Trump would do it anyway. It is just a question of how many people die in the opening weeks of a massacre. People should get armed now, so that there are fewer innocent lives lost when the inevitable happens.
It’s funny to see all the liberals pissing their panties lol. I only wish the left wingers in my own country were half as afraid
Omar gets it. This will escalate and escalate and escalate… This is the fascist playbook happening before our very eyes.
There is no good outcome to this situation, and it will affect the entire country before the midterms.
Arm yourselves. Now.
Here is my issue with the opposition and the “stay peaceful” cries from the Democratic politicians.
They have to do something radical in response to the violence of the federal government if they want individual citizens to stay peaceful! Omar should be calling on Tim Walls to use state power to purge ICE from the state.
Does this escalate? Yes, it absolutely does. But it’s an escalation of state power in response to federal crimes. Is it legal? Who the fuck cares?! Create a constitutional crisis! If you don’t want citizens getting violent, you don’t say bull shit like “oh, they want us to be violent. They’ll use it as a reason to be more violent”. BECAUSE THEY ALREADY ARE?! They are already being fucking Nazis.
Like, I’m sorry. But how the fuck do you think we got to door to door “papers please” checks? How did we get to the cold blooded execution of an American citizen live in 4k?
Was it because of all this violent leftist resistance? Fuck no! How are we even talking about that like it’s a meaningful thing?! We got here because there has been ZERO meaningful resistance within the political system that you are telling us to obey.
Fucking do something that actually takes balls. Fascist are fucking pussies and they back off at the first sign of resistance. Why? Because they are not popular. They need to keep up the illusion of power by walking away from every person that actually fights back.
If you don’t want violent citizens you have to actually use the power of the state to respond to the violence that they are being subjected to. Otherwise, you’re telling the victim to not fight back, only because the bully will “make an example of them”. But you’re the fucking Teacher and the Bully is the school principal. Fucking do something!
When the Teachers only action is to tell the students to “not fight back” as the Principal abuses every student. The Teacher is ALSO the problem.
This is on .world, so I want to preface this by saying; I don’t promote violence, and this isn’t a call to action for anything violent. I’m merely dropping a note about historical events.
Women didn’t get their rights to vote by peacefully protesting to their husbands, fathers, or parliament. Of course, they did all this. They engaged politically to the extent they could. They wrote letters and protested. They were mocked and ridiculed for their simple requests that their voices should be heard too.
More than that though, some people decided that they needed to be so loud that their voices couldn’t be left unheard. Historically, rights have been taken away from people with ease. People clawing rights back from their oppressors is rarely as easy, nor as peaceful.
People have died and gone missing. Peaceful days are already over, and anyone who believes otherwise is lying to themselves.
Exactly. If they want people not to form up an armed response to this then they need to use the actual tools that they have to substitute for that. States have armed bodies that are specifically designed to protect the rights of their citizens. If their call to “stay peaceful” doesn’t come with a promise to USE those resources then it means they are on the wrong side.
For all your talk of violence you are very non-specific about where and when you believe it will be best used.
Me, I’ll be exact. If someone wants to arm up to protect their home, I’m all for it. But violent protests in the streets? No. They’re waiting for that.
Name one violent protest in the US in the last ten years that you’d call a success. Doesn’t even matter which side: J-6 to Charlottesville; George Floyd to Gaza. The violent ones get shut down and disgust fencesitters who just want to live their lives; the peaceful ones attract converts and prove force.
You may not be conversant with this principle yet, but physical force before its time is a show of fear and rage, not real strength, and they’re waiting for it. What do you think Cop City is all about? They’ve been planning this for years, and you want to run right into their waiting arms.
No. Real strength is having the self-discipline to weigh the moment, and control emotions to get the best outcome.
Arm your homes, but in the streets protest peacefully.
EDITED TO ADD: In the George Floyd protests of 2020-2023, the two cities that had the most violence were Minneapolis and Portland, Oregon. If you think it’s a coincidence that these two cities were specifically chosen for govt incursion again, you’re naive. Doubly so if you’re unaware that it was NON-VIOLENCE that got the National Guard out of Portland in November. From the first paragraph:
While violent protests did occur in June, they quickly abated due to the efforts of civil law enforcement officers. And since that brief span of a few days in June, the protests outside the Portland ICE facility have been predominately peaceful, with only isolated and sporadic instances of relatively low-level violence, largely between protesters and counter-protesters. When considering these conditions that persisted for months before the President’s federalization of the National Guard, this Court concludes that even giving great deference to the President’s determination, the President did not have a lawful basis to federalize the National Guard under 10 U.S.C. § 12406.
https://www.opb.org/pdf/FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW_1762564569662.pdf
I think you read my comment as somehow promoting violence or even romanticizing it in some way.
There are things I agree with in your comment and things I disagree with. But I don’t think it’s meaningful to discuss that because you seem to have taken my comment in the wrong way from the very start.
I am was not describing what I want to happen, or what works in bringing about radical change (though history tells us that is almost always through some form of violenct resistance). I was simply explaining what happens when a society subject to state violence is backed into a corner. It was almost a plea to not bring our society to that inevitable stage. Something that “protest peacefully” leaders with zero action are contributing to.
I think maybe you should reread my comment with that perspective. Then maybe you’d have a more meaningful response.
I think you may also have a better grasp on it if, instead, you widened your scope a bit more. You seem to be stuck in a very short timeframe of historical reference in which you’re comparing to. You should widen your scope to include the rise of major fascist powers. Limiting yourself to comparing events within your lifetime or even recent American history is definitely limiting your ability to apply historical materialist understanding of what is going on. Though, I do think you are thinking correctly, you are not really able to describe or grasp what is going on fully.
There is no point in telling people to “arm themselves in their homes”. When, inevitably, after 100s of armed people are killed in their homes the remaining armed people will realize that, they are stronger together. And waiting for the state violence to come to their door is just puting them at a disadvantage for no reason other than some vague notion of a moral society and state that, clearly, no longer exists.
When will YOU ask yourself: Why am I advocating for people to defend themselves, but only after it reaches them personally while they are alone in their home?
Because that time WILL come for you. It just hasn’t yet. But for many people that have experienced the state violence first hand. It already has. And those that live through it aren’t going to fight back alone in their home. They are going to get organized.
You’re puting an arbitrary restriction on resistance to state violence that does nothing but help to make that state violence easier to carry out.
Arbitrary restriction? I’m not restricting anything. Everyone reading this is free to do whatever they want. For now, anyway.
What is this tremendous power I have to stop you from going out and antagonizing ICE yourself?
Again, name any violent protest in recent history that has done anything but made matters worse. Even Minneapolis and Portland, the two American cities with the greatest violence in 2020-2023 have learned that violence doesn’t work. That’s why they’re not going that route this time.
When will YOU ask yourself: Why am I advocating for people to defend themselves, but only after it reaches them personally while they are alone in their home?
When will YOU ask yourself why you have to put words that I did not say in my mouth for you to have a rebuttal? Why are you making vague claims to historical precedent without ever being specific? Why are you widening the scope of what I actually said to cover ideas and positions I did not state and do not actually possess?
I said exactly what I meant to say and I stopped there. Again, you and anyone else are free to go out and harass ICE yourself if you think that’s so wise, but you are dead wrong to incite others to do it for you, or to even suggest that it is a winning strategy when if it were you’d be able to cite at least one recent example of that.
You have nothing, or you’d have brought it already. And you can’t, because it just doesn’t exist. For myself, I linked to the actual court decisions where non-violent protests ARE working, TODAY.
You’re not arguing in good faith. I said what I have to say. Good night.
You spent the entire first comment explaining how “it’s not time yet” and then ended with and advocated for not fighting back.
What is this tremendous power I have to stop you from going out and antagonizing ICE yourself?
First, we’re discussing what you are advocating for mate. No one with a brain thinks that you individually have power. You’re playing dumb to avoid standing on your original point.
Second, if you think people are going out and antagonizing ICE, you are hopeless. The fact that you even use that word makes it clear you don’t take seriously (or don’t understand) the degree of state violence that is being done. There is no antagonizing an invasion of what are essentially SS troops.
Arm your homes, but in the streets protest peacefully.
Not sure why you’re trying to ignore the entire thesis and conclusion of your own comment.
When will YOU ask yourself why you have to put words that I did not say in my mouth
I think it’s pretty clear I didn’t put words in your mouth. I’m literally just quoting you mate. You’re the one backing down with “people can do what they want”.
The difference between our comments is this:
YOU are ADVOCATING for something. You are telling people to not be violent in response to state violence. “It’s not time yet”. Here, look at this hyperfocused example of Portland. Ignoring all of the violent resistance that occured in Portland at that time.
YOU are telling people to only resort to self defense on an individual basis if they are attacked inside their homes.
I AM explaining why what is happening will inevitably lead to individual acts of violence if no action is taken by the state government in response to the federal governments violence.
I AM saying (not advocating because I would never ever call for it because that’s I’m sure against the rules here) that organizing that individual violence into what essentially an armed resistance is a much more effective form of resistance.
You, clearly haven’t experienced that violence first hand. It’s why you keep telling people to go protest peacefully. If you went to a protest, you’d realize that is not something that is even possible now in Minnesota. You’re standing on the sidelines telling the quarterback what to do, when you’ve never even touched a football.
Go to Minnesota. Take a pepper bomb to the face. Then tell me how long you’ll keep going back and being “peaceful” as they add 1000 more troops today.
I am interested in learning which american peaceful protests have been successful that were not backed by force in the past 10 years?
Actually what american protests at all have been successful in the past 10 years at actually accomplishing their goals and not settling for 1% of their goals as a “compromise” for the theater?
Maybe we can extend it to 30 years or 40 years just for fun?
I am interested in learning which american peaceful protests have been successful that were not backed by force in the past 10 years?
Did I not just link the final order booting the National Guard out of Portland, Oregon? Portland protested, non-violently, for weeks against having the National Guard there. BECAUSE the protests were non-violent, the judge ordered them out.
It’s right in front of you. It’s not even something I am claiming, it’s literally what the judge said. All you had to do was read the first paragraph, man. I even quoted the text, but you couldn’t even be bothered with that.
Same in Chicago. The National Guard presence was halted by a TRO (temporary restraining order) and then when the govt lost that on appeal, Trump withdrew the NG troops there and redeployed them to New Orleans. Here’s the full order:
https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/46a35c5459e8b073/66434a34-full.pdf
I know it’s killing you to even acknowledge its existence, but the proof is already there. The National Guard is out of both Chicago and Portland BECAUSE of peaceful protests.
I brought my receipts. You don’t have jack shit.
Do you think that’s over? What a dumb take. It’s like watching your enemy do a tactical retreat and thinking you’ve won the war. Portland is literally filled with ICE today. Do you think it worked? Seriously.
It’s the equivalent of saying “all we needed to do was protest and elect FDR”. And ignoring all of the workers that armed themselves and took over factory floors by force. You have horse blinders on so you can still believe the lie of a whitewashed and fabricated version of MLK. I’m sure you also don’t believe that Malcolm X and the Black Panthers had any positive impact during the civil rights movement.
So people should not protest?
Both. The Civil Rights movement only worked because they had both the MLKs of the world AND the Malcom Xs.
What is stopping him from just declaring it anyways?
While we are at it: What additional power would that give his goons? They can already enforce curfews, ban assembly, demand documentation, ignore the fourth amendment, and just straight up murder anyone they want. What does martial law give them beyond that?
The Supreme Court did, eventually, tell him he can’t just send the military in to brutalize people whenever he wants. But they also signaled that if there was an actual insurrection they would allow it. So I think there is something to this logic.
But it still leaves the question of how to stop fascism more generally open. I am thinking an organized, mass economic disruption is the only realistic option but that will be very difficult for people who are just getting buy. Certainly we should all cut our spending to a bare minimum. If we can pool our resources to provide strike funds that would also help but it might be tough to get that much buy in.
Their response to having access to the military cut off was to simply militarize ICE into a paramilitary group with powers that are more broad than even the military would get for such enforcement. With the advantage that ICE can be staffed entirely with fascist friendly true believers while the military is mostly staffed with just regular humans.
If they deployed the military as police enforcers it would instantly become the most ethnically diverse and lowest paid police organization in the country. They have to have considered that.
Yeah. Were already fucked and the way i see it, theres no more possible peaceful solutions.
He does like to declare things and lies through his teeth. You bring up a good point. Fear only works if you let it. Don’t buy the ticket, just take the ride. This is not going to end bloodlessly.
What additional power would that give his goons?
Its not automatic with martial law, but has been granted along with martial law imposition at times in US history: suspension of the writ of habeas corpus
“The right to challenge one’s detention before a judge, known as the writ of habeas corpus, is a principle of the legal system that serves as a safeguard against unlawful imprisonment. It requires the government to provide a valid reason for holding a person in custody, preventing arbitrary detention.”
In other words, today you can be locked up, but the Constitution requires you have rights to go before a judge and challenge your incarceration, and the judge can choose to set you free.
With the suspension you can still get locked up, but now they can just let you rot without any legal recourse to get you out.
Shame we already lost that one. Few, if any, of the people getting picked up by ICE are ending up in front of a judge, including the US citizens.
There already is martial law.
Armed goons breaking in doors. No warrants
Murdering observers and calling them terrorists
Disappearing people including Us citizens
Attacking schools.
WE ARE ALREADY IN MARTIAL LAW
Right but if everyone stays peaceful then the de facto martial law won’t become declared martial law.
And this is clearly beneficial because of all these benefits of being under de facto martial law instead of declared martial law like
- hmm
- well let’s see
- there should probably be some kind of benefits here
Not convinced yet? Well you see there’s also a host of benefits you get from quietly obeying and surrendering your rights like
- getting shot by unaccountable federal officers
- having your door kicked in for exercising your rights to free speech
- emboldening the fascists by showing there’s nothing you are willing to do to defend yourself
If everyone stays peaceful, surely the jackbooted thugs who delight in hurting and killing citizens and immigrants alike will… continue doing that.
Does Minnesota have a castle doctrine?
According to Wikipedia, on paper yes but in practice the duty to retreat has been upheld in case law.
Even if you have a jurisdiction with rock solid castle doctrine, using that as a defense for shooting at law enforcement is a perilous legal strategy.
What’s the alternative then when they go door to door armed, forcing their way in to make you disappear?
If they’re just breaking down doors on anonymous tip, how long till people start ambushing them? They know they don’t have the data to back up a warrant, so they clearly aren’t putting much time checking where they’re invading.
But if there’s not enough agitation they’ll keep provoking…
It’s like telling a kid “the bully just wants a reaction” ignoring that the bully isn’t just calling names, he’s causing serious and permanent harm.
They’re breaking into random houses with no warrants, murdering people on the streets, not allowing local law enforcement to investigate anything ICE does…
What the fuck is the endgame to “don’t react” besides “they do anything they want”?
Right now in 2026, who is going to reign in trump so the people don’t have to?
She’s not saying “don’t react”, she’s saying “this is the only explanation for this behavior”.
She’s not saying “don’t give the bully ammo”, she’s saying “this is bullying behavior”
Please read articles and not just headlines
The people have to do it.
Just in case you need it for a crossword puzzle or something later:
With a g, it means to rule as a king.
Trump reigns right now.
Without a g it’s the control straps for a horse, or using said controls.
Congress ought to rein him in.
Maybe they meant “who’s going to rule over Trump?” and to that I say: the people, when they finally wake up.
There’s no way he knows how to spell it. Trump will declare Marshall Law.
He is desperate to suspend the Midterm Election because he knows the Dems are going to win in a bloodbath, and get control of investigative committees with subpoena and arrest powers.
Even during the shamefully feckless Biden administration, they put Bannon and Ron Varo in jail for defying their subpoenas. With a new freshman crop of angry, motivated Dems screaming for MAGA blood, they will be much more aggressive this time around. We may see impeachments not only if Trump, but also Noem, RFK Jr, Hegseth, Thomas, Alito, etc. And with the presidential election coming up, there may be ambitious MAGAs who want their shot at the Big Chair, and will cross the aisle to bury this administration, and clear the decks for their own shot. Trump can’t allow that to happen.
So he will TRY to suspend elections, but that is a BRIGHT RED LINE, that must never be crossed. We have never suspended an election, not even during the Civil War, because it literally means the official end of American Democracy. He cannot be allowed to do that, under any circumstances.
And let’s say he cancels the election. Elections are a state-managed process, so what if the Blues states don’t respect his suspension, and hold their elections anyway? What if Red states balk at having their election rights removed, and decide to defy Trump and have their elections?
What will happens if the House flips, and a new crop of freshman Dem reps show up to be sworn in by the new House Majority Leader. Trump will order Mike Johnson to hold the line, but will he be able to?
We hear loose talk of “Constitution Crisis” all the time, but this would be an actual Constitutional Crisis, one of the biggest in American history.
And let’s say he cancels the election. Elections are a state-managed process, so what if the Blues states don’t respect his suspension, and hold their elections anyway?
Do you legitimately not see what the plan is?
-
Declare fraud or whatever by blue state governments.
-
Say Blue state governments refuse to work with fed.
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Install puppet leaders in blue state governments to “save the states”
-
Puppet leader might cancel elections, but more likely they do all they can to rig it either thru voter suppression and shutting down certain polls, or just ignore actual results and declaring trump gets all the state electoral votes.
What will happens if the House flips, and a new crop of freshman Dem reps show up to be sworn in by the new House Majority Leader.
How is that a question either?
They just won’t bring the House in session to seat the new congress, just like they did with that special election seat.
They’re not using Congress to do things, trump is doing things and they’re obstructing congress from holding him accountable.
“No congress” is their goal. Some people can keep desks, but they’re not doing any type of governing. They want the president and his unelected appointees to just be able to do anything. Fully consolidated power, and we’re fucked because for 30 years neoliberals were pushing consolidation too.
You’re still expecting MAGA to work inside a system when all they’ve done is try to blow the system up. They don’t want any representation.
That’s the point. By making them stick to the Constitution, they have to deliberately ignore it and make up their own rules, and that makes it much harder for even a friendly Supreme Court to agree with them.
Make them dance.
By making them stick to the Constitution
What the actual fuck…
You think they’re being held by the constitution?
That’s not even getting into how the “difficulties” it creates is just SC clerks from Ivy League schools have to work more unpaid hours to write up some bullshit justification…
Of course not, but you don’t just give them an out, make them actually, literally violate the Constitution.
Then dare SCOTUS to defend it.
make them actually, literally violate the Constitution.
They not only are, they have been, consistently…
Then dare SCOTUS to defend it.
They do, again consistently…
You think that is somehow accomplishing something, even tho I just said;
just SC clerks from Ivy League schools have to work more unpaid hours to write up some bullshit justification…
Is anything I’m saying making sense to you?
No, it’s not. I’m supposed to surrender American Democracy because of some imaginary law clerks? WTF?
What you’re saying to do, is what’s been happening and is happening and won’t do anything to prevent it from continuing…
Your plan is “surrender”
But at this point I don’t think I’m going to help you understand anything, and frankly I don’t think it’s worth the effort
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Stop electing people from the same generation year after year after decade after decade. They won’t let go, think the world is owed to them and are feckless assholes that would rather see the world burn than leave anything for anybody else. Get em the fuck out of office, across the damn country.
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