I’ve wanted to get this off my chest for a while now. I’ve had this on my notes for a few days now and I’ve now got the courage to share it.
It was three years ago now when my daughter who was 19 at the time was arrested.
At first none of us knew why she was arrested but then after a few days the charges became public. We found out she was charged with CP. As you can imagine all of us were shocked to say the least. Our daughter is the most kindest and caring person you could get. We couldn’t imagine her being capable of doing something this horrific. It wasn’t in her nature.
At first we thought there was a misunderstanding and the charges must have been trumped up. None of us thought for a minute that she could be guilty of these crimes. We had her back from the moment she was arrested and we were all convinced she was innocent even though none of us had heard her side of the story.
In the weeks leading up to the trial we spoke to her a handful of times via the phone and through visits. We told her we would get the best lawyer money could buy and we would help her clear her name but anytime we tried to talk about the charges or the trial she would change the subject. It was very infuriating but in hindsight I know this was because she was planning to plead guilty.
I still remember when she only used a court appointed attorney and pleaded guilty. We were all shocked. All we could think was why she would plead guilty and not try to fight the charges like an innocent person would. Was she doing it to get a shorter sentence? Could she actually be guilty guilty? There has to be a misunderstanding here. I remember being there in person with my son during the trial. We had never been so shocked in our lives. It was like a punch to the stomach.
The trial was short as she pleaded guilty but to us it went on forever. The judge told us the details of what was found and they were horrific. Apparently, she had lewd pictures both real and drawn of little girls being abused. Some were as young as three or four. She ended up getting about a year in jail and was given a SOPO (Sexual Offences Prevention Order) and made to register as a SO for 10 years.
I tried asking her in prison why she pleaded guilty but none of us have received an answer.
It was so embarrassing for all of us. Her name and face were all over the papers and the Internet and we all have to live life being known as the family whose sister/daughter is a convicted “nonce”/“wrong’un”.
All of us were in shock. At first some of us were in denial about her guilt but over time we came to terms with the fact that our daughter/sister was a SO but some of my family are still in denial. For those of us who had come to terms with the truth the only question remaining was why? Why would she have those photos? Did she get them by accident or something? This isn’t the type of thing you can imagine someone you know doing/getting in trouble for. This is something that only happens to strangers you read about on the news. I hated the thought of my daughter being one of them. I know she’s done bad things but the thought of her being in prison still breaks my heart.
She was released last Spring and now lives with me. She pretty much has no future and has destroyed her life. I let her live rent free as she’s pretty much unemployable and has no chance of getting a secondary education unless she moves back to Spain but even then her convection is going to follow her like a shadow.
I still love my daughter as any mother would but I see her in a completely different light now. She still spends a lot of time on the internet and I can’t help but worry about what she’s doing there. I just don’t want her to get in trouble again.
She has goodness in her but she needs the right help and the guidance to rise above all of this. I know she’s got problems but I see the best in her. She isn’t a cruel person and she loves people, especially children. I know she didn’t do any of this for sadistic reasons.
You must log in or register to comment.
She isn’t a cruel person and she loves people, especially children.
This has got to be satire. You did not just genuinely end your post about your daughter getting charged with possession CSAM with saying she loves children.
It’s denial and/or a failure to understand that CP is harm. OP needs therapy, but so does her kid. People who like that shit aren’t right in the head, and need professional help. I’m a cruel twist though, they can’t really seek out help because even if they’ve not DONE anything, including viewing CP, they’re gonna likely be reported to the government or someone otherwise be punished. But now that she’s already suffering the repercussions, psychotherapy (from a good psychotherapist, not just a therapist or social worker) is the best thing for her. Also she should see a psychiatrist. The goal is to not repeat the bad stuff ever.
I wish it was but she really did love children. I remember when she was younger the way she would just melt when she was around young children. She was so naturally good with them I thought she would be a great mother some day.
deleted by creator
Now I’m curious to what was said.
I can’t offer anything of advice, but as a mother it’s normal to want to fix the world around them. The pain comes through in your words. Have you considered getting some help for you? It’s a big issue and you are fragile to it to. Look after yourself.
I don’t know what type and even if I did I don’t think she would go along with it. She doesn’t like talking about what happened.
Just you. Not together.
Oh, sorry I got mixed up. Maybe it would be good for me to see someone. I have been under a lot of stress lately.
Definitely. And honestly, don’t wait. I don’t know where you live, but it can often take forever to get mental healthcare if it’s not an “urgent case” (a fairly high bar to pass), so get started now. When I was in a very difficult situation I wish I had gotten help earlier (even though I can’t really blame myself, but that’s a whole other can of worms).
Forgive me if this is a little insensitive, but I presume you’re not here for a pat on the back…
How is it possible that she was released “last spring”, has been living with you, but you still have absolutely no context?
What has happened with counselling? I’m sure it’s practically mandated as part of her release. I’m also sure that any counsellor would try at least a few sessions with you and your daughter.
How did she acquire the CSAM? Did she produce it? How did the police become aware of her activities?
Finally, are you sure she was never a victim of abuse?
“Forgive me if this is a little insensitive, but I presume you’re not here for a pat on the back…”
I’m here to get stuff off my chest.
“How is it possible that she was released “last spring”, has been living with you, but you still have absolutely no context?”
It’s so very uncomfortable subject for both of us and doesn’t like talking about it. I don’t even know how to bring it up.
“What has happened with counselling? I’m sure it’s practically mandated as part of her release. I’m also sure that any counsellor would try at least a few sessions with you and your daughter.”
She is supposed to talk to a probation officer every now and then and the police have to check her electronics every month and she has to register to the local police. Those are the conditions to her relief release. I can try to get her on board with seeing a counsellor but it’s an up hill battle.
“How did she acquire the CSAM? Did she produce it?”
The trial was short so they didn’t go into specifics. If she produce it she would have seen a bunch of different charges. From what I can tell she downloaded it from the internet.
“How did the police become aware of her activities?”
Something about downloads and IP. Just a bunch of technical mumbo jumbo I’m too old to understand.
“Finally, are you sure she was never a victim of abuse?”
Yes, she wasn’t particularly active in her younger years. I monitored everyone she spoke to online and she never had any boyfriends/girlfriends.
ok, well… to take a completely different tack:
She pretty much has no future and has destroyed her life. I let her live rent free as she’s pretty much unemployable and has no chance of getting a secondary education unless she moves back to Spain but even then her convection is going to follow her like a shadow.
Your despair is certainly understandable, and while you’re getting things off your chest I guess this kind of statement is perfectly reasonable.
However, if I said to my therapist “I have destroyed my life” they would say that’s black and white thinking or binary thinking and lead me to identify areas of my life which are not in fact, destroyed.
The point is, to acknowledge that some areas of ones life may be problematic, may be even terrible… but your entire life is not destroyed.
I don’t necessarily believe that a conviction needs to preclude any form of “work”. Just as one example among many, it’s absolutely possible to make money as a graphic designer online without having to pass a background check. There’s almost infinite online content regarding how to learn this trade.
In any case, she’s lucky she has you in her corner. I’m sorry this happened to her, and to you. Good luck.
“Finally, are you sure she was never a victim of abuse?”
Yes, she wasn’t particularly active in her younger years. I monitored everyone she spoke to online and she never had any boyfriends/girlfriends.
That honestly doesn’t mean much. Abuse can come from many sources. In many cases, the abuse comes from a family member. It also doesn’t have to be sexual abuse, it could also be physical or mental abuse. And the person not being particularly active doesn’t change much. In fact, it could make it easier for the abuser to keep things under wraps.
That being said, an abusive past is not an excuse for what she did, but more of something that can help understand the situation from a therapeutic perspective and help preventative efforts.
If i were in her shoes, id probably ask myself why id have or want those images. Maybe she was/is depressed before having the images, and getting caught was a sign she wanted help, and wasn’t getting it by conventional means.
As the parent, I would avoid saying “she did this to us” and making yourselves out to be the victims. Its a terrible situation, but the more you separate from her and blame her, and outcast her from social circles, the worse your relationship will be, and the higher toll it will take on her psyche.
You’ve both been through enough. Work on getting past it with her.
“If i were in her shoes, id probably ask myself why id have or want those images.”
I’ve wondered about this many times. I don’t think I’ll ever receive a straight answer.
“Maybe she was/is depressed before having the images, and getting caught was a sign she wanted help, and wasn’t getting it by conventional means.”
Secretly collecting photos and then getting yourself imprisoned sounds like a pretty convoluted way to get therapy.
“As the parent, I would avoid saying “she did this to us” and making yourselves out to be the victims. Its a terrible situation, but the more you separate from her and blame her, and outcast her from social circles, the worse your relationship will be, and the higher toll it will take on her psyche.”
I mean, I will put a curtain an amount of blame on her as she did willingly download those pictures and humiliate our family but we have forgiven her and I’ve never outcast from any social circles.
“You’ve both been through enough. Work on getting past it with her.”
Thanks for your understanding. I have been thinking of ways she can get past this. The best way I can think of if she moves back to Spain and starts over with a blank slate.
I read a similar story once where the guy got out of charges (2x) due to having a good lawyer. Dude even logged back in with same account and didnt get on sex offender list. In this case op daughter didnt fight it. In my opinion she felt really guilty or is protecting someone else from the charges that would have came to light with an investigation. Is there someone she would take the bullet for?
In order to be charged an investigation already needs to be done. The crime she was convicted of wouldn’t require her to be a part of a larger ring but if she was and she really was covering for someone else I wouldn’t be surprise. It sounds like something she would do. She’s a very caring person.
I’m going to touch on is having completely destroyed her life.
Have a create a corporation. Then create an LLC under the corporation, put the whole thing into a trust. You will need an attorney to understand exactly how to do this. And then have it registered in certain states where they really value privacy. That way it’s hard to figure out certain things about that company. Wyoming is a very good state to do that in. You don’t have to be a resident of Wyoming.
An attorney will have to explain this more to you. I’m not an attorney. Now within that trust, have her create a business, an online business. Now she can conduct online sales. The police will still have to monitor her interactions and what she is doing. I’m not saying to have her break the law. I’m simply sayingthat the majority of the US will have no idea. Now she’s able to start making money.
SOPO is UK law, OP is probably not in the US
OPs home instance is Aussie.zone. I’m assuming they are in Australia?
Nope, I’m in the UK.
Thank you for the clarification. I would say contact an attorney and see if there’s similar abilities in your area.
I’m not saying break the law. I’m not saying don’t report to the probation officer.
Good point will follow up with them
alternatively, run for president
There’s always an option.
Didn’t think I’d find a nonce using Wyoming law to circumvent SO registry ban lists in lemmy this quickly.
I’m not saying it’s good or bad, I’m just responding to the original poster of saying she can’t figure out a way to make money. I’m just saying hey there is a way to at least do it so at least she can make money , she still reporting to the authorities so can watch her online activity. It isn’t like she’s out there doing whatever she wants without oversight. The only thing that would change is the public would not realize that item they’re buying happens to be becoming from a sexual offender. And quite frankly, I’m sorry most people don’t care who the seller is. Not really. If they cared, they wouldn’t be buying from places like Apple or many other places that depend on slave labor. If they cared, they wouldn’t depend on places that will only pay their employees, barely minimum wage and then the employee has to live on welfare.
The sexual offender still has to report their activities to their parole officer. That doesn’t change.
Now I need «Mute this post» option on lemmy.
Please don’t apologize to me irt how customer abusers can circumvent bad publicity from active boycotts. With Ye West to Trump, I’ve had it.
Like others have said 🧵, go to therapy yourself Moosezapper. Deconstruct yourself from your vision of your daughter, and see yourself first. Once you can have an objective lense, seek the prosecutor that dealt with your daughter’s case. Allow them to give you an interpreter, to breakdown the crimes and harms your daughter committed, with timelines. Compare those instances to the times you recollect you did or not have time with your daughter. You will find how the crimes were orchestrated without you, and how your daughter abused your trust.
I have little to none sympathy to child abusers. Do not let the nonces 🧵 dissuade you to protect your daughter from future harm of other daughters. If your daughter was guilty of abusing minors, there should be no further abuse ever again. Do not humanize child predation, ever.
I hate I need to state this: but Nonce apologetics, do not interact. I’m anti abuse, read my name.
Dehumanizing people is wrong.
Humanizing abuse is wrong.
Abuse is a very human thing.
Thanks, captain animal.
Okay so:
Your daughter has a medical condition, because ultimately that’s what pedophilia is. It’s not a nice one, certainly not the kind you’d talk about to others, but the goal here should be for you and your daughter to get through this thing without any children being raped, not pass judgement on her for a crime that is frankly no more morally wrong than buying clothes made with slave labor. Less (but still some) moral judgement, more understanding and more thinking about how to get her into a better situation will probably do both of you a lot of good.
I might agree with you if all she had were drawings or AI images of CSAM, but she had pictures of real little girls being abused. That’s very knowingly incentivizing the people who post such things to do it more. Not like unknowingly buying clothes that were made with slave labor at all.
That’s very knowingly incentivizing the people who post such things to do it more.
That’s exactly the point of the comparison. Drawings and AI images don’t harm anyone, so frankly they’re non-issues. And if anyone wants to disagree, please explain why they’re issues. CP encourages child abusers to abuse more children, just as buying chocolate with slave labor cocoa encourages slavers to enslave more children.
Not like unknowingly buying clothes that were made with slave labor at all.
I think many people know that their chocolate, clothes and almost everything is made with slave labor. You certainly seem to, so pretty much any bar of chocolate (or anything with chocolate in it) you buy is knowingly supporting child slavery. The point being: Watching child porn is certainly bad for the reasons you stated, but it’s also not the end of the world. It’s not like she was out there raping kids. This is a place the OP’s daughter can turn back from, so the focus should be on doing that and getting her life back on track. OP can live with this thing without diddling kids and without living in her mother’s basement for the rest of her life, so the doom and gloom of the OP’s post struck me as immensely counterproductive.
It’s a poor comparison.
Many people do avoid knowingly buying products made with slave labor. Buying products from a company does encourage them to continue their practices.
A better comparison would be if you had to go out of your way to find a secret back alley shirt maker, and on that shirt were a picture of chuldren getting abused while making it, on it written “little girls were hurt in the making of this shirt.”
Pedophilia is a symptom of a disorder that needs treatment, but if your morals include “Children should not be sexually abused,” enjoying pictures of it would be wrong under that moral framework. Some people compulsively lie and steal and as well, it doesn’t make those actions any less wrong. A reason isn’t an excuse.
And looking at fake images, while they don’t encourage abuse to create, still play into neuroplasticity. Looking at them isn’t helping anyone become any less of a pedophile and may lead to seeking out more extreme and realistic images in the future.
But I do agree this is a place someone should come back from. It’s a disorder, not a curse.
Many people do avoid knowingly buying products made with slave labor. Buying products from a company does encourage them to continue their practices.
Yes, many do, but many don’t. My point isn’t that it’s okay because many people do it, but that we accept the same sin when we do it, but when a certain group of people does it it’s suddenly the end of the world. Just putting things into perspective.
Pedophilia is a symptom of a disorder that needs treatment, but if your morals include “Children should not be sexually abused,” enjoying pictures of it would be wrong under that moral framework.
That would imply that doing bad things in video games or watching bad things happen in movies is wrong. It doesn’t follow logically.
Some people compulsively lie and steal and as well, it doesn’t make those actions any less wrong. A reason isn’t an excuse.
If someone can find a safe outlet for their compulsive lying or stealing without lying to or stealing from people, I’m going to actively encourage that for the same reason.
Looking at them isn’t helping anyone become any less of a pedophile
Is there something such as becoming less of a pedophile? This is one area where research is necessary before statements can be made either way, but I find it hard to believe that out of all sexual preferences pedophilia would be the one you can abstain out of existence.
and may lead to seeking out more extreme and realistic images in the future.
It might, or it might be the one thing they can do to keep their urges under control. This is going to come down to individual difference, and since there’s basically no research on the subject we’re forced to resort to blind speculation, and while I get your caution given the stakes, I want to note that the stakes are high either way. If you’re right, then virtual child porn is a gateway drug to child rape and should be treated similarly, but if you’re wrong then you’re denying sick people a way of protecting children from themselves. There’s no side of caution to err on here.
I explained why your camparison wasn’t adequate for the situation. Child porn isn’t as necessary as a shirt, and the abuse is the product, rather than the result of it. There’s plenty of ways we all unknowingly contribute to suffering, I’m not going to grade them all on a curve to justify the others.
I don’t follow your logic equating child porn to violence in games and movies. Even in situations where violence is gratitous and in poor taste, it’s still fake. No real person is actually getting hurt.
I stand by what I said, enjoying pictures that can only be made by hurting someone is wrong, if you believe hurting people is wrong. This is directed at OP’s mentioning their kid had real images of children in abusive situations.
Having a disorder doesn’t make someone’s actions less bad, but I didn’t say having a disorder is wrong in itself. Nor did I imply pedophilia can be abstained out of existence, either, rather that it doesn’t need to be acted on. I like BDSM but I don’t need it so much I would compromise my ideals to get it.
My statement about neuroplasticity was based on the science around porn addiction, and I’m not too happy with your oversimplification, suggesting I think “virtual child porn is a gateway drug to child rape.” There’ve been some ups and downs on that front, but there’s a fair amount of research from the last fifty years about it. Weird, sex-needing animals that we are, behaviours associated with a dopamine release can become addictive. So yes, I would err on the side of caution because addiction is a real, chemical dependency.
To go back to the violence in games comparison, research hasn’t found a link between enjoying violent media and being violent. Best guess is because the violence itself isn’t causing the dopamine release, like porn does. In movies and games the violence is usually part of a narrative instead of being the focus.
I don’t have any problem with research on whether or not people with paraphelias can manage urges using generated images, but only if there was a precedent to support that. So far the information we have points in the other direction.
not pass judgement on her for a crime that is frankly no more morally wrong than buying clothes made with slave labor.
What the fuck?
I thought it was bad to have an instance of tankies, but now we have a few users saying pedophiles are harmless…and you got upvoted for this shit.
What in the actual fuck.
but now we have a few users saying pedophiles are harmless…
Pedophiles aren’t harmless by default, but they can be harmless with proper support from their loved ones, just like with any other mental illness. Do you want to stop children from being raped or do you want to virtue signal about being real upset when people who have no support community give in to their darkest desires and rape kids? Tough on crime nonsense doesn’t work for anything else, why the hell would it work when the crime is diddling kids?
That aside, the problem with child porn is that it supports or encourages the abuse of kids. How is that any different to supporting child slavery by buying chocolate farmed on slave plantations? If you have a well-thought out point I’d be glad to hear it, otherwise your blind moral outrage is not helping anyone.
Suggesting that pedophiles are on the same moral level of buying fucking clothing is beyond fucked.
Assuming that these people who are pedophiles can somehow change is also bullshit. Are you suggesting that the POTUS is just a victim of “no support system”…the fuck? You’re suggesting that it’s a mental illness, and these people should be supported. What about serial killers? That’s just a mental illness too. Do you make sure they go to therapy twice a week since they’re just dealing with a mental illness?
How about you stop assuming that people with mental illnesses are animals that don’t have a moral compass. You’re deflecting blame off the people who commit these crimes and assuming they have no control. Fuck that.
Okay here’s the thing: Say something of substance or shut the fuck up. You managed to write so many words yet say fucking nothing. See? I can swear too. Now actually make a fucking point goddamnit.
Suggesting that pedophiles are on the same moral level of buying fucking clothing is beyond fucked.
I’m sorry that you have trouble accepting that slavery is bad.
Or how about you stop acting like pedophilia is some normal victimless crime, and trying to compare it to shit that’s not even on the same plain of morality. I’ve made my point, you’re just to defensive of your stance (which by now, makes me and I’m sure others see you as probably a CP consumer, even if it’s cartoons/AI) to see that you’re woefully incorrect. Pedophilia is not a victimless crime, it’s also not morally excusable as a mental illness.
Removed by mod
While there’s a valid point buried in there about the harm inflicted by drawn media, holy shit dude. Are you… serious?
Are you fucking serious asking that? Do you even understand why some things are wrong to do and some are not?
So if someone is raped and the whole thing is filmed, it’s completely OK to just pass that footage around, so long as you didn’t rape the person yourself? The victim of said rape has no say in that?
Removed by mod
No, no one is saying it’s the same as rape itself. That’s a strawman. And look at her post:
It was three years ago now when my daughter who was 19 at the time was arrested.
Let’s just forget for a moment that it’s pretty easy to figure out if something is AI-generated. AI wasn’t creating photorealistic pornography three years ago. And she was arrested three years ago. Means, there was an investigation before that. And usually people don’t get caught right at the beginning, so we can assume this whole thing started well over three years ago. Also, OP never even mentioned pedophilia, so that’s just another strawman.
Sorry, no, not debating the morality of ethos with someone who seemingly doesn’t understand how the possession of CSAM contributes to the harm done to children. Get help.
Removed by mod
So what’s the goal here, insult your critics into forgetting you’re defending child sex abuse? Hasn’t worked for trump, and that fartbag is way more charismatic than you. Seems like a failing strategy. Get help.
Removed by mod
Thank you, mods.
"So you are telling us all her crime was in having materials?
And you are calling her a sex offender, despite her having sexually abused nobody?"
Yes, the materials were images of children being abused and exploited. I’m calling her a sex offender because by definition that’s what she is. Somebody who has committed an offence of a sexual nature.
“I have also been looking for CP when being like 11-12, but have found none.”
11-12 year olds shouldn’t be making porn and there’s a difference between a young looking to images of people they’re age and someone who is over 18 looking for pictures of three and four year olds.
“If I were accused of something like this based on possession of materials, and someone close to me would think the way you do, that would be the thing pissing me the most by far.”
Very incriminating thing to say. Maybe you shouldn’t have materials like that.
“Pictures both real and drawn”, my ass. Whom can possibly a person making\keeping a drawing for themselves legally abuse?"
May not be a real person but people in general shouldn’t have lewd cartoons of children.
I’m sorry that this person is acting this way after you wrote this post. I hope you’re feeling alright
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
So you just literally troll everyone you can?
Removed by mod
