Sure, more Palestinians will die
Sure, Ukrainians will die
Sure, US minorities will die
Sure, the entire world will suffer from a fascist demagogue at the head of the most powerful country in the world
But have you considered that, for a few brief moments of time,
we created a lot of value for the shareholderswe got to feel smug over the SHITLIBS who wanted to prevent fascism?Ahh, but you see, you disagreed with Stalin that one time, and therefore you were the fascist all along
As I believe in the abolition of capitalism and the creation of a popular base of support for such a measure, instead of a narrow oligarchy oppressing the proletariat and enforcing its will on society, I am a shitlib. It’s a terrible burden to bear. 😔
Correct, my harm reduction framework is much more violent than your harm reduction framework, and is therefore more interesting, which makes you wrong.
Communism sucks! We should have a classless, moneyless, stateless society where goods are distributed from each according to ability to each according to need instead! And according to Hexbear users, such a model is called liberal capitalism.
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And hardly takes that. All you have to do is have a subtle difference of opinion, and BAM! You’re a fascist.
My favorite, however, is that when you point out that their arguments are 100% logical fallacies, you get banned from multiple communities at once.
Did you know if you support Harris, you’re also a transphobe?
Just admit it!
Something something chronically online lmfao touch grass bougie.
It’s honestly such a shockingly privileged position it almost defies belief that anyone could actually be so dense unless they are operating in bad faith. Yes, there are several serious problems in the world, and absolutely none of them are solved by helping the US slip into fascism. Leftists in particular are supposed to hate fascists, so I can’t imagine how anyone with leftist sympathies could possibly want to see what the world looks like with an unrestrained Trunp at the helm. Again, unless they are so privileged they don’t think the consequences would affect them personally, in which case I would call any other profession of external empathy which they might bleet ad nauseum, as questionably sincere.
They don’t think the consequences will touch them. They’re the leftist equivalent of “shitlibs”
it almost defies belief that anyone could actually be so dense
There is no end to the depths of human stupidity.
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But what else am I gonna do with my feelings of impotent rage? Try to actually change something?
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This was a great comment until you implied only conservatives are deciding not to vote for Harris due to our support of Israel.
I was making fun of that short-sighted self-serving nature by making a comparison to capitalist conservatives, not asserting that champagne socialists are, themselves, capitalist conservatives (though, functionally, their actions serve the same goals).
Short-sighted self-serving is what happens when people promote a lesser evil out for fear of a greater one.
They are not willing to risk their lives in the pursuit of an end to our complicity in genocide. More concerned with their current sense of safety in the heart of the Empire than the violence employed to maintain it. Prefferring the surety of another four years where they don’t have to think about politics over the chance for fundamental changes in how our political system functions when a large majority of the country aligns against a second Trump administration.
But hey, at least we can all look forward to doing this again when Trump runs in 2028, right? Democrats surely won’t triangulate even further to the right in pursuit of the mythical moderate Republican voter, right?
Prefferring the surety of another four years where they don’t have to think about politics over the chance for fundamental changes in how our political system functions when a large majority of the country aligns against a second Trump administration.
God, accelerationism is so fucking dumb.
If we just let the fascists win then we’ll be able to usher in a socialist paradise! What’s unclear about that to you? Read a book! /s
I hate and love how this is pretty much exactly accelerationism explained without the childlike naiveté.
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A literal pandemic killed millions of Americans and the status quo between the Democrats and the Ivermectin party barely even twitched.
If you think there is a realistic electoral path out of our bipartisan death spiral, I would love to hear it. I’m just cynical enough not to be surprised that neither complicity in genocide abroad or the mass murders of schoolchildren at home will convince the Democrats to start treating Republicans like a threat.
What exactly does “treating Republicans like a threat” look like to you?
The way out of a death spiral is not directly into oblivion. It fucking sucks that genocide is in the category of really important things that need addressing but it is not in the category of things that can be addressed in this particular election.
The electoral path is not at the ballot box every four years at the presidential level. It’s down the ballot and on the other the years. It’s building political capital for the cause you believe in by showing usefulness to the people seeking or holding power and talking to them about the issues you care about. Volunteer for your local house candidate and talk to people in their campaign about how important it is to you that they don’t support genocide, urge them to vote against arms shipments and denounce settlements. Tell your representative how you want them to vote and get other people to do the same.
Working to get people elected gets them to listen to you, that’s why there’s so much money involved in elections.
You’re a fucking idiot.
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As opposed to what, doing the same thing every election in the hopes that it will somehow turn out differently this time?
Every time the Dems look left they lose. They go to the center because they lose control (they need all 3 houses to do anything), so they go to the center to find voters. They’ve had control of all 3 houses for, drumroll please, 4 of the last 24 years. Want them to stop going to the center? Them give them victories.
I wish more people could understand this. Or even made an effort to.
As opposed to trying to make things better and avoid more suffering for everyone.
Accelerationists have never lived through what they claim to want because if they did, and lived, they would no longer be accelerationists.
Accelerationists won’t have to live with the consequences because they don’t originate in the US.
Doing the same thing you’ve always done isn’t “trying to make things better”, it’s “trying to make things stay the same”.
If you want to avoid suffering, you have to be against genocide.
Check your privilege
You’re kidding, right?
If you weren’t paying attention, I’m a transgender furry. I’ve been personally targeted by Nazis long before Trump declared people like me to be enemies of America.
Do you think I am not painfully aware of what is at stake here?
I mean, that or all the angry young/middle age voters could, gasp show up to the primaries and move the party to the direction they’d like to see. Instead, the elderly voters, despite being a much smaller share of the population, outvote the heck out of them.
If folks like you paid attention to politics when it matters, not just when it was trendy, things would be a lot different.
Then again, reading what you’ve written, maybe it’s for the best y’all don’t.
I love the idealism, I lost mine decades ago.
Realistically, this is America we’re talking about. A literal pandemic that killed millions was only worth a 16% bump in the total vote count. The sooner you come to terms with the fact that this country is not and has never been a real democracy, the sooner you’ll be able to stop relying on the electoral system to save the world.
Also, I resent the assertion that I don’t pay attention to politics. I pay too much attention to politics. To the point that I predicted this exact scenario for the 2024 election back in 2015 when the DNC first started openly conspiring against Bernie, months before they ratfucked him out of the primary. I was the only person among my family and friends not to be surprised when Hillary lost in 2016. I knew the incumbent for 2024 would have to drop out to give the VP a chance at winning against Trump literally years before we learned that Biden was going to be that incumbent. I feel like Cassandra, cursed with foreknowledge that none will heed.
Anyways, the problem isn’t “trends” or a lack of interest from the youth, the fundamental issue is that electoral politics is a trap. Do vote in local and national elections, of course, but if voting is all you’re putting your energy into then you’re doing it wrong. And our political media ecosystem is designed to ensure that most people do it wrong by investing literal billions into election campaign coverage.
The real forefront of American politics is the union movement. Now that they’re starting to throw off their old business-friendly management and implementing democratic processes for replacing them, they’re taking position to become the driving force behind the new left. Watch for that over the next few years as the Republican party falls apart from the blowback against Trump’s attempts to steal the election while the Democrats continue triangulating to the right to pick up the “moderate” leftovers and alienating their own left wing.
People refusing to vote for Harris becuase of a foreign conflict they understand nothing about is peak stupidty.
Yeah, because that worked out so well when in 2016 when Trump got elected, the GOP got multiple Supreme Court picks, multiple federal judges were given life terms, and Roe vs Wade got struck down. Let’s see how that plays out when Ukraine falls, war breaks out in Europe, America becomes a theocratic dictatorship, and what little progress we may have seen with the environment completely falls apart and the world goes full tilt towards becoming an uninhabitable hellscape. Whatever the protest was about will be utterly meaningless.
If you want to protest, you protest AFTER you get sympathetic ears into office, not after you get the opposition elected. Trump gets in, then suddenly he’ll give you plenty to protest about, vs protesting when Harris is in office and she actually has a willingness to listen to protests and meet their demands.
Such people who buy into this logic aren’t all that bright. Accelerationists without a comprehension of entropy or a capacity of how this might impact a whole range of other vitally-important issues like women’s rights or Ukrainian civilians among dozens over others.
Alas, we know a lot of this is fueled by foreign propaganda.
oh i’m sure the comments on this post will be real civil
Social media psyops don’t require all of the people to be puppets. You just spread some ideas around that get picked up by normal people, make some opinions get seen by the right people, etc. They are mostly not starting fires, but are simply adding a tiny bit of fuel here and there, which gets amplified by the internet.
All of the excessive online moderation actually works against it. When I started using the internet, there was a golden rule: “don’t believe anything on the internet”. Nowadays people think platforms will only show them the truth, but in reality you’re being put into a filterbubble, an echo chamber of an opinion that keeps fueling itself.
They are either Russian trolls or children who have a Disney level perspective on politics, I think. They don’t want to recognize that they have very limited options or the harsh realities surrounding them.
From now on, whenever I encounter someone who says they’re not voting/voting 3rd party, I’m gunna ask if they’ve tried to reach out to their representatives trying to get them to raise some support for what they believe in. Or if they’ve tried nothing and are now just giving up. These people are literally supposed to work for us.
It really depends on which state you live in whether or not you have the luxury of a protest vote. If you live in NY state that has a 20% lead for Harris, sure, some people can vote Jill Stein or something. But if you live in a state that actually might be close or not an obvious blowout, you can’t vote that way. You actually have to be tactical with your vote, not idealistic or symbolic.
Even if you’re in a solidly blue state, don’t fuck around with your vote.
You fuck around, and we all find out.
Back in 2000 I traded my vote for Nader in a swing state with someone in a solidly blue state. We should do that now.
Whenever I hear people pushing the, you’re either with us or against us, kind of rhetoric it makes me shake my head. It should go without saying, but obviously it doesn’t, that you don’t get to tell other people how to vote, and if you try to, they’re going to think you’re a raving lunatic. If you actually want to convince them to vote, you might want to consider making a plan for how to reasonably sway their views.
Or don’t, do whatever you want, it’s your life.
you don’t get to tell other people how to vote, and if you try to, they’re going to think you’re a raving lunatic
Umm…that’s the entire way we select leaders. The entire campaign for any office, high or low, is telling people how to vote. That’s literally democracy in action.
And it is not wrong to tell people that if they want third party candidates, the path to do so is to start with voting reform. I’m in Oregon, and we’re actually making progress on this instead of just bitching about it or running spoiler third party candidates. We have ranked-choice voting on the ballot this year. If it passes, all our state and federal elections will be decided by ranked-choice voting. We’ll actually make it viable for progressive third party candidates to run for our US House and Senate seats without just serving as a spoiler for Republicans. We’re actually doing something about the two party duopoly.
But you never hear these anti-Kamala trolls suggesting doing something that would actually make a difference. They show up every election, and their platform is ALWAYS “don’t vote for the democrat.” Doesn’t matter what election. Doesn’t matter what year. They always find some reason that you shouldn’t vote for the Democratic candidate. Their criticisms always attack the Democratic candidate and ignore the Republican.
They’re clowns and trolls. Nothing more. They bitch about the two-party duopoly, but they don’t actually want to do anything. The truth is they’re actually just Republican trolls.
Don’t you see how you come across? You think you get to tell other people what to do. But humans don’t like it when you try to tell them what to do. Instead of barking orders and calling names, why don’t you try to convince people that you have a reasonable position?
I’m not sure what kind of red herring you’ve been smoking, and I would love to try some, but these people that you think show up every election and insist that we vote against the Democrat but never say anything bad about the Republicans, who exactly are you talking about? Certainly there are some centrist pundits on TV who have ridiculous positions like that, but fortunately I’m not seeing too many comments on this platform of such an absurd nature.
LOL, what rhetoric? I’m generally of the opinion that voting is an end in itself in democracies, and wish we had mandatory/compulsory voting laws. If you live in a democracy there should be obligation to vote, and the citizens should feel confident that we are accounting for the will of the people. But with the electoral college and first past the post system, there are realities of outcomes. There are really only 2 possible outcomes of a presidential race. And if you live in a swing state your vote does a lot more to tip realize one of those 2 outcomes. So the motivation to vote should be to help achieve one of those 2 outcomes that you find more preferable. If you live in a state that is not even close, that is when you don’t have to worry much about your vote impacting the outcome and therefore have more latitude. I’ve voted 3rd party in multiple elections, but I did so in good conscious knowing I wasn’t impacting the outcome of actual leadership due to the area I vote in. In pure rational choice model, sure, your individual vote likely won’t matter (how often is a race decided by 1 vote?), but if the level of effort to vote is low, might as well do it just in case and for a sense of moral civic duty to a democracy.
Kinda like a tactical wee?
I got into this argument the other day. People’s arrogance and lack of common sense was disappointing.
I’m going to be 100% with yall that comment and post this shit.
Before I go on, let me say I voted dem and know they would be better for the world over Trump.
But is that’s the standard and argument you expect people to vote for, you are in for a rude awakening… To anyone reading this or agreeing with these outright insulting comments and posts about how you know better need to take a long look in the mirror. Because…
If the only support you are giving to the Palestinian and Arab people is voting Dem and having arguments about lesser evils, then you are not helping the situation.
Yes vote dem. But get off your ass and protest, donate, and support those communities currently harmed be democrats disastrous Gaza and Middle East policy. That’s how you sway hearts and minds. These fucking backhanded, self serving, ignorant posts and comments won’t stop anything but prove to those communities that the democrats base does not give a shit about anything that doesn’t directly effect themselves.
Yall are missing the forest from the trees. Not voting for the light genicidal party nor the full genicidal party isn’t some gotcha win for Trump. It’s a failure on our part to demand our party doesn’t continue using our votes to do harm.
call your senators daily and demand they publicly denounce Israel and the IDF. Donate money to organizations that are saving lives destroyed by our bombs. March with your fellow Palestinian and Arab brothers and sisters. Divest and boycott any business with ties to Isreal and the IDF.
But Ya im sure comparing individuals that have lost friends and family to bombs provided by the Democrat administration, to Lord Farquaad. We’re better than this. This is just conservative tactics used on a population that we need to vote blue! We are better than this! show some empathy and get involved. I have Palestinian friends and they would spit in your face if you said this kind of shit to their face because it’s removing the humanity of the 40k people killed by Isreal via bombs provided by Biden/Harris. If you/we don’t care why should they?
Edit: just realized how tone deaf this post is. Who’s more like Lord Farquaad? Palestinian and Arab Americans who’s friends and family are being displaced, starved, and bombed? Or literally the leadership that didn’t even allow Palestinians to speak at a convention and is currently providing bombs and aid to Isreal?
Thank you so much for this detailed response. I think I’m gonna vote for Kamala, not because I think Kamala is gonna do good things for the Middle East.
I’m voting because either we get a president that may or may not listen to protesters, or we’ll get one that will wipe out protesting nationwide.
Yeah tell ne qbout it thinking not voting for either one somehow helps trump 😂 same people that failed basic arithmetic clearly. What they really msan to say is that people voting third party are not helping harris…and yeah thats the point and entirely not the same thing.
49k votes for Stein in Pennsylvania, Trump won by 47k
32k votes for Stein in Wisconsin, Trump won by 22k
51k votes for Stein in Michigan, Trump won by 10k.
Third party voters are useful idiots.
Maybe you should convince the democrats to try and win some third party votes then. Can’t blame people for voting according to their values.
I’m sure you call multiple groups of americans idiots though. Thats definitely not the same thing the republicans do to minorities right?
You’re doing the good discrimination right?
“Useful idiot” has a specific meaning.
Yes you are very intellectual indeed.
Yes, using a common term makes me an intellectual 🤡
I like your clown outfit.
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Its literally how they behave everywhere, business or military.
You are judged by your ability to attack opinions or people you don’t like.
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I am not reading that.
Sorry i shouldn’t have made it so advanced. Ill try to come up with a simpler example in the future!
But maybe sit out of the political bitch fest if you can’t handle how basic arithmetic works eh?
If harris or the dnc want votes, then promote and deliver on policies that people want. If you cant well thats a them problem.
Copy pasting the same smug wall of text every time is not the political own you think it is. In fact, it makes people not want to read it.
Maybe you should get off of the internet and enjoy the nature outside. It’s good for people, y’know?
Try taking your own advice. A bit of time away from a screen should help with these feeling that everyone who fails to vote for Harris is a Trump suppprter.
shrug maybe people should get a clue on what third party votes mean and stop posting the same tired, wrong, and pointless ‘theyre helping Y’ nonsense and ill stop treating them all like children.
If by “third party” you mean Jill Stein, well…
😂 those in glass houses shouldnt throw stones. Funny that harris has one supporting her too.
Did you even read this article? This is what Liz Cheney actually said:
“Reactionaries make statements. Conscientious and thoughtful people take action because they know moral statements will never change the world.”
If you’re interpreting that statement as indicating support for Apartheid, then you clearly have problems with reading comprehension.
In any case, there’s a big difference between Liz Cheney’s bad opinion in 1987, and the guy who founded the “Knights of the Ku Klux Klan” in Louisiana. There’s quite a gap in scale there.
Your “stone” seems to be more of a bouncy ball.
Dick Cheney sweet heart. Dick. But liz is also a shit human. Seems like harris is attracting alot of them with a warm embrace. 🤔
But the article you linked is about an op-ed that Liz Cheney wrote while in college? I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make about Dick.
indeed it is. that op-ed is just as bad. anyways.
Dick Cheney voted against imposing economic sanctions on South Africa’s apartheid government and opposed a resolution calling for Nelson Mandela to be released from prison, saying Mandela was a “terrorist”—a position Cheney defended as recently as 2000, when he ran for vice president.
there are a lot of things about dick we can reference here if you want. but that was the relevant bit. I was just pointing in a direction for you to get you started.
Dick Cheney is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Incredible that liberals will defend the Cheneys, not sure if it’s that you don’t care about people’s lives if they happened to be born in another country, or if you’re just willing to defend anyone and anything if you think it’ll help you win.
How did Stein’s response to David Duke’s endorsement compare to Harris’ response to Cheney’s? Did she accept the endorsement?
Its the part you said about lives in other countries not mattering.
The propaganda there is strong.
Is this a bot account or something? Every post has obvious typing mistakes and they all say utter bullshit. When shortly scrolling through their comments I didn’t see a single upvote.
Every comment is on the usa election. Account created 2 weeka ago.
That’s good enough for me. Blocked.
Stop blocking these people! It just amplifies their voices!
I don’t hear anything
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and yes, everyone comment is on the election because thats all I particularly care about atm ;) please support rank choice in your state so this nonsense can stop. I’m tired of watching my country kill people for no good fucking reason. I’m tired of watching people shit on 3rd party voters for having a moral conscience that is clearly superior to the majority of liberals.
I am sorry every argument against 3rd party voters is so easily torn apart by simple addition demonstrating that its harmless. if more people had a spine maybe harris wouldn’t be supporting a genocide. but then again maybe she would. either way hard pass.
beep boop.
Oh the irony here.
If there are only two viable options, not helping one is the same as helping the other.
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Sorry, those are the choices for what election?
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If there’s a toddler about to walk into traffic and you choose to keep swiping on tinder or whatever instead of helping the kid, that kid’s death is still on you.
Samw thing with not stopping trump.
It’s really not complicated.
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Okay, 40k have died, you can choose to be on your phone and another 80k will die ot you can help and only 40k more will die.
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Hey kiddo, instead of deflecting to Palestine, how about you explain how either this voting instance is different than the analogy I’ve given or admit that you’d be fine letting the kid die because of whatever.
If you’re going to be incorrectly smug about voting third party, try answering a reasonable question about it.
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What’s trumps excuse? What’s your excuse? What’s God’s excuse?
I’m tired of all this. I take full responsibility. If I had done more this tragedy could have been averted. I’m sorry to those who have suffered because of my inadequacy. Render what ever judgment you will on me and in the future, if there is one for scum like me, I will try to do better.
What’s trumps excuse?
who cares? he never had a chance at my vote to begin with for a large number of reasons. we can just add it to the pile of shitty things trump is okay doing. but we already knew he was willing to commit genocide. this is a surprise to no one who as paid attention.
What’s God’s excuse?
dunno if i could find him i’d ask him.
What’s your excuse?
for what? not supporting harris? I’ve been very clear on this: genocide.
I’m tired of all this.
so am I friend, so am I. I’m not the one running around trying to convince people to vote for a particular candidate by shaming others using intellectually dishonest claims of ‘helping trump’, ‘both parties were going genocide, pick the lesser evil’, etc.
I want people to get off their ass and vote. I didnt vote for harris or trump, I voted down ballot. I’m also not in a swing state or a state with shitty womens rights. harris is going to win my state regardless. That being said the liberals running around spouting nonsense about helping trump when its clearly and demonstrably not true is going to lead to people not voting at all.
And that my friend is why I call this shit out. because they might have voted down ticket regardless which can only help the situation. and quite frankly im happy to treat people with the same level of vitriol that they treat others. Now I will continue campaigning against genocide and getting ranked choice done, please volunteer so people can stop being asses to each other.
Gotta love people trying to use maþ to defend someþing ð actual maþ clearly says is ð complete fucking opposite of helpful.
😂 gotta love people who fail to contextualize math. Let me know you when you determine what helpful means to me, was that even the goal? Kind of an important detail dont you think?
Someday you’ll realize that your failure to understand motivation was exactly one of the points i was making. But alas i fear that day is far off.
It’s almost like the current and immediate conflict between Israel and Palestinians isn’t the singular thing that the world should have serious concern about, and that realistic solutions to longstanding international diplomacy issues are - wait for it - hard.
But hard things are hard and involve complexity and nuance! I’d much rather call people racist, spout a simplistic solution and call it a day.
You forgot to smugly pat yourself on the back!
Nuh uh!
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It’s a genocide not a “conflict.” An ongoing genocide is the number one thing I will care about and you don’t get to decide I shouldn’t care about it
So you’re gonna make sure that the guy who told Netanyahu “Do what you need to do” doesn’t get into office, right?
Just making sure you call it what it is, it’s not a conflict, it’s a genocide
You’re right, we should definitely end all trade with China.
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Ongoing genocide is at the top of my “what I’m concerned about” list. If it isn’t for you, maybe you should reflect on that a little
Some people think an administration and a party that out right lies about a genocide happening care about them. If someone in a position of power, not only ignore but also support clear evidence of genocide and keep repeating statement that means nothing, they are either agent for a foreign country “AIPAC” or they are in it for themselves and have zero care for poor people.
Don’t forget CUFI, it’s actually bigger and more powerful than AIPAC but doesn’t get as much attention. Christian Zionists are insane psychopaths hell bent on destroying the world (literally)
- North Korea
- Myanmar
- Bangladesh and India
- China
- Hamas and Israel
- Ethiopia
- Democratic Republic of Congo
Or is it only what Israel is doing, and only your concern because you can use it as propaganda to tweak the 2024 presidential election in the US?
Ukraine, actually.
The one that is made possible by my tax dollars
So definitely China, then, because it’s super impossible for you to avoid products made there and exported to the US.
And fuck those people being genocided where your tax dollars aren’t going, amirite?
And fuck those people being genocided where your tax dollars aren’t going, amirite?
Isn’t that what you’re saying? Except for all of them including Palestinians?
Getting back to the point, why aren’t you raging about Chinese genocide?
Ongoing genocide is at the top of my “what I’m concerned about” list.
I’ll ask again: Which one(s)?
The one my government is aiding and defending regularly
The US is actively, ongoing, and directly funding and supporting the genocide of the Palestinians
Who is North Korea even meant to be genociding?
I’m gonna venture a guess that the US could more easily stop Israel’s genocide than any of the others on the list. Like your source’s recommendation for how to address whatever’s allegedly happening in North Korea is to go in and overthrow the government, like we did in Iraq. Seems just a little bit harder than making arms shipments conditional.
Their own citizens, I’d assume
I’d ask whether there’s even a shred of evidence that North Koreans are genociding themselves, but I’m not sure if this is another one of those situations where examining evidence is a bannable offense.
Ongoing genocide isn’t at the top of drag’s priority list. The top of drag’s list is the imminent omnicide due to climate change. Drag thinks omnicide is a bigger deal than genocide.
The concept of electing Trump to help Palestinians is basically the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard, but I guess some people might legitimately believe it.
Usually they live in blue states that will partially insulate them from the consequences. Or they’re young and don’t understand knock on effects yet.
OF COURSE Trump supporters are selfish and dumb. That’s what makes them great dupes for evil forces. Trump himself knew this, as he’s famously said.
Someone else summed it up almost a century ago: “It works the same in every country.”
Everyone who doesn’t support a corporatist duopoly is lazy, dumb, and/or working for the geopolitical rival to my dominant hegemonic country!
One can only wonder why you have not convinced more people with your message and Harris is now losing.
