation and reduce exorbitant prices in popular areas. Then the idea of a minimum wage can serve the people.
Whatever is needed to afford the basic necessities of living:
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Food
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Water
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Shelter
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A minimal level of enrichment
And it should vary from region to region, as the cost of living is not equal everywhere.
I love this point. I work at one of the biggest biotech companies in the world in the manufacturing space. Our staff are essential and were onsite throughout the whole pandemic. A lot of us can barely afford to live in driving distance of work. This company is literally paying us as little as possible to keep us alive meanwhile Mr CEO is taking in millions every year. The minimum wage should allow us to live reasonably in the area we live and work.
Every time I see the CEO in the cafeteria, I wish someone would just punch him and knock all his teeth out. Try enjoying your second vacation home with no teeth, capitalist pig!!!
A lot of us can barely afford to live in driving distance of work
When interviewing, and when we talk wage, I mention the cost of me working from home vs working in the office: the differential in rent close to the office, pro-rated over the week. And a little on top. More if the train doesn’t go there and I need to buy and use a car.
I understand that a portion of their wage is for my talent and another portion is for being able to see my fat ass in a chair and feel better about yourself. You pay for that, you creep, and it’s separate.
I think it needs to scale with rent. Yeeeah.
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Circa 1960, the minimum wage was $1.00/hour and the price of a US home averaged $11,000.00
In “Hell’s Angels” Hunter Thompson ran down the economics of being a biker/hippie in 1965.
A biker could work six months as a stevedore, and then take a two year road trip. A part time waitress could support herself and her live-in boyfriend.
TBF you can still support dependants as a part-time waitress today.
Let me know where the rent is that low.
In my area $1,500 for a decent studio is considered a goo price . North East USA.
Chicago, I’m a waitress myself and support a family of five here on that income.
Uh huh, and i sell the golden eggs my goose lays for a living.
Run down your budget.
General terms is fine.
$950 housing
~$450 utilities & phones
~$150 transit
~$400 groceries
and then a variable amount on medical, clothing, eating out, and travel, the rest goes into long-term savings
thank you
