It’s not just Jill Stein, it’s a lot of people you see talking about Gaza as some blood curdling atrocity, but they don’t have the same level of empathy or consideration for Ukrainians. The anti-Israel propaganda is just being used to drive the Muslim and progressive vote away from Dems. I think it’s turning out to be successful.
It’s not just Jill Stein, it’s a lot of people you see talking about Gaza as some blood curdling atrocity, but they don’t have the same level of empathy or consideration for Ukrainians.
I don’t want the US government selling weapons to Russia to use against Ukrainians. I’m glad we aren’t.
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Do you believe Putin when he claims Ukraine is committing genocide against Russia in the Donbas region,
Of course I don’t. It’s why I’m glad that we’re not selling him weapons.
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We’re not selling Palestine weapons, either. Netanyahu is committing genocide. We should stop selling him weapons.
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Genocide denial is disgusting and you should stop.
Not yet, anyway. That’s absolutely Trump’s plan though. You want to help prevent that?
You want to quit calling me a trumper every time I speak out against genocide?
Why can’t they? You accuse everyone you talk to of supporting genocide. Quit playing the victim of the exact same shit you do to everyone here.
Avoiding the question.
Putting a question mark at the end of a lie doesn’t make it a question. I’m already voting for Harris, and you will never care because all you want in this world is total unquestioning loving support for Netanyahu and the genocide he’s committing for you.
You can put “but I’m voting for Harris” in tiny font at the end of one of your countless attacks on Democrats, it doesn’t absolve you of the damage you do.
Also I’m starting to worry you’re getting high on your own supply here - you do recall that I don’t actually support Netanyahu and your accusing me of it is just a rhetorical device, right?
Since you keep ignoring that I’m not a trump supporter and keep lying about me, there’s no reason for me to take anything you say at face value either.
edit: Elsewhere in the thread, there’s someone outright denying genocide. You’ve chosen to focus your attention on someone who objects to genocide instead.
And other lies you tell yourself.
I’ve never met a Palestinian supporter that isn’t also a Ukrainian supporter.
The entirety of lemmy.ml would like a word.
I signed up to Lemmy without knowing much about instances, can’t remember exactly why I picked lemmy.ml but it wasn’t politics.
Is this really a generalisation people have? Should I move…?
your admins also run lemmygrad. only you can decide if you should leave. personally, i like beehaw, slrpnk, dbzero, and blahaj. one important aspect to understand about the fediverse is that your instance is part of the identity you present to others
It has nothing to do with your identity. They all have different rules and different communities. Its more like which hotel chain you prefer to stay at. Its a preference for sure, but one that doesnt matter much.
People who judge based on instance are only outing themselves anyways. Churlish.
it does say something though about what style of moderation you prefer and who you associate yourself with. that’s why it’s literally part of the identity you present. it’s embedded in your username. it’s like your fediverse last name.
I’ve been on Lemmy for a year and only now I’m learning about instances. I’ve read a few threads about lemmy.ml being “tankies” and that hexbear is the worst, but haven’t had any negative interactions with either. Shit, I don’t know the majority of the time which instance I’m interacting with.
Sort of, at best it means that instance hasnt banned that person, yet.
You could argue it means something more than nothing, I’d argue its not enough to matter.
There are 20 Israel stories to every 1 Ukraine story on Lemmy.
Regardless of your opinion on the matter, this platform is being heavily astroturfed, and so are many other “liberal” platforms. It’s actually way worse here than on Reddit.
Of course there are, and I probably post 3 of the 20.
Other than the alt-right, you’re not going to find any support for Russia in the West.
Why would we need to raise awareness and keep posting about Ukraine to the same level as Palestine?
Why do you think it’s your job to do so? That’s the literal definition of astroturfing.
You absolute little liar.
the deceptive practice of presenting an orchestrated marketing or public relations campaign in the guise of unsolicited comments from members of the public.
I am a real person, with an ethical obligation to stand up against genocide. There is no deception, I am a member of the public, and what I am doing is called activism (or slacktivism for the pessimists in the world).
So, you admit that you are flooding this platform to deliberately present one story as more dominant in the news cycle than others in order to misrepresent its relevancy to current events?
You can argue definitions and semantics all day, but that is what you’re doing - and it’s dishonest at best.
You are saying posting on aggregate media sites is dishonest?
That is just ridiculous.
It’s actually way worse here than on Reddit.
Because after r/ChapoTraphouse was kicked out from Reddit for inciting violence, the tankies moved to create lemmy.ml.
Well “in so many words” she did call him a war criminal and described his war as criminal as well. And since that wasn’t enough, she immediately followed up by releasing a statement specifically calling him a war criminal to clear up any confusion.
I think Stein is a spoiler candidate, very possibly in the pocket of Russia, and annoying af, but this is trying to make something out of nothing.
She could have explained what “in so many words” meant when she was asked. She also could have just said “yes, he’s a war criminal” like Hassan did about both Putin and Netanyahu. He also agreed with her that the U.S. bears responsibility for Israeli genocide.
None of that was good enough for her.
And good for her for releasing a statement almost no one will see rather than just making it totally clear on national TV. Very brave of her.
I guess she won’t get your vote then. But thanks for keeping her in the public eye. People that might vote for her aren’t going to be bothered by this. All you’re doing is reminding voters she exists.
Edit: oh god, you’re that dude that posts over 3,000 comments a month. Nevermind, as you were.
Why do you care how much someone else posts?
You should have asked yourself those three questions before posting that link.
Or feel free to explain why it was necessary for you to say that now.
Do explain the necessity.
Fair play to you for posting that many comments. You’re putting the actual work in to make this place interesting. The best thing about you in my opinion, as opposed to a lot of active posters (here and elsewhere) is that you often disagree with the hive mind, and you stick to your guns. And I’ve seen you, on more than one occasion, actually, publicly change your fucking mind when you were presented with a persuasive argument. Lemmy, the Fediverse, and internet discussion in general, needs more like you. (Even if you were wrong about that one thing that time).
To your health, Mr. Squid!
If the propaganda is now directly targeting third parties it means that they are becoming popular enough to threat red and blue
Do explain how Medhi Hasan is “the propaganda.” He doesn’t even work for any major media company. He founded his own company.
Flying Squid you have been around here for enough time to know what propaganda is so don’t play the fool. There’s clearly a bias in which news get posted and reach the frontpage and that’s a direct and indirect result of the propaganda. How many news about third parties did you post up to a month ago?
The “bias” on Lemmy is that people use their personal biases to post an article they feel is interesting. If other people agree, they upvote it.
There’s no propaganda there. Lemmy just isn’t designed to cater to you personally.
There’s no propaganda there.
The fediverse has grown enough to draw biggest corporations in the world attention. Expect propaganda to be here too and expect people to repost here propaganda they get from other websites. I wonder where you got this news from.
He’s wrong anyway, the green party isn’t a threat to any of the parties, but it’s designed to shape off 1-3% off the democratic vote to help republicans.
You said it’s not a threat and then gave a reason it is actually a threat.
That was a different commenter…?
No, that commenter literally said they’re not a threat and then gave the exact reason the green party is a threat to democrats.
Look at the thread again
Are you saying that something helping the republicans isn’t a threat to democrats? Or are you saying it’s not enough to help because you’ve already forgotten the lesson from 2000?
So then she indeed did call him a war criminal on the record? You can’t pretend that doesn’t matter and expect any respect
Current president of usa has probably more pictures shaking hands and being friendly with putin than this person does. Politicians are all rigged and corrupted. I’m highlighting that news about third parties suddenly pooped out of nowhere and that it’s most likely propaganda
The exchange:
Mehdi Hasan: We looked at your social media, and you haven’t done that many posts specifically calling out Russian attacks on civilian areas. You haven’t called Vladimir Putin a war criminal, but you have called Benjamin Netanyahu a war criminal.
Jill Stein: No, actually, we did. Yeah. In my very first remarks about the Ukraine war, we condemned —
Mehdi Hasan: Vladimir Putin is a war criminal?
Jill Stein: Yes, we did condemn —
Mehdi Hasan: And Bashar al-Assad is a war criminal?
Jill Stein: Yes, in so many words, yes, we have said as much.
Mehdi Hasan: So you called Netanyahu one, which I think he is.
Jill Stein: Oh, absolutely.
Mehdi Hasan: Is Putin a war criminal?
Jill Stein: So what we said about Putin was that his invasion of Ukraine is a criminal and murderous war.
Mehdi Hasan: And he’s a war criminal who should be on trial?
Jill Stein: Well, by implication.
Mehdi Hasan: You’re struggling here to say something very simple. This is why people have their doubts about you with Russia. Why is Benjamin Netanyahu a war criminal but not Vladimir Putin?
Jill Stein: Well, as John F. Kennedy said, “We must not negotiate out of fear and we must not fear to negotiate.” So if you want to be an effective world leader, you don’t start by name calling and hurling out that.
Mehdi Hasan: So how will President Stein negotiate with Israel then, if you’ve called Netanyahu a war criminal?
Jill Stein: Well, because he very clearly is a war criminal.
Mehdi Hasan: Oh, so Putin clearly isn’t a war criminal?
Jill Stein: Well, we don’t have a decision, put it this way, by the International Criminal Court.
Mehdi Hasan: Yes, we do. Yes, actually, actually, you’re wrong. There’s an arrest warrant for Putin and there isn’t an arrest warrant for Netanyahu, so why is Putin not a war criminal, but Netanyahu is?
Jill Stein: Yeah. Well, let me say this. We are sponsoring that war. We are sponsoring Netanyahu. He is our dog in this fight. That is why we have a responsibility to pull him back.
Mehdi Hasan: No disagreement from me at all. It still doesn’t answer my question. Whether we sponsor them or not is irrelevant.
Jill Stein: With Russia it’s far more complicated.
Mehdi Hasan: Either you’re a war criminal or you’re not. Is Vladimir Putin a war criminal?
Jill Stein: In so many words, yes he is.
Mehdi Hasan: I don’t know “what so many words” — Butch [Ware, Stein’s running mate], is Vladimir Putin a war criminal?
Jill Stein: Let me say that whatever you think he is —
Mehdi Hasan: It’s not about what I think. I’m asking you. You’re running for President.
Jill Stein: If you want to pull him back, if you are a world leader, you don’t begin your conversation by calling someone a war criminal unless you have a…
Mehdi Hasan: So why have you called Biden and Netanyahu war criminals?
Jill Stein: Because we have a clear strategy and we have very strong support across the world.
How is it more complicated, Jill? The lady doth protest too much
I’m no fan of Stein. I was years ago, but not anymore. But she seems very clear in the beginning, then equivocates in the middle then clarifies (kinda) towards the end— but the way the interviewer goes after her seems like she’s being evasive in a way that doesn’t come across in the textual reading.
Is there an audio and/or video clip of this interview?
Yeah she explicitly said “yes” multiple times. I don’t like her, but this is garbage.
Because with the other 4 world leaders she said a simple, “yes.” Every single time she was asked about Putin it was either a “yes…” followed by a qualification or a hedged answer that wasn’t a yes.
its clear she’s being evasive with the putin answers. She’s an absolute disgrace to the green party
If you don’t mind Twitter, yes.
Thanks for the link, but I deleted my account years ago. No worky for me.
If anyone could link something else, I’d be quite grateful. 👍
Edit: here’s a link:
https://xcancel.com/mehdirhasan/status/1835761859838038350
Also— I don’t read her as being so much pro-putin as she is trying to be “stateswoman” and also being terribly unprepared. Just a total flop. She seemed like she was trying to be very reasonable, and she was just destroyed by the interviewer who was unrelenting on a single question that she was not prepared to answer.
I’m not apologizing for her. It was probably the one and only question she should have been prepared to answer right off the bat. And how she fumbled it was extremely damaging to her.
She did answer, but her answer got lost in the mess of it all. And that interviewer was being a very aggressive.
She had no problem with Biden and Netanyahu, but avoids a direct answer over Putin. It is painfully obvious
I agree that she’s being evasive
Thank you for being reasonable
Well, sure. I only wanted to hear all of this in context— and it doesn’t really help her position IMO.
It really shouldn’t be so hard to very clearly denounce Putin. She makes it seem like a real chore. Like, she has to be squeezed into saying it, and even then, it’s still a little unclear.
I think, to some degree, she’s trying to be diplomatic, but more importantly, she’s coming off as weak to international powers that she should be standing up to. Even if she isn’t some Russian shill, she should be standing up to Putin in a resolute manner that she is failing to do here, and kind of always.
In a very kind reading of Jill Stein, if she wants to take a more diplomatic approach to eastern powers, she needs to learn how to stand up to them. She’s a poor choice just because of how incredibly weak she is in her positions and diplomacy.
Jill Stein: So what we said about Putin was that his invasion of Ukraine is a criminal and murderous war.
Mehdi Hasan: And he’s a war criminal who should be on trial?
Jill Stein: Well, by implication.
Mehdi Hasan: You’re struggling here to say something very simple. This is why people have their doubts about you with Russia. Why is Benjamin Netanyahu a war criminal but not Vladimir Putin?
???
What does “by implication” mean to Hasan?
Jill Stein: Yeah. Well, let me say this. We are sponsoring that war. We are sponsoring Netanyahu. He is our dog in this fight. That is why we have a responsibility to pull him back.
Mehdi Hasan: No disagreement from me at all. It still doesn’t answer my question. Whether we sponsor them or not is irrelevant.
Jill Stein: With Russia it’s far more complicated.
Mehdi Hasan: Either you’re a war criminal or you’re not. Is Vladimir Putin a war criminal?
Jill Stein: In so many words, yes he is.
So they’re in agreement. Right?
Mehdi Hasan: I don’t know “what so many words” — Butch [Ware, Stein’s running mate], is Vladimir Putin a war criminal?
Jill Stein: Let me say that whatever you think he is —
Mehdi Hasan: It’s not about what I think. I’m asking you. You’re running for President.
Jill Stein: If you want to pull him back, if you are a world leader, you don’t begin your conversation by calling someone a war criminal unless you have a…
Mehdi Hasan: So why have you called Biden and Netanyahu war criminals?
Jill Stein: Because we have a clear strategy and we have very strong support across the world.
Is Hasan trying to defend Biden and Netanyahu?
Because Jill Stein repeatedly agreed with Hasan on Putin being a war criminal. But Hasan keeps doubling back and trying to defend the American President and his Israeli ally from the accusation.
The problem is this: regarding Netanyahu she says “Well he is very clearly a war criminal.” Regarding Putin she says “With Russia it’s far more complicated” and “In so many words, yes.” She’s hedging out of calling Putin a war criminal directly so she can plausibly deny it. She will agree with general statements saying he could be a war criminal under those circumstances but she won’t say it directly so she can go “Oh no, Hasan called him a war criminal, I didn’t, I just agreed that if all of those things were true then he could be considered a war criminal!”
She’s hedging out of calling Putin a war criminal
“In so many words, yes.”
Hasan won’t take “yes” for an answer. Which is a weird thing to do, given that he keeps looping back around to attack her for her condemnation of Biden and Netanyahu.
She will agree with general statements saying he could be a war criminal under those circumstances
Under what circumstances is Hasan conceding that Netanyahu is a war criminal? All he does is deflect blame for war crimes away from Netanyahu, which is a really weird thing to do across multiple interview questions.
she won’t say it directly
She will and she did. Of course, Hasan keeps cutting her responses off to interject with new defenses of Netanyahu. Which is, again, a very weird way to establish Jill as a Putin-defender. It seems more like Hasan is hedging on Netanyahu and trying to back Jill into recanting her views on Israel.
I think it’d be easier to take yes for an answer if she said the word yes. And frankly I question why someone can’t use the word yes if it’s such a clear yes
I think it’d be easier to take yes for an answer if she said the word yes.
She said the word yes.
How come she can give a clear yes for Biden but Putis it has to be surrounded by a million qualifiers? Multiple times.
We all watched the interview. What are you trying to prove.
I think her point is moreso that we’re actively funding and giving arms to Isreal to carry out these crimes, therefore we have more power to state things in that way from a geopolitical standpoint.
That’s certainly the point she’s making to avoid giving a direct answer.
Yeah, but it’s a bit of a fair difference to point out I think still.
That difference doesn’t mean she can’t give a direct answer. She’s using the English language nuances to hedge her answer and not commit to her affirmation.
But that doesn’t immediately mean she’s a Russian puppet either lmfao
Mehdi Hasan: Vladimir Putin is a war criminal?
Jill Stein: Yes, we did condemn —
Yall are deranged
Give the full exchange. I watched the full interview. She said “we condemn his actions”. She never could in a full sentence condemn him. It’s gotta be loaded with qualifiers, and even THEN nothing of value comes out of her mouth. It shouldn’t be like pulling teeth. It’s a simple yes/no.
You are responding to a quote of her saying yes and condemning him, and getting interrupted by a bully.
Saying yes then loading it with ten thousand qualifiers is not a clear yes. Nice try though.
Qualifiers like “his invasion of Ukraine is a criminal and murderous war.”
It’s a simple yes/no.
“Yes” is literally the first word out of her mouth.
Wrong. Her answer is ‘yes’ followed by a million qualifiers. Because for sugar daddy Putin we need to use the softest padded gloves. We’re not stupid. The ruse is up.
What kind of mental gymnastics do you have to be doing to claim that saying “Yes” to the question “is Putin a war criminal” isn’t a clear yes/no answer and clear agreement? This is like MAGA level insanity.
Why can’t it be yes, full stop? The same way she did for Biden and Netanyahu?
Saying yes with no many qualifiers is insane level of weaseling.
Heres a simple example:
“did you rape that woman” “yes”
vs
“yes she was asking for it”
Is not the same. That’s what she’s doing.
Mehdi Hasan: And he’s a war criminal who should be on trial?
Jill Stein: Well, by implication.
Mehdi Hasan: You’re struggling here to say something very simple. This is why people have their doubts about you with Russia. Why is Benjamin Netanyahu a war criminal but not Vladimir Putin?
Jill Stein: Well, as John F. Kennedy said, “We must not negotiate out of fear and we must not fear to negotiate.” So if you want to be an effective world leader, you don’t start by name calling and hurling out that.
Mehdi Hasan: So how will President Stein negotiate with Israel then, if you’ve called Netanyahu a war criminal?
Jill Stein: Well, because he very clearly is a war criminal.
Mehdi Hasan: Oh, so Putin clearly isn’t a war criminal?
Jill Stein: Well, we don’t have a decision, put it this way, by the International Criminal Court.
Mehdi Hasan: Yes, we do. Yes, actually, actually, you’re wrong. There’s an arrest warrant for Putin and there isn’t an arrest warrant for Netanyahu, so why is Putin not a war criminal, but Netanyahu is?
Anyone remotely supporting Stein is either as ignorant as she is (claimed there were 600 members of Congress LOL), or drinking Russian vodka.
This is also just the Chef’s Kiss in terms of having of all people Mehdi Hasan take down Stein.
Im very familiar with her position on Russia and Putin. As she has immediately done in this interview, that you will absolutely never acknowledge, she has already condemned Putin and Russia’s invasion many times. She is more critical of Israels genocide because of our involvement in supporting it. And she has criticisms for our role in aggressive military positioning around Russia before that invasion. She has a consistent platform of reducing military aggression.
Bullshit. Our involvement or not is utterly irrelevant to identifying a war criminal. She tried to cop out by claiming we don’t have a verdict with the criminal court; neither do we with Israel but that didn’t stop her, did it… ? Smells like Russian vodka to me.
that you will absolutely never acknowledge
Despite your lies, she immediately identified him as a war criminal
Evidently many here, including Hasan, disagree. In fact, her own response proves otherwise when she claims it’s because the criminal court didn’t issue a verdict. Once again, a double-standard in her clear declaration of Bibi being a war criminal despite lacking the same verdict.
You’ve got no logic to support your argument.
Hasan is a bully interrupting her immediate identifying Putin as a war criminal.
