You can seem reasonable and rational when you distinguish between your opponent’s truths and your opponent’s lies. John McCain earned a lot of respect when he rejected an attack on Obama and pointed out that Obama was a decent person and family man who merely disagreed with McCain on some political issues.

If you don’t want your opponent to appear reasonable and rational, don’t give them opportunity. Lie about everything, all the time. Lie when the truth sounds better. Lie so much that they never have the opportunity to do anything except call you a liar. Lie so much that your opponent loses credibility every time they rebut one of your lies.

Related: Gish Gallop

I shut it off the first time I tried to watch it. Seems like the first half of the premier could have been a flashback in season 2.

I’m kinda liking the Thicc Hornets, but what’s with the extra engine pod on the right wing of that Temu-52?

The screws don’t even reach through the drywall?

There are a wide variety of exotic materials with exceptional strength and/or toughness. I think Graphene would have similar characteristics, if it could be formed into the weapons we see on screen.

I think you finally found a purpose for AI.

Unusual? “Breathing” would struggle to break 60%. 75% is functionally unanimous.

Well, the good news is that this probably means Ohio won’t be heavily targeted by SS ICE thugs between now and November.

Syncthing

Self-hosted. Open source. Your data stays on your own devices. Creates a shared folder on your laptop and your phone. Move a file into that folder on your laptop, and syncthing pushes it to your phone.

“Come on, guys, you’re gonna pop the bubble.”

Well, we’re pissing off the right people.

Everyone forgets the next line:

But if you try sometime, you’ll find you get what you need.

It isn’t society putting pressure on little boys to not eat healthy, there’s just something anti-boy about eating healthy.

Turns out Little Johnny doesn’t actually hate vegetables. Turns out all you’re serving is mushy green beans. Turns out he actually likes romaine lettuce and snow peas and carrots and spinach. But you’ve got it stuck in your head that mushy green beans are the only healthy option you can think to offer. Anyone turning up their nose at green beans is simply “unhealthy”.

It’s not men, its you specifically boo.

Oh, I’m particularly special? I’m unique? My own concerns aren’t shared?

Gotcha.

I’m guessing that only those men who find it helpful are the norm; the people for whom it doesn’t work are each special snowflakes that can and should be ignored by the system.

Why are women’s numbers so much lower?

Wrong question. The right question is “how are we failing women too?”

If therapy is such a systemic failure where’s the systemic faliure?

The systemic failure is what you were describing in your first two paragraphs in this thread.

There is evidence, that when men attend therapy,

Men don’t attend therapy at the rates you think they should. Men are highly resistant to what you are offering.

Your proffered solution to that isn’t to make your offering more palatable. Your solution is to blame them and tell them to suck it up.

Any evidence therapy is particularly uncomfortable for men?

The fact that men are actively choosing not to attend therapy at the rates you seem to think they should is prima facie evidence that therapy is particularly uncomfortable for men.

Instead of accepting, internalizing, and taking responsibility for that fact, the field outsources blame for it to men.

Me: “Little Jonny isn’t eating his vegetables.”

You: “Boys who eat their vegetables enjoy them about as much as girls who eat their vegetables”.

Me: “Yeah, but little Johnny isn’t eating his.”

You: “What did I just tell you? Boys who eat their vegetables report they like them at similar rates as girls”.

Me: “That’s great, but we aren’t talking about a boy who eats his vegetables. We’re talking about a boy who chooses not to. He doesn’t like vegetables.”

You: “He’s just experiencing social toxicicity. If he tried them, he’d like them.”

Me: “He has tried them. He doesn’t like them. And he’s getting pretty pissed off that you keep ignoring him when he tells you he doesn’t like them.”

You: “Nonsense. Boys who eat vegetables like them just as much as girls do. Science.”

Me: “Yeah, but little Johnny isn’t a boy who eats vegetables.”

You: “Right. Because he’s got some sort of toxic attitude against vegetables.”

Me: “Or he just doesn’t like what you’re trying to shove down his throat.”

You: “How many times do I have to tell you that boys who eat vegetables like them just as much as girls who eat vegetables?”

Me: “Whatever. Maybe we could try serving something that he might actually enjoy?”

You: “There’s nothing wrong with the vegetables, just keep serving them. When we get rid of his toxic friends, he’ll admit he actually likes his vegetables.”

Me: “…”

You: “I do wonder why aren’t boys eating vegetables as much as girls.”

/Scene

It’s a little clunky, but KryptEY is an on screen keyboard that can encode/decode messages. The encoded messages can be transmitted over any service.

But the system men are being failed by has also been discussed for 30+ years.

The system alienates men. 30+ years after realizing that, your first thought isn’t “The system is the problem. How do we make the system more appealing to men?”.

The very first thing you have to say about it is “The men are the problem. How do we make the men more appealing to the system?”.

And I don’t just mean you personally. That hostile attitude pervades the whole field. When confronted with complaints that this overt hostility is uncomfortable, off-putting, and alienating, double down. Force the patient to choose between submission or retreat, then act all surprised at the ones who never come back.

Got it. Therapy works.

All these people killing themselves aren’t indicative of any sort of problem with “the system”. They’re responsible for their own deaths, because they refuse to accept what you know to be true.

Makes perfect sense. Have a nice day.

It doesn’t show therapy causing harm.

it shows therapy failing to prevent harm. It shows a systemic failure that you refuse to accept.

Liar. I haven’t, please provide a quote of me directly blaming a patient that isnt.

The very first words you gave us in this thread:

We need to get mem comfortable with therepy.

You didn’t say we need to make therapy comfortable for men. You said we need to make men comfortable with therapy. You described the problem as being on the side of the patient, rather than on the side of the system. You continued:

I know, toxic masculinity says “Real men don’t talk about their problems”.

Didn’t bother to discover any of their concerns. Didn’t bother to determine the validity of those concerns. Didn’t validate their feelings on the subject; just dismissed them entirely. You collapsed every concern of men about therapy into “toxic masculinity”. Your very first thought on the topic was to blame the patient.

That victim-blaming attitude upset me considerably, and is the specific reason why I decided to engage with you. The attitude you presented in your very first words of your very first comment is my answer to a question you will ask later in the conversation:

Why do men utilise mental health services at a much lower rate? Perhaps other men erroneously say it doesn’t work for men. Perhaps other men erroneously say its no better than staying at home and jerking off. Perhaps men are under a social pressure to not seek help.

Stop dismissing their concerns. Stop alienating them. Start listening. Start fixing the system so that it adequately addresses their concerns. Stop blaming their “toxic masculinity”, start validating their concerns.

You didn’t say that therapy was as effective as sitting at home and masturbating?

No, actually, I did not. I invite you to read the comment again. You provided “booze” and “suicide”, and argued that therapy was better than these harmful alternatives.

In response, I asked whether therapy was better than neutral alternatives. Obviously, it’s better than direct harm. I asked whether it was better than a placebo. I asked whether therapy was better than chronic masturbation, among several other neutral, non-harmful alternatives.

My frustration is not with men who were failed by therapy. It’s with the narrative leap from “this didn’t help me” to “this shouldn’t be encouraged,

You’re arguing against a strawman. That narrative leap isn’t being made.

A treatment can be fallible, imperfect, and even damaging for some people and still be worth recommending when it reduces risk for many others.

Of course. BUT, (and this is the part you keep missing) when you have concrete evidence in front of you that it is ineffective/damaging (The Graph), the focus needs to shift toward ameliorating that harm. Stop shoving the failing status quo down throats. Stop blaming patients. Admit failure, admit fault, and focus on fixing the system.

Recognize that there is a group of people for whom the current system doesn’t work. Stop telling that group to utilize the current system. Give them a system that does actually work for them.