This does unfortunately happen multiple times per day. Sometimes it’s smaller incidents where the tram driver can get out and collapse the car’s mirror. Other times the owner of the car comes out of a nearby house after the tram used its bell extensively (like today) and moves the car. And then there are times when police needs to get involved to tow the car which often takes upwards of 1 hour.
The truly infuriating part is that if the tram damages a poorly parked car, the transportation company will have to pay the damages. Poorly parked vehicles never get fined and the owners will only need to pay if the car ends up getting towed.
Why do we accept that drivers sabotage a city’s public transport infrastructure like this?
Gotta fine that shit, that is unacceptable, wtf. Weak af.
In Vienna, over the last decade the authorities have removed hundreds of parking spots like this where cars repeatedly blocked the tram. Now, the number of times it happens is very low, since the spots that remain should be very easy to Park in a way that doesnt block
According to my social media feed from yesterday everyone in Vienna has to park like this
“Wild car spotted drinking water from a canal”
~ source National Geographic
Surprised. In Belgium it is a minimum of 150 for the first parking violation.
Going up by 100 each time.
Blocking the tram is a more severe one, 400+400 what, Euro I assume?
Waffles
400 Watt
400 holmes, the british sequel to 300.
Blocking the tram should absolutely carry a crippling fine.
if the tram damages a poorly parked car, the transportation company will have to pay the damages. Poorly parked vehicles never get fined and the owners will only need to pay if the car ends up getting towed.
THAT is exactly the problem.
The politicians made sure the Law was set-up to benefit car owners and screw the rest, similarly to how drivers will get a mere fine when they kill somebody with their car whilst distracted (say, looking at their mobile phones) in situations which if they didn’t do it behind the wheel of a car would be treated as involuntary homicide (what Americans call manslaughter) and carry a jail sentence, because they didn’t have due care and attention whilst controlling a dangerous piece of machinery.
I once heard (not really sure if it’s true, but damn I would love if it was) about how in Switzerland they had this car tow which was simply a big grab claw - similar to those in junkyards - that just grabbed irregularly park cars from above to put it in the tow truck and, well, any damage to the vehicle was the responsability of the car owner for having parked the car like that
Have something like that and this problem you’re describing (in, judging by the picture, Bremen in Germany) would solve itself within a month as news travelled of car owners doing this shit and getting their car trashed. Then again, German mainstream politicians absolutelly are in the pockets of the car industry (all it takes is to look at how the handling of the Emissions Scandal was basically “blame some random Engineer”, or check which companies get the most subsidies in Germany), so don’t expect pro-people legilstation if it goes against the interests of the car lobby.
what Americans call manslaughter
Yes and no. We use homicide too, but homicide just means one person was killed by another person. That’s used more in medical situations or law enforcement reports. Manslaughter is a legal term and comes in when the state/courts are doing the whole charging part. Then there’s the whole manslaughter vs murder that trips people up too since those are both legal terms. I believe the main difference between them is intent.
That’s the impression I had.
My impression having lived in a couple of places in Europe (including Britain) is that legally speaking what the American Legal System understands as “Manslaughter” is in European legal systems called “Involuntary Killing”, “Involuntary Homicide” or even “Involuntary Murder” (this latter is is confusing when talking to Americans because, if I undestand it correctly, in the American Legal System “Murder” cannot be involuntary as it explicitly means a purposeful killing) or the equivalent in the local language.
Anyways, my point is that people who kill other people not on purpose but as a result of being careless when they are in control of something which can easilly kill if not handled with due care and attention, if they do it whilst driving seldom if ever get charged with a charge of killing somebody due to not being as carefull as they are legally mandated to be, but instead usually just get traffic violating charge which is usually just a fine.
If you kill a person in germany by car, because you neglected your lawful duties (Sorgfaltspflichten) it is usually a case of §222 penal code (StGB fahrlässige Tötung/ negligent homicide), you’ll get a penalty ranging from “Geldstrafe” (fine) up to five years, e. g. based on your neglect as with most other cases. In very specific cases (DUI, etc) the penalty for drivers is up to five years for endangerment alone! Implying a german bonus for manslaughter by car seems - ceterus paribus - not true.
But how often does it actually happen in practice?
What I’ve seen in other countries in Europe where indeed people can theoretically be charged like that, is that even in extreme cases (for example, a guy in Portugal which in the middle of Lisbon run over and killed a pedestrian on a zebra crossing when the traffic sign was red for driver, because he was looking at his mobile phone) they almost never get anything but a fine (this specific guy got away with a €125 fine).
In practice - for example some years ago in England - I’ve seen harder prosecutions against cyclists than I’ve seen against car drivers.
This scenario - in germany - would be 200 Euro for the citation (“Bußgeld”), just for using the phone while driving. The combined charges for negligent homicide should be much higher.
I don’t see a car parked on the tracks in the photo
It doesn’t have to be physically on the track to impede operation. Better phrasing would’ve been it was in the path of the tram, I suppose.
Big fine + towed car. Even those car brains will learn.
and stop paying for damages ffs that’s crazy
Expensive tow, impound or seize car, big fine, jail
They’ll learn a lot faster. Tow trucks will start to line up to tow cars too.
One of the few good uses I saw of privatisation was private tow trucks working for the State - I’ve lived in a couple of countries in Europe and never saw faster towing of vehicles irregularly parked than in Britain were that service had been privatised.
Virtually speaking the tow trucks were pretty much lined up to tow cars.
Probably helps if the Law makes sure the towing fees are high and the costs for the damage from towing are on the car owner.
Ontario has this on the 401 highway in Toronto. The trucks park and wait. As soon as a car breaks down they rush out to get the tow. 1k to be towed off the road, then milage. Its mandated somewhere.
I’ve heard biker gangs are big in this business. Not sure why.
Same in Zagreb. Recently one car blocked the traffic for over an hour.
AchBremen.txt
This is particularly bad in this German city, the city state even won a court case that allows on-curb parking, because the city is too afraid of car owners and too little of pedestrians, wheelchair users and bicycle riders.
The sound of the bell makes me so angry.
Sometimes, the tram passengers group up and move small cars out of the tracks manually.
Try Munich. It’s insane.
I mean not so much the tram block parking but the way the whole city is run. BMW, the IAA, the public transport… Ugh.
This seems to be in germany: There is already a 70 Euro fine for parking on tram tracks, someone has to report it though… Additionally the driver of the car is liable for civil damages which can reach thousands of euros, including full payment for alternative transportation by busses etc.
You can argue as long as you want: In every one of those cars is probably an inconsiderate person but the whole concept of a tram is flawed. There is a practically unlimited amount of possible infractions, everyone makes a bad judgement at some time, but the tram simply cannot deviate like a few centimetres to the left. If you want a useful system on tracks you need to reduce complexity and burrow it underground or lift it up on stilts. And even then, every fault is potentially a dead stop of whole parts of the system. And i do not even account for the A****les who just don’t give a shit or act on purpose.
One might call for more repelling, more drastic measures, but one simply cannot prevent the simple everyday errors and lapses.
just equip each tram with one of those parking aide roombas they got in China and most of these cars should be a 5 minute fix imo
The fault is not with the tram. It’s allowing cars on the tram tracks. Ban that, and the problem is fixed.
Most trams I encountered cannot leave their tracks, except that specific Chinese one. Regardless of circumstances they usually are hope- and helplessly stuck. Switch is stuck? Well, every tram driver gets out to set it manually. Accident (even without cars)? Well it’s not like you will drive around the site. Broken catenary? Out of luck, again. The system “tram” can hardly mitigate any faults or emergencies, therefore it is flawed IMHO.
btw: Cars are not allowed to park (vulgo: banned) on the tram tracks. There is also plenty of tracks, where cars are not even allowed to drive on (seceded, underground or elevated).
Lol I cracked. Thank you for sharing
The transportation company is not responsible if passengers break the windows of the car and flatten their tires. I guess doing this a couple of times and the newspapers reporting crazy team users destroying cars on the path of the train will fix the issue.
In Belgium it works like this: If the tram could seemingly pass, but the tram driver was mistaken, then the car owner + insurance has to pay the tram company for the damage/delay/towing. If the tram driver has to stop and wait for the car to get towed, then the car owner + their insurance have to pay for towing costs + the tram delay. In theory anyway: I don’t know hard the enforcement is, maybe they only try to go after delay costs if they are significant.
Dutch article with 2 examples, first one with car at fault, 2nd one with bus at fault: https://mijnverkeersongeval.be/nl/faq_categories/aansprakelijkheid/bijzondere-gevallen/tram
One word: Tramdozer
Or any car abandoned on the tracks becomes public property and is auctioned off to improve the trams
Ooh. Yeah, no i withdraw mine - do that instead.
The cars are impounded and then used in a demolition derby, proceeds from that go to the trams.
The lack of a fine for that is insane.
The lack of “just fucking ram it” is insane.
It’s eatablished common law. Park your steam powered velocipede in a right of way and one can suck it.
This is mainly an enforcement problem. If the city simply towed every car that did this, this sort of shit would stop immediately. But of course nobody wants to hurt the precious little feefees of car drivers because they’re very very special little snowflakes.
Agree. In plenty of big EU cities, the tram driver would just call a number, and the car gets towed in 15 minutes. We can’t expect everybody to obey the laws out of kindness to others. For some, enforcement in needed
15 minutes is a way too looooong time for this. A good network has a tram every 5-10 minutes, that’s already a big tram Stau and a lot of missed connections for passengers. There just shouldn’t be street side parking options right next to tram tracks.
I’m surprised there wouldn’t be vulture tow truck drivers looking out for these cars and waiting to tow immediately.
There should be no cars allowed on the tram tracks apart from emergency vehicles, buses, and maybe taxis.
It’s a situation where they’re underplaying the role of a tram, while further glorifying cars. If a car parked in the middle of a car going road there would be outrage and hefty fines. While in this case, it is relatively lightly brushed off.
Yep! Here in Germany many of the big political parties are bought by the car industry and car centric thinking is very widespread. Any measures to limit these issues like cutting free parking spots will cause a big uproar.
If you buy a car, do not buy German. I certainly won’t.
Isn’t this particular issue a city responsibility?
For starters most narrow streets here (Süd-Westen) where the trams go, are tram only or tram+pedestrians in a centre area. But very very rarely tram+cars or trams+bicycles.
The issue seems fining and law enforcement, but the actual error happens way earlier on: tram tracks should never run right next to street car parking spots (they can be next to parking spots but only if cars enter the spots from elsewhere and there is obstacle between tram tracks and car parking spots.
It’s poor design.
And probably city responsibility because I can’t imagine Bundesstraße to be designed like this in the first place, they always optimise for traffic flow and don’t care for a few parking spots more or less, that’s usually more a city admin concern.
If you buy a car, do not buy German. I certainly won’t.
They’re not even that good anymore: see the build quality of the Mercedes EQS: https://youtu.be/XrwZgCLs-zs
Audi seems to have done similar. I have a Q6. It’s been in the shop more than my garage. Had to beg them to get an older q5 loaner cause they kept giving me Q6 loaners which has the same issues. Road noise, shitty charging, last week it just errored and told me to pull over. I had to exit the vehicle for 20 min while it “reset”.
Add that is a privacy nightmare in the USA… next car won’t be a German car made in the last decade.
The BMW can’t even make turn signals work anymore.
It’d be even better for the tram to just push the car put of the way, and then hold the car owner responsible for any damage that results.
Encouraging more law enforcement on Lemmy? Never thought I’d see the day.
You’re confused because your thinking stops at “law enforcement always bad” and goes no further whilst most people here are 2 or 3 levels above that, thinking “how do we use the tools we have to make things better for most people”.
You’re mentally operating at a simplistic superficial level of “thing X good, thing Y bad” like a child, which is of course unsuficient to understand the logical conclusions of those operating at the level of Principles (“what should be done which is best for the greatest number”).
Mind you, populists just looove people who think like you do because they’re so easy to give the run-around.
