Only one in 10 feel leaving the EU has helped their finances, while just 9% say it has benefited the NHS, despite £350m a week pledge according to new poll
A clear majority of the British public now believes Brexit has been bad for the UK economy, has driven up prices in shops, and has hampered government attempts to control immigration, according to a poll by Opinium to mark the third anniversary of the UK leaving the EU single market and customs union.
The survey of more than 2,000 UK voters also finds strikingly low numbers of people who believe that Brexit has benefited them or the country.
Just one in 10 believe leaving the EU has helped their personal financial situation, against 35% who say it has been bad for their finances, while just 9% say it has been good for the NHS, against 47% who say it has had a negative effect.
Nothing good in human history has ever come from conservatism. Nothing at all.
You mean a backwards looking ideology doesn’t address the needs of society today and in the future?
The “It used to be fine so it still should be” ideology
When in fact it wasn’t fine, it’s just a bigots fever dream
National parks maybe
I think you are confusing conservationism with conservatism. These two topics are completely unrelated. The very first sentence on the wikipedia page for conservationism expresses that.
If you were referring to presidents who most influenced the proliferation of national parks, I think Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt would be the two that are most responsible. As you probably know, both were famously progressive (the opposite ideology of conservatism).
I think you didn’t read much of the page you shared. Conservationism ~ ecology is a 20th modern movement, the origin of it is conservatism of natural resources for industrial use, not preservation of nature. So yes, the origin of conservationism is related to conservatism, the notions evolved to be less related today.
Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive, part of the “progressive era” in US political history. There isn’t a way to spin it such that he can accurately be called a conservative. The conservative position on national parks, at least in the west, would be that they should remain open for resource extraction. We see this at play with the recent bullshit surrounding the Bears Ears National Monument de-designation under Trump and the ongoing effort to allow drilling in the Artic National Wildlife Refuge.
You are simply objectively incorrect.
More straw man arguments, I never called him a conservative.
The conservative position on national parks, at least in the west, would be that they should remain open for resource extraction.
Yes, that’s the point, but also consider that this how it started, before progressive politics made it about nature preservation. Read the Wikipedia page or the quote I have taken have of it if you’re feeling lazy.
You are simply objectively incorrect.
You are simply not trying to understand what I mean because you’d rather confirm the bias you have formed about me when you’ve seen the downvotes on my comments.
Horseshit. I’ve spent literally decades reporting on land-use issues in the rural west. That, together with the reintroduction of wolves in the intermountain west, is kind of my life’s work as a journalist thus far.
I actually don’t even know where to start with how wrong you are.
So the wikipedia page about the history of conservationism is completely wrong? I’m not claiming anything more than what’s on it. Maybe it’s important for your job to read this page.
Everyone saw this coming but still decided to walk off the cliff rather than admit they’d made a bad decision
“What we believe shapes who we are. Belief can bring us salvation or destruction. But when you believe a lie for too long, the truth doesn’t set you free. It tears you apart.”
I spent the first twenty years of my life believing that every piece of gum you swallow stays in you forever 🪦
How many pieces of gum would you say you’ve swallowed over that time?
Pootin and the GRU/IRA were behind the effort mostly waged on social media
Around 35% of the total population actually voted for it, and even then, those people weren’t the ones who decided to push forward despite it clearly being a shit show.
Blame the people responsible, I’m so sick of this lazy “everyone” blanket statements people make about events that have very specific individuals and institutions to blame, all it’s doing is literally letting them get away with it.
Mmmmmm no. This is the justification many trump voters used. It implies voters are completely off the hook for the consequences of their actions and it’s only the ‘scheming criminals’ who fooled them that can be held accountable.
Just as ignorance of the law does not get you out of your speeding ticket, allowing yourself to be fooled as a voter doesn’t absolve you of the poor choice you made with your vote. It’s a collective fuck up. Own it.
The problem with that approach is that just finding a scapegoat doesn’t solve the issue. The Brits and the EU still have to live with the consequences.
The proper way to address this is to analyze what happened and make sure that it will never happen again. If the result of that analysis is that voters are fucking idiots, we somehow have to alleviate that.
You’ll never alleviate that. Most people are dumb as fuck. That’s not inherently a bad thing, but it can be exploited. In the new age of constant misinformation if you want to get people to vote against their own interests you need only start a gas lighting campaign and without too much effort you’ll find success.
No, it’s literally the distraction the likes of Trump use themselves.
It implies that those deliberately using their almost complete power over the legal system, economy, education, and media to manipulate and flat out lie to people, many of who were, also deliberately, made desperate and vulnerable to said manipulation by the very same system in the first place - have nothing to do with the end result. How fucking convenient!
And what exactly am I meant to own? The fact that I voted remain, and did my best to get others to do the same? Are you seriously trying to claim that individuals like myself could ever possibly have more impact than the Murdoch empire? Or David Cameron? Or Boris Johnson? Why the fuck should we own it but not them, when they’re the ones making millions if not billions selling lies and doing “talks” about “what they learned” fucking the country up?
Do I begrudge people (again, the literal minority of the population) who voted leave? Fuck yeah. Do I blame them for brexit? Why should I? They didn’t think it up, they didn’t propose it, they didn’t go ahead with it despite warnings because it would further their career and make them money, they didn’t lie to and manipulate others to get their way. Those in power did. So I fucking blame them, because they are fucking responsible.
The fact that you compare the voters to criminals, rather than those who manipulated them says it all really.
I bet you also blame cancer patients who die from snake oil they fell for, rather than the grifters who sold it to them…
Those in power don’t even need to wash their hands of their actions anymore, people like you literally do it for them. But hey, bootlickers gonna lick boot. Keep blaming powerless individuals for systemic problems, see how that works out for you… ¯\(ツ)/¯
That was clear too, but Conservatives still won a majority and expectedly squashed any chance of a second referendum. We can’t absolve ourselves of all blame when democracy is still a functional tool we have at our disposal. Now even democracy itself is under attack all around the world, and I’m afraid that “not my fault” mentality will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
They did not win a majority.
365 out of 650 seats, 56% majority. It was a record win for them.
Actually only half of all people saw the obvious downsides. The other half said “nuh uh it’ll be great, way better in fact” with no evidence or facts and folks went with that.
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But at least the immigrants have all disappeared! Right?!
It’s funny cause I’m here as an imigrant but leaving cause the place is going to shit. So, success?
Ironically one of the only ways forward for them is to open up immigration to more people. GDP is going to be permanently lower unless they go heavy automation like Japan (requiring a lot of capital that is going to be a lot more expensive post-Brexit), or let a lot more people in.
And the problem with heavy automation, as Japan is finding, is that machines and robots don’t generate the income tax revenue needed to pay for an aging population. Hence Japan is finding it necessary to allow more immigration.
The NHS, wages and civil rights were all on the chopping block of the Tories for decades, and people still voted for them in droves.
Because across the board big and little “c” conservatives place money/profit above all else.
Has neoliberalism done anything good or just a way for fucking over everyone but the rich?
Mostly the rich thing.
To be fair, a lot of places have these exact problems nowadays.
Margaret Thatcher is smiling up from hell.
Just like most informed people predicted.
No shit, Sherlock.
I genuinely asking for some education on Brexit, because I personally thought, and still think it was a terrible decision for the nation, but I am hoping to get a better understanding from real people and not just read articles. I know I can research it, but would like to hear personal opinions/thoughts/etc….
I am a UK citizen, but I was living my teen and mid adult life in Australia. I didn’t get to vote on Brexit as I was not residing on the country at the time, and never thought I would return. Circumstances have changed, and I have now moved back to the UK at the beginning of the year, so I’m in the thick of the Brexit mess now. I can’t comment on what life was like before Brexit, but I am now a citizen of its consequences.
From my limited understanding, and what I really need clarification and advice on is;
Brexit was a campaign point that David Cameron ran on for election. When he won, he called the referendum, but he was opposed to it. Meanwhile, the Brexit campaign was in full swing with lots of misinformation, but Cameron only decided to rally hard in the leading three months up to the vote, failing to properly educate and explain the deal to the public.
The vote was close. Somewhere in the 52%/48%
Cameron stood down
Brexit happened, finalising at the end of 2020
I know there’s a lot of nuance, and I know I’m missing a lot of major information, but is my understanding the very basic gist of what happened?
Thanks for any response
From a continental EU country, I can tell you that Brexit was a shitshow from beginning to the end. The Leave campaign was clearly helped by the same Russian bots that helped Trump get the US presidency. Then, May added confusion to the shock and frustration. People kept saying lies, like it is possible to keep the common market benefits while cherry picking which regulation to follow. Then came Johnson and his lunatic demands, like creating an independent judicial body that would rule any future disagreement on the deal between UK and the EU. Then the constant whining and bullying about fisheries and goods transportation. The UK had been a beacon of hope, heart and decency for the whole 20st Century. Brexit has made it a sinister clown in Europe.
Thank you for comment. These points you mention really illustrate the absolute clusterfuck it has become.
Annoyingly, I believe in democracy and can’t get angry that it happened. It went to the people. The people voted. But damn it was a joke from the beginning, full of lies and deception. Sadly the UK citizens are suffering from this, but hopefully things get better sooner. I’ll always be the eternal optimist.
Good for you mate!
Calm down with the good old times, India gained its independence in 1947.
With a bloody war after the Brits left. Meanwhile, most countries had a go at dictatorship (Italy and Germany of course but also Spain, Greece, the Vichy régime in France,…), East Europe was under Soviet rule, France had a colonial war in Indochina, another in Algeria…
I’m not sure how being occupied by Soviets really counts as being the bad guy, tbh.
Brits and any other colonial power who randomly cut land according to their greed have huge responsibility in wars following decolonization.
The fishing thing is a good example of how Brexit was handled. Fishing has been stirred up by the media for decades causing some strong feelings against the French and Europe. While fishing is pretty meaningless for the average person it became important because people who read certain newspapers thought it was important. That, to me, seems like the backbone of Brexit. Shite from newspapers.
I’m convinced all the talk about fishing was to stir up these feelings in the public and use it to the politicians will. Raising it with the EU was a message to the people that their concerns are being addressed. Illusion of the people having power.
Speaking to people who voted to leave I had answers like fishing given. Other answers were that people didn’t like talking orders from Brussels, that was more common than fishing. Some racist comments (some REALLY racist). And one person claiming after Brexit he will get gold capped milk back (apparently the EU banned his favourite milk, and that alone was worth leaving the EU…). I know a few people who didn’t know what to vote for so went with the “default” to leave. I’m assuming they meant they just followed the crap in the news and didn’t apply proper thought.
This media bollocks is still happening now. I saw the other day an article about being able to buy wine in pints. Sigh.
It really was a shit show and still is!
Yeah, that’s about right. And now the Brits are paying the price.
You mentioned Cameron seeming to be a bit limp in opposing it and actually campaigning on it originally. Some interesting context
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/07/david-cameron-offshore-trusts-eu-tax-crackdown-2013
Thank you for the article. The more I learn about it, the more fucked up it truly is. I had a basic understanding of bad it was from a simple perspective, but the more you learn, the more messed up it becomes. I really hope there is something good to come from how monumentally messed up the situation is.
I’m getting used to GDPR regulations in my line of work I haven’t had to deal with… primarily with how my industry uses AI transcription for media. We have to be very careful with which transcription services that reside outside of the UK are used. so if for example, we use an S3 based transcription service in the cloud that is based in France, we might come into issues, even though they might be GDPR compliant. It’s all a bit of a mess, but once you know what to do it is okay, but to cut through the red tape to get an answer can be laborious because so many people need to agree to the request
That’s just one little thing, out of hundreds of impactful changes because of Brexit. It really was a ballsup
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9% say it has benefited the NHS
Are 9% of the UK shareholders of plantir or something? Cunts!
I don’t understand why it’s a fucking opinion poll when there is actual data to examine.
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You should go crawling on your knees and beg the EU to take you back, and farage, rees-mogg and boris should pay for the entire thing.
All the while being pissed off that no, you won’t get all the exceptions you had the last time. And yes, you’ll have to ditch £ for € eventually*.
* there’s a pretty stupid loophole that allows you to postpone adopting Euro indefinitely, though I feel even the fact that officially they’re agreeing to adopt the Euro will be a low blow for the pride of UK people.
I still wonder why they made that referendum happen in the first place.
A lot of Rubles
I don’t get what you mean by “rubles”
It’s Russian currency, I’m guessing they’re saying Russia had a part in helping Brexit pass.
This is unfortunately a well documented fact at this point.
That’s honestly pretty creepy.
Guess where the money for the bus came from? Brexit will be remembered as one of Putins biggest triumphs.
Russian money lol
Yeah, I know that. But why?
I expect there’s an enormous amount of things you fail to grasp.
The Tories were afraid that the Brexiteers would split off from their party, and the “first past the post” would kill them off. So they thought that showing those Brexiteers that their idea had no majority.
So now they will be killed off by FPTP in 2024. Helped them lots, and killed the countries’ future.
The Tories were scared of the rise of the right wing UK Independence Party (UKIP), particularly their leader Nigel Farage. In order to try to stop losing voters to UKIP David Cameron (the prime minister) promised a referendum on EU membership thinking they would not vote to leave. It back fired, he resigned, and the shit show began. The vultures descended to make political and monetary opportunities despite the damage it would do to the country.
The vultures descended to make political and monetary opportunities despite the damage it would do to the country.
This is the tl;dr of every capitalist nation in history.
Power grab and racism
Yeah it’s well earned. Enjoy, Brits.
Wasn’t it more xenophobia? The word racism is thrown around so much it has almost lost all its meaning. Most of the immigrants were white.
Why racism though?
we must stop all those damn immigrants
Admitting you’re wrong and acknowledging evidence is project fear, correct? Am I doing this right? Tories?
Well obviously it was a failure and always was going to be a failure. Whereas before there was frictionless trade, travel, employment, living, there is now an ever expanding wall of bullshit and red tape. Getting goods to and from Europe is subject to import duties and delays that just kills trade - why would a Spanish company buy widgets from the UK when a supplier in Germany can supply them faster and reliably without any customs redtape?
It will take the UK years to form other trade deals, none of which will be remotely as favourable as they would get with negotiating power of the entire EU behind them. There have already been noises in the UK press about having to take food from the US which would fail EU standards - bleached chicken, GM crops, growth hormones etc. And that’s because when the US comes to the negotiating table they’re going to bend the UK over and screw them. And China, India and the rest of the world will be lining up for some sloppy seconds.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A clear majority of the British public now believes Brexit has been bad for the UK economy, has driven up prices in shops, and has hampered government attempts to control immigration, according to a landmark poll by Opinium to mark the third anniversary of the UK fully leaving the EU single market and customs unions.
The survey of more than 2,000 UK voters also finds strikingly low numbers of people who believe that Brexit has been of benefit to them or the country.
Just one in 10 people (10%) believe leaving the EU has helped their personal financial situation, against 35% who say it has been bad for their finances, while just 9% say it has been good for the NHS against 47% who say it has had a negative effect.
James Crouch, head of policy and public affairs at Opinium, said the perception of Brexit being handled badly and having had negative effects on various aspect of UK life appeared to be spreading: “Public discontent at how Brexit has been handled by the government continues, with perceived failings even in areas previously seen as a potential benefit from leaving the EU.
“Half (51%) of Leave voters now think that Brexit has been bad for the UK’s ability to control immigration, piling even more pressure on an issue the government is vulnerable on.
“This shift in sentiment may be particularly stark among the ‘red wall’ voters who rallied most eagerly to Johnson’s banner four years ago, but have been most exposed to rising bills and collapsing public services since.
The original article contains 691 words, the summary contains 259 words. Saved 63%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Why did the British owner class allow for this to happen? Have there been any big privatisation efforts after Brexit? Did they hope the NHS would crumble?
I find it even more uninspiring since it happened right at the time of a Covid. Even those who wanted it now hate it.
Better late than never. Kind of.
