That is because in their mind, racism equals with racial prejudice with ill intents for the sake of evil. The moment you have some acceptable reason, be it some old “trauma” or statistics, all while you at least treat “the good ones” a little bit better, you’re okay.
A decade plus ago, I asked these kinds of people to describe what Hitler would have been. They all described a literal saturday morning cartoon villain doing evil for evil’s sake. They were shocked to learn the nazis spread the same greedy Jew stereotypes (among others) to justify their genocide they also believed in. Worst was one of my former history teacher, who said Hitler’s biggest crime was not presenting crime statistics to the population.
Conservatives believe in unequality, in an almost “corpo DEI” fashion celebrating it, except it boils down to stripping women’s rights because “motherhood is beautiful”, and collectively punishing blacks by letting the police to shoot them on sight for “suspicion of crime”.
Bro was being racist literally the moment he was shot
He was deliberately framing questions as accusations against trans and minorities. That’s pretty much the skill he employed besides dumping completely unrelated and inaccurate statements so quickly it prevented any concise rebuttal because it was so full of shit you didn’t know where to start.
His career started with him being racist, and it ended the same way.
Not sure why you gotta explain why “seeing a black pilot and wondering if he’s qualified” is racist. If you need further explanation, you may have more wrong with you than just racism.
You took that out of context!! /s
Fucking reddit is just slithering with people saying that shit and that he was a good Christian who never hurt anyone, and that he was murdered for “his opinion”. Most of them have gotta be bots. I cannot fathom arguing so hard to defend that fucking Nazi.
Most of them have gotta be bots. I cannot fathom arguing so hard to defend that fucking Nazi.
They really are that fucking stupid, and any of the accounts that are bots are just parroting the morons who really do believe that shit. 77 million people in the US voted for Trump, some of them are on reddit.
I mean I agree a lot of people are that stupid. But the way a lot of these accounts write and will reply ad infinitum makes me think they’re not real people.
Morons parroting propaganda looks a lot like bots parroting morons parroting propaganda. Plus a lot of people are terminally online and full of piss and vinegar. Heck the most prolific posters on the Fediverse are active nearly all of their waking hours.
Sure, it is probably amplified because that is how things go. They are probably in the middle of the pack to avoid standing out and the absolute worst or ‘obvious’ bots are probably just people who post too much and have a shitty worldview.
My question is why murdering someone for their opinion is necessarily bad, if someone is openly advocating for slavery then I don’t think it’s beyond reason to want to kill them. Same if someone is proposing child marriage as a concept. L
Saying advocating for something awful like slavery or genocide is just an “opinion” is a bit of an understatement. And I don’t really find it useful to debate what is and is not a murderable offense in general. I would say killing is always wrong, but in cases as extreme as trump, it would definitely be justified. I wouldn’t say Charlie Kirk should’ve been murdered but also he ought to be dead.
It leads super quickly to a might makes right society. It ensures that “minority” opinions (like LGBTQ+ should have rights) are either closeted or wiped out.
they aren’t bots dude.
sorry if it upsets you, but most americans are quite conservative. even so called liberal/left democratic voters.
if you spend some time abroad you’ll be shocked at how fare more left/liberal most europeans are than americans. also canadians.
fwiw most progressive/liberal types i have are all anti-racist… until they see a black/non white person walking down their street at night. then all the sudden they are ‘worried’ and ‘scared’. and if i laugh at that bullshit and tell them it’s just a preson minding their business… i’m a jerk who has no empathy for them and is ‘privledged’ to not fear black people or something…
No true Scotsman indeed!
Same shit I’ve been seeing all day in the comment sections related to the Framework / DHH racism thing. So many self reports; like yikes. They’re all realm emboldened to say the quiet parts aloud.
“Never Explain. Your Friends Don’t Require It, and Your Enemies Won’t Believe You, Anyway.”
That’s the problem with the far right mindset. You can offer whatever factual and objective evidence you want and they just don’t care. They’re not going to read it and they don’t want their mind changed. Some say your should present the evidence anyway for others to see, but I’ve never seen anyone say, “I was reading this toxic argument and the one person totally changed my view based on the presented evidence!” The one thing I can say is that someone posting factual evidence is that at least those who do know and care understand they’re not alone.
I get where you’re coming from, have felt the same before, and would agree that it’s important to pick one’s battles. That said, I have 100% been the person you describe whose opinion on a topic was changed just because one person took the time to disagree and explain why.
In fact, since it’s often a thankless chore to counter a local consensus or hive-mind opinion using evidence or a well-constructed argument, I’ve come to really appreciate when anyone attempts to do so respectfully and in good faith, even if I’m ultimately not convinced.
WRT Kirk, there’s little room for nuanced opinions: one either knows nothing about him or takes his far-right christian nationalist and white-supremacist statements for what they are. Since fewer people will occupy that first category over time, attempts to reach them will see diminishing returns, so I think it suffices to just direct them to a reputable source re: his statements.
I have a similar philosophy, but framed a little differently: never argue with an idiot, because the best possible outcome is you’ll win an argument against an idiot.
So it’s more kind of “pick your battles”. Or, to widen the application beyond just discussion - always think “why am I doing this? What am I hoping to achieve?”
Since fewer people will occupy that first category over time
not anymore!
Honest to God I wish someone had told me that line when I was a kid.
Was at the bar this weekend. Ended up briefly chatting with a couple. The guy randomly says “How do you feel about Charlie Kirk being killed?” I knew I was dealing with an idiot at this point because who randomly brings up something like that at a bar with a stranger? I just cut to the chase and said “I’m not happy he was assassinated but I’m super happy he’s dead.” They immediately got all upset and flustered so I just said “Did you ever actually listen to him?” They stared at me blankly so I just got up and walked away.
No point in wasting time with dipshits.
I can’t wait for a year from now when Charlie Kirk will be utterly and completely forgotten.
I would have responded to that question by saying that ‘Charlie Kirk was a scumbag, his assassin is a 4chan nihilist groyper scumbag, and his widow is a scumbag’.
Queue family guy, who starts a conversation meme
Here’s a smart sketch breaking down the right-wingers’ little playbook that explains why they “don’t sound racist” to their listeners.
Also shout-out to “The Alt-Right Playbook” by Innuendo Studios. Deeper dive into all of the propaganda the alt-right employs.
Also they are doing their best to delete all the shit he actually said because they want him known as a ‘free speech and open debate’ hero when he was an intensely hateful man who spent his entire life spreading hateful ideology that has done very real material harm to many, many people.
Show me what remarks you’re talking about please?
How come you never reply to the people who provide the examples you ask for?
Bro we get it, you’re a racist as you keep responding back to valid criticism of the fascist Charlie Kirk. “But show me proof” angle is lazy when you could had googled it. Heck, your other comment is practically whitewashing what Nazi Kirk is saying through your own dog whistling interpretation:
I’ve been reading some of his speeches and at first I thought he was just a redneck racist but he’s not that at all. Find me some statements he has made that is racist please? Saying that black or any other group of people are not qualified for the job because of a law that says they must be hired because of their skin colour was wrong from the start. Only the most qualified people should be hired in a company if you want that company to compete on realistically with others. He never said anything about black or any other group of people just because they were/are black. Find me the racist remarks he has made please. Edit. I never knew the guy before his death.
Like please, go troll on Reddit or fuck off to whatever sleazy ass bumfuck area you live in
https://www.advocate.com/politics/charlie-kirk-anti-lgbtq-quotes#rebelltitem12
And that is just the anti-lgbtq shit. In terms of racism and women and women’s rights he was just as disgusting. His advocacy for repealing Row V. Wade also caused a tremendous amount of harm to many people.
I am not happy he was assassinated. But I am happy he is dead.
I try to explain this phenomenon like this: for them racist just means “something absolutely bad which is not allowed”. So when they see someone they like or themself say something racist it can’t be racist because they are not bad and/or they are saying it without bursting in flames.
for them racist just means “something absolutely bad which is not allowed”
Which is where you get “Self-Hating Jews” and “Anti-White Racism” and “Men are the Real Victims” rhetoric.
In the end, its just another form of censorship (increasingly state-authorized), where “Racist” is a thing you can say to shut someone up, regardless of the actual content of the message.
And, in a way, they’re right. “Racism” is a political term with the ultimate intent to silence words and ideas that are distasteful and destructive to the social fabric. But then Being Racist is also a political act, intended to silence words and ideas that are distasteful and destructive to a racist polity.
it can’t be racist because they are not bad
“It’s not racism, its race realism” was the trope back in the '00s.
Before that, you had Charles Murray and “The Bell Curve”, which intended to re-introduce scientific racism through sociology and statistics.
Institutionalizing and propagandizing racism has been an ongoing project within the conservative movement straight back to the Plantation Era. Hell, back to the early Colonial Era. Racism as a heuristic and a rationalization for eugenics has been on the books for centuries. Worked great when the majority always qualified as “white” and you could paper over holes in your theory by importing new kinds of “white” people (Irish, Germans, Slavs, East Asian anti-communists, Cuban refugees) into the zeitgeist.
The big hang-up that modern white nationalists face is that they’re not the biggest swinging dicks on the global stage anymore. So how do you explain your racial superiority when Old World Europe has collapsed, the American economy is thick with non-white plutocrats, and the whitest corners of the country are increasingly mired in extreme poverty?
MAGA is the white nationalist’s effort to reinvent their corrupt failed electoral strategy as a fascist activist movement.
I live in a very gentrified part of my city and some security guards will still follow me around while they let white people freely walk around. And yet they always act shocked and insulted when I call out their racism. They couldn’t possibly be racists — not them!
If those things are racist then it means they were wrong and it could also mean they are a bad person for supporting such things.
That’s enough for the human to animorph into an ostrich.
So when’s that guy getting canceled/fired/whatever?!
/s
People still talking about that nobody?! Forget him and move on to important matters like the Nazis regime shooting citizens and kidnapping Americans.
You know what they say, “if it steps like a goose…”
I’ve been reading some of his speeches and at first I thought he was just a redneck racist but he’s not that at all. Find me some statements he has made that is racist please? Saying that black or any other group of people are not qualified for the job because of a law that says they must be hired because of their skin colour was wrong from the start. Only the most qualified people should be hired in a company if you want that company to compete on realistically with others. He never said anything about black or any other group of people just because they were/are black. Find me the racist remarks he has made please. Edit. I never knew the guy before his death.
The fact that he sees a black person and is immediately suspicious of their qualifications is what is racist. I never went onto a plane and thought “I should check his license” when I notice that the pilot is black. It is the same behavior Trump displayed by wanting to check Obama’s birth certificate. He wouldn’t have mentioned it at all had Obama been white.
Assuming someone isn’t qualified because of their race/gender is racist. Take a class or two at your local junior college I suggest you start with ethnic studies specifically race gender and power. A Sociology, a political science civil rights course and history of black, native Americans and women might be helpful for your understanding this as well. Also, I work in an “elite” niche white male dominated field and the few minorities and women are by far the most qualified and held to a very high double standard because the white men have created a merit less nepotism situation or “good ol boy club”. This is actually extremely dangerous for the public but it will not change until there is regulation and government oversight.
OK. I don’t doubt you. But also in my experience, underqualified/bad employees are hired to full racial/sex quotes because the ‘appearance’ of being a diverse workplace is more important than… actually having quality employees.
My own company hired me after a string of minority hires who basically trashed the place… and one of the reasons they hired me asap because during interview I asked them questions about their practices and infrastructure and pointed out some basic visible flaws in their tech just walking through the office… none of which any of their previous hires had done and frankly… had perpetuated. productivity/retention also went way up when we stopped tring to DEI hire and set minimim standards for experience and degrees… and did this lower our diversity percentage… yes, undoutbale. but it’s also a much better place to work and our productivity is much higher. We still retain 15% minority employees. before that change it was higher, like 30%, but we had tons of overturn and problematic/abusive employees. that hiring policy was changed after a leadership change.
In my time in academia I also saw several unqualified people be awarded grants/monies or use DEI policies to abuse/exploit others. DEI policies are not wrong, but often they are deeply flawed and lead to perversions of their actual intent. The nobility of a policy that is supposed to give underprivileged people access to privileged is great… but oftentimes privledged people of minority status use them to simple boost their own privileged at the expensive of underprivileged people.
I can give you tons of examples. I dated an art professor a few years ago who was a woman and a native American… she openly admitted she was shit at her job, abused her students, and genuinely only gave a shit about how much money she could make… she was also incredibly racists and sexist person and was open about her discrimination. But because she was a tenure track DEI hire she was untouchable/unfirable. I went to an ivy league undergrad and watched tons of privledged minority race students threaten, abuse, and manipulate professors and fellow students to get higher grads or reduce their workloads, and the admin/profs never said no. and the second you stood up to these bullies… the admin threatened to suspend/expel you. And these students were not the hardworking immigrants… they were the minority children from wealthy families. Not to mention the abject harassment, intimidation, and silencing of anyone who was moderate or conservative on campus during debates/discussion… and this was 10-15 years ago. It’s only worse today. I once went to a lecture about morality and God and witness students threaten, mock, an deride the speaker, simple because he was religious. But in the students mind ‘all religion sis evil and bad and so is anyone who is religious’.
My grad experience was had regular DEI abusers and bad faith actors, including a prof I worked for who abused me for being male and white. She was at least removed from campus after having a literally breakdown and threatening her undergrad students in class. It took literally violence for her to be terminated from her position as a woman prof in academia. It should have never reached that point.
DEI policies should be abolished and replaced with policies based on income/wealth/education. That would be far more equitable and less likely to be abused bad faith actors. Kids from poor uneducated families need the leg up in life, regardless of their ethnicity or sex. minority students who come from wealthy educated families don’t.
I dont’ know about you, but I don’t really enjoy being harassed, intimated and threatened by minority students for being a work-class white guy paying my own way through higher ed from kids who were only there for the degree so they could go work at daddy’s multi million dollar business. who felt that i was ‘stealing’ from them by being on campus and they ‘deserved’ their education more than me… or that i “stole” my education from their ‘more deserving’ wealthy minority friends.
I’m going to be honest your writing ability makes me question your claim that you graduated from an Ivy League university.
At least you know it’s not AI, that’s almost illegible. This guy is just lying and doing it badly cause he’s kinda dumb. It’s almost wholesome.
Saying that black or any other group of people are not qualified for the job because of a law that says they must be hired because of their skin colour was wrong from the start
It’s racist because this is a completely false mischaracterisation of DEI.
It’s racist because it’s suggesting that you see a black person doing a job, they’re probably not qualified for it.
You’re a racist because you’re repeating and amplifying this racist bullshit in the full knowledge that it’s 100% driven by racist sentiment and calibrated to stoke racist attitudes. Now, please delete your account and never say or post anything like this again.
