There is the issue of an orgasm before penetration, but barring that, does the length of intercourse have any bearing on reproduction?
There is the issue of an orgasm before penetration, but barring that
You can’t bar that. That’s the phenomenon you’re describing.
Maybe for other animals but not humans. The fact that we’re one of the few creatures that enjoy sex is the evolutionary trait. In the world before contraceptives, humans enjoying sex meant more procreation.
… How do we know only a few other creatures enjoy sex? It seems like it’d be a good idea for evolution to do that with any animal that can enjoy things, and it’s not like we can ask most of them.
I asked my dog if he enjoys sex. He looked at me with a stern look and asked “Where are you going with this?”
Never had a problem with a dog humping your leg?
Nah, what’s the problem? I don’t mind.
Humans are unusual that females don’t show easily perceptible signs of ovulation and willingly fuck outside of that window.
I read somewhere that many species will do the same. Hell, bonobos will fuck often; homo, hetero, doesn’t matter. It’s part of their society.
Not many species will be receptive to sex outside of their fertility windows. Bonobos will, but not chimpanzees. I don’t think gorillas or orangutans will, either.
We’ve met different gorillas and orangutans, I suppose.
A trait being selected for doesn’t always mean it’s desirable to the individuals who have it.
Several things to consider, but I’m not sure about the first:
- I half-remember something about the female response helping the sperm get to their destination, but someone else will need to figure out if I have that right. I’m more confident that there are claims that the head of the penis is shaped to pull any existing semen out such that repeated action would make it more likely that any previous encounter was at a disadvantage over the more recent mate. Since I didn’t study this myself, I’ve no idea how valid those claims are, but I know research papers exist and include several other species as well as humans.
- Will premature ejaculation reduce pair-bonding? Will the female opt a different mate or no mate at all if she has no desire to repeat the encounter? The female might have one pregnancy with an unsatisfying partner and many offspring with someone else.
- Will the female keep the offspring? Historically and in many other mammals, a mother may reject her young. She might do this because she is alone and can’t care for it, or has a different mate who rejects it.
- Will that offspring survive to reproductive age? If not, the initial preganancy doesn’t matter because an abandoned/neglected baby or youth that fails to reach maturity is an evolutionary dead end.
On the first point, I read the original paper. It was wild and shouldn’t be taken as fact. The authors modeled a 3d penis and vagina and showed that the penis is able to scoop out paste from the vagina. They then interpret it as that it’s “possible” for the penis to have evolved the way it has to scoop out rivals’ semen.
The obvious counter to the claim is that anything can be used as a shitty scooping spoon if you try hard enough.
Also, note that a woman would need to have some wild body counts if she’s having sex so often that she doesn’t even have the time to let the previous guy’s semen drip out
The authors modeled a 3d penis and vagina and showed that the penis is able to scoop out paste from the vagina. They then interpret it as that it’s “possible” for the penis to have evolved the way it has to scoop out rivals’ semen.
The obvious counter to the claim is that anything can be used as a shitty scooping spoon if you try hard enough.
The starting point is the focus on ways in which human sexual behavior is different from those of our closest living relatives, other primates and apes, and how the observed sexual behavior of those other species correspond with physical characteristics in their genitals.
I found this paper to be pretty interesting, and it has a decent summary of why the semen pumping theory sticks around despite some pretty significant issues. It proposes its own theory for the glans penis, but the discussion of the history of the displacement theory is good background on its own.
Basically, species with low sperm competition (where each female tends to mate with only one male) have smaller testes and smaller sperm midpieces (the motor unit that actually drives movement), and species with high promiscuity and high sperm competition, like chimpanzees, tend to have larger testes and larger sperm midpieces. And on these metrics, humans sit towards the less promiscuous side of the spectrum.
So any theory of intense sperm competition is pretty inconsistent with other observed characteristics of human genitals and sperm.
But there also aren’t good alternative theories for human penis shape, when comparing all the primates that do or don’t have similar features.
I would recommend reading https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_at_Dawn book. While getting lots of academic criticism, it describes logically (and criticism for that was the most minor) well why penis has a form it has sex last that amount of time when differs for men and women.
To cut it short our ancestors species females had sex with several males (and vice versa), where evolutionary not the strongest male would reproduce, but whoever sperm will get to the ovum first. So penis is a pump which should help to remove as much sperm of previous males as possible, (that’s why some time for sex is required), ejakulate as strong as it can, than soften and loose shape to stop acting like a pump. Also there were spermicids found in substance males ejakulate in the end, which might be to minimize next male chances.
Partly book is very questionable, but it has some valid points and quite fun to read. No idea what is true or not =)
Despite significant academic criticism of the research, reasoning, and conclusions of Sex at Dawn, the book received praise from many non-academic reviewers in the media.
So yeah, academically, the both likely hasn’t much worth
Who’d want to fuck in the first place if it wasn’t any fun?
Do you have any idea how terrifying a ducks penis is??? And yet, ducks exist. Ducks fuck.
I don’t know what pandas penis looks like, but they need to get to fucking. They’re gonna go extinct soon!
Maybe having violent and horrifying penis’s is the way to go!
You could also have too much offspring. Our current reproduction rates already have us at the brink of collapse. And the rest if the planet with us.
Our current reproduction rates already have us at the brink of collapse.
- Very True
- Not pertinent to the discussion
The question was about evolution, how is this not part of that discussion? When we’ve destroyed all natural resources and heated up the atmosphere beyond food production possibilities (including loss of biodiversity), we’re back at the stone age. With matching population numbers. Evolution will take it from there.
Technology has already given us plenty of ways to sustain a growing (at least until it tapers off on its own at ~10 bil) population without harming the planet too much. It’s the filthy rich preventing us from doing so.
Technology was always built on energy sources. Hopefully nuclear fission will perform as anticipated, as current sustainable energy sources will run out sooner or later. I’m not sure how wind turbines and solar power will survive in a lower energy avalibility society. Looks like a Mad Max scenario to me.
No no no no. This a myth. People saying we’re killing the planet. We’re not killing the planet. We’ll never kill the planet. The planet will kill us. All humans will die, and earth will carry on. And some new species will take over. And millions of years from now, they’ll discover our modern day buildings. Deep burried underground.
They’ll mistake them for bones at first, but eventually they’ll figure out that these are primitive structures for housing. Housing that doesn’t fly. Doesn’t teleport. Doesn’t blast off into space. Just stationary buildings. And then they’ll laugh at how stupid humans were.
‘The planet’ was just short for ‘all organisms living on the planet’. The planet itself is not living, so it cannot be killed. But you knew that all along, did you not?
That’s capitalist propoganda. It’s so the working class spends time working more instead of having a family
You’re finally going to get communism a day before you burn down the planet blaming everyone but yourself 🤣
When did I mention communism?
So what system is being proposed once you get rid of the capitalist pigs and propaganda? We going back to patronage? Feudalism?
Revelation 21-22:7,12-17
[1] Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. [2] And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [3] And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. [4] He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” [5] And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” [6] And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. [7] The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. [8] But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” [9] Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” [10] And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, [11] having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. [12] It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— [13] on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. [14] And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. [15] And the one who spoke with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city and its gates and walls. [16] The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width. And he measured the city with his rod, 12,000 stadia. Its length and width and height are equal. [17] He also measured its wall, 144 cubits by human measurement, which is also an angel’s measurement. [18] The wall was built of jasper, while the city was pure gold, like clear glass. [19] The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every kind of jewel. The first was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, [20] the fifth onyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, the twelfth amethyst. [21] And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass. [22] And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. [23] And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. [24] By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, [25] and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. [26] They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. [27] But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life. [1] Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb [2] through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. [3] No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. [4] They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. [5] And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever. [6] And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.” [7] “And behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.” [12] “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. [13] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” [14] Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. [15] Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. [16] “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” [17] The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.
