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It absolutely blows my mind that a twice impeached insurrectionist single term president is not only running again but allowed to.
What the fuck is wrong with the USA?
Don’t forget, he is the leading candidate for that party too…
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both sides have so much in common that, yes, they are the same. it’s not like the choice is vanilla ice cream or a Michelin 8 course meal. it’s vanilla or chocolate
Vanilla and chocolate are the same? Yes, in that they are flavors but are still distinctly different.
I don’t want ice cream at all.
Username checks out.
I like me
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It astounds me that people are both-siding this when one side are blatant, actual fascists.
It’s not vanilla vs chocolate, it’s vanilla vs ground roach and arsenic parfait.
I’m convinced that anyone equivocating them in 2024 either are in denial that the GOP was murdered and fascists are wearing its skin, or are actively promoting apathy in order to help them.
We need to push back hard against this narrative because, when fascism is on your doorstep, there is no such thing as moral neutrality.
>anyone equivocating
they don’t need to be equal to both have fascists and both be unacceptable
Please see my reply to your other comment.
I’m not convinced you understand what fascism truly is and why it’s so dangerous. It’s not just things we don’t like politically – it’s a specific far right ideology that always leads to genocide. If you’re actually interested in politics, I beg you to learn what this means.
>I’m not convinced you understand what fascism truly is and why it’s so dangerous. It’s not just things we don’t like politically – it’s a specific far right ideology that always leads to genocide.
the absolute irony
>when fascism is on your doorstep, there is no such thing as moral neutrality.
i couldn’t agree more
>when one side are blatant, actual fascists.
that’s the problem. the actual fascists are on both sides.
Please provide some examples.
I’m very interested in seeing the Democrats who are making overwhelming displays of nationalism that attract actual fascists (which democratic rallies are full of Nazi t-shirts and waving Nazi flags?).
Which Democrats are making thinly-veiled threats of genocide, demonising marginalised groups, and openly calling for concentration camps?
Do you have examples of Democrats banning books and passing laws that outlaw the teaching of objective history and science? Or at least calling objective reporting fake news, as they funnel their supporters to debunked tabloid outlets instead?
Which Democrats are pushing their religion as the only true authority? Where are Democrats trying to force their religion into social and legal policy?
Which Democrats have been attacking education and the arts as a corrupting and demonic influence on society? Which of them have called for legislation to stop the subversive influence of Sesame Street and Mr Potato head, as a random and hypothetical example?
I’d also love examples of Democrats trying to criminalise women’s rights, to the point that women are turned into walking coffins.
Which Democrats have vowed to jail their political opponents?
Finally, which Democrats have refused to concede elections, claiming they’re rigged and false? Which have tried to undermine public trust in democracy, to the point of telling people voting is pointless?
If you’re going to make a claim like that, you need to be able to back it up with evidence. I can do that for every single point of fascism that my questions are obviously based upon, and I’ll bet you can anticipate my examples without me needing to link them. It’s all very public and open in the GOP.
Final question: does your claim come from an understanding of real fascism, or are you using ‘fascism’ to mean ‘things I don’t like’.
One of those is wrong but relatively benign, and the other always leads to genocide.
(Copied from another post)
The thing is, the 14th Amendment, Section 3 isn’t vague on this point - he IS disqualified:
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.
Look at the wording - it’s clearly intended to be an automatic disqualification. The only way you could possibly arrive at the conclusion that the Office of the President is exempt from this section is by jumping through frankly absurd and facile semantic hoops.
But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Pointedly, the only way Congress should be involved (per the relevant section) is in rescinding the disqualification.
The Supreme Court is prepared to jump through those hoops. They’ve practiced long and hard for this opportunity.
Clarence Thomas’s Patreon is quite well funded, so it’d be dishonest if he didn’t.
(Also copied from another post)
Well, they’re only appointed for life, and they did somewhat recently vastly broaden the scope of the 2nd Amendment, and political violence is on the rise, so I wouldn’t be shocked if one or more people decided enough is enough and conducted a “citizen’s kinetic impeachment”, as it were.
Regardless of how things ultimately turn out, things are definitely 10/10 fucky, and I absolutely hate it.
Unfortunately the “left” in the US is full of thinky ideologues and very few people of action.
Again it did not pass the 2/3 rule. That is critical to make it lawful. I don’t know why that is so hard to understand.
I get it. Trump is a sedacious bastards. But regardless they have yet to convict him of that in the legal court or within the Senate. Ones of those needs to have happened and it has not.
And by the way it is not uncommon. Was done to Clinton for what amounted to a private matter but again did not pass the Senate and thus it did not effect his access to office. As it shouldn’t have in his case.
It doesn’t require conviction. The amendment is written such that disqualification is automatic.
Plus Trump is a rapist.
Traitor rapist is not the horse I would have expected the gop to hitch their cart to.
But here we are
Christians love him!
He’s also allowed to run again despite declaring victory the last time, meaning that he is ineligible to run by his own reasoning.
We’re available for purchase by the highest bidder!
I honestly do not think he will be allowed to take office. I just think things are moving at. Slow pace to make sure things are done correctly.
Probably in some hopes that he will just stop running on his own or something.
But I doubt that he will ever make his way back into office.
What the fuck is wrong with the USA?
- The Electoral College (and land based instead of population based representation)
- The Citizens United decision (unlimited money to campaign)
- First Past the Post voting (mathematically determined 2 party extremism)
Not necessarily in that order. Fixing any one would put the country many degrees to the left though.
Who are these people supporting him, and how can we possibly go on living in the same country with them?
My thoughts exactly.
He hasn’t been convicted of sedation yet and the impeachments did not pass the Senate for removal. Basically that is like an acquittal.
Agree what is wrong with the US but legally it is still up in the air.
This take is wildly ahistorical. Confederates were barred from office without being impeached. Impeachment is not mentioned in the 14th amendment at all. In fact, it explicitly mentions a remedy for people who have committed insurrection: the Congress can vote by 2/3 majority to reinstate an insurrectionist’s right to hold public office.
convicted of sedation
I thought that was Bill Cosby
Well that too with Trump and Epstein. But I may have meant sedition.
But it shouldn’t still legally be in the air. He’s already been proven to be a traitor.
I agree with that. Shouldn’t still be legally up in the air. Proven in public opinion, sure. Legal proven no.
Ah, yes, the well-known legal doctrine of “basically that is like.”
Basically that is like an acquittal.
Not really. He has still been impeached, it’s just his own party chose not to remove him from office over the impeachment.
Yes we knew that. The point is legally he has been acquitted. Fair or not he has not been officially convicted and thus this can not be used to eliminate him from running for office.
I know people here don’t agree with it. I wish he was convicted myself. But it’s is not grey. It is ‘not really’. Your either convicted or acquitted and he was the latter because that is how the constitution works. Now use your vote should it come to that.
The point is legally he has been acquitted.
No he hasn’t. Impeachment is a political process, not a legal one. He hasn’t been legally charged yet, though that process is in the works. It’s taking a long time, because the seditious conspiracy plot was insanely large and wide-reaching. It’s the largest criminal conspiracy in the history of the nation, absolutely dwarfing Watergate which took 3.5 years.
Impeachment is a political remedy more akin to being fired than criminally charged, and is not required to invoke the 14th.
But it isn’t an acquittal, and he has officially been impeached.
It’s more like he was found guilty but then given no punishment at sentencing.
That absolutely is not what impeachments is. Look it up. Impeachments is equivalent to charging someone only. It then basically comes to the house to investigate it and decide if he is guilty. Guilty meaning removed from office. I don’t understand why people do not know this.
Ya I think he is slimy and likely should have been revoved from office. That that takes 2/3 of the Senate vote. But not getting 2/3 of the vote does not mean he is innocent.
That absolutely is not what impeachments is.
I wasn’t trying to say that was what impeachment is, rather that is what impeachment is like.
Impeachment is inredibly serious and rare. What we have faced is nothing like anything the founding fathers could have predicted. As such, any textual analysis would be flawed - the Founding Fathers could not - and WOULD NOT - have allowed Trump.
Trump has already far surpassed this line in the sand, not just from my own personal viewpoint but from the view point of almost every point of reasoning. I can confidently say that Trump instigated insurrection and is guilty of such far beyond the justification of any reasonable proceedings, such that I can do so without any real fear of reprecussions from the legal system - Donald Trump is objectively proven to be a criminal and a conman.
People who deny this fact are simply delusionsal and have no bases beyond being bitter losers to say otherwise.
Donald Trump is a loser, and his supporters are merely gullible losers who are also poor.
You’re either voting for America or Gilead.
Blessed be the fruit
Under his orange skin
ಠ_ಠ
I think that argument might convince people to vote for trump tbh. More and more it looks like the US had way too much power and uses it for evil and maybe voting for the dude that will cause its downfall will be the best thing for the rest of the world
As a part of “the rest of the world” I say you clearly : no. I don’t want Trump nor Gilead. I prefer corporate America other that.
Genocide and climate apocalypse, or genocide and climate apocalypse.
This is not ending with a Biden win. If Trump loses there are others waiting to take up the mantle. People that will look better (not physically) on paper so to speak. They will appeal to the more Traditional conservative, the mainstream.
A Trump loss will force MAGA back, after a bit of grumbling and violence, then they will become quiet. Not all of them. But the next fight will be 2026, 2028, 2030, etc. Though my belief thinks a better than Trump candidate will definitely be 2028 the next presidential election.
This Insurrection isn’t over for them…just like the Civil War never ended for them. They have patience.
We must remain vigilant and push for more equality for all.
The impossible needs to happen. We need constitutional amendments to further define and protect our democracy. But that would require those in power to be willing to close the gaps to limit individuals and party power, and I think very few in state houses (states have to ratify amendments) or Congress want to do that. It’s like the poor man who wants to protect the rich man’s wealth from taxes because someday he will be rich too.
You also need to look around you and realize that you have been governed by authoritarian fascists for the past 100 years continuously
So then do nothing and not participate right?
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It’s not the scary foreigners. It’s “our” rich people who have bought out the system and molded it to their liking. Capitalism always turns into fascism as the system crumbles under its own weight unless something drastic occurs.
As a non-American, I beg you, get rid of Trump. You’re the most powerful country in the world, your election has so much impact outside your borders, we are looking at it and are expecting…
What happens in November ? We don’t know and it’s kinda scary…
Would love to see the DOJ with this attitude…
They’ll sacrifice their lives for a person who is demonstrably the actual biggest loser in history, and he just gets more loser-y, folks, okay… If any of you are starting to have your memories fade, here’s a quick refresher to read this morning and then copy and send to your aunt karen in Missouri.
- 0 re-elections won
- 1 term president
- 2 times impeached
- 3 marriages
- 4 inch lifts in his shoes
- 5 kids, from 3 different mothers
- 6 bankruptcies
- 7 US Capitol police suing him for Jan 6 terrorist insurrection and murder of police
- 8 trillion + dollars added to the US debt in a single term
- 9 trump lawyers sanctioned by federal judge for lying in frivolous election fraud lawsuits and ordered to pay defendant’s legal fees
- 10 years that trump paid $0 in income taxes between 2000 and 2015. ($0 to cops, teachers, roads, prisons, disaster relief, etc)
- 11 trump associates charged with serious crimes over the past 5 years
- 12 million votes (the big lie) - trump claims he won the 2020 election by 12 million votes when in reality, he lost by about 7 million votes.
- 13 of August, 2021 - one of multiple days that trump was supposed to magically become president again according to Qanon and a crack addicted pillow salesman (the two most respected information sources in the gop)
- 14 year old girl in a youth choir that trump approached in 1992 to say, “Wow! Just think - in a couple years I’ll be dating you.”
- 15 originally confirmed cases of COVID in the US trump said would soon be, “down to close to zero.” followed by, “like a miracle, it will disappear.” - over 1,000,000 Americans have since died of COVID and it continues to kill 4 years later.
- 16 years old - age of daughter ivanka when she hosted “miss teen” pageant and, according to long time trump associate Noel Casler, “trump called her over in the middle of a rehearsal and had her give him a lap dance while he leered at the crew.”
- 17 known trump and russia investigations from local, state and federal prosecutors
- 18 gop senators that ignored trump threats / warnings and supported Biden admin’s infrastructure bill.
- 19 as in COVID19 - trump was verified as the single largest source of disinformation on the virus, with a Cornell study claiming that 38% of the “misinformation conversation” originated with trump
- 20 the day in January, 2021, when Biden was sworn in despite trump inciting a violent insurrection to stop election verification at the US Capitol.
- 21 gun salute that trump ordered for himself when he left office after a humiliating defeat, even though he never served in the military, famously called military members “losers” and “suckers” and actively avoided the draft with a cowardly “bone spurs” excuse.
- 22 date in August, 2021, when Alabama hate rally crowd booed trump for finally saying people should get vaccinated, only after 700,000 Americans have died due mostly to his failure as president
- 23 as in wrestlemania 23 in 2007 where trump, a cartoon level failure with no other prospects, participated in a fake bet that a proxy wrestler would win a fake fight on his behalf or he would shave his wig and hair plugs off.
- 24 day in August, 2021, when trump actually filed a lawsuit in Florida court against YouTube, a private company, demanding that they reinstate his YouTube channel like a desperate, irrelevant embarrassment with no platforms left to abuse.
- 25 plus credible sexual assault allegations against trump, spanning decades and with accusers starting as young as 13 years old at time of assault.
It’s great to see this optimism here. Wish I could muster that. Everything he’s done seems so impossible to me but time after time he wins and wins and gets away with so many terrible things. There is an ocean of support behind this madness and it seems like things aren’t nearly different enough than they were 8 years ago. I once thought him being elected was impossible, now it feels almost inevitable. A star is collapsing and he is the black hole at the center. I hope you are right, I support these efforts and I’m not giving up, but man it’s hard not to feel futillistic when the horned beast arises from the gauntlet unscathed time after time.
Not if Thomas or Kavanaugh have anything to say about it.
I have zero faith in Thomas or Alito. Gorsuch and Kavenaugh, while bad overall, have managed to surprise me a few times. While both were appointed by Trump, they haven’t been the MAGA loyalists I expected so far.
Gorsuch actually wrote the majority opinion on Bostock v Clayton County, guaranteeing sexual orientation as a protected class. He’s also been a defender of Native American rights and his Originalist tendencies focusing on Founders Intent when it comes to legislation may be helpful since those actually barred from office following the Civil War weren’t convicted in a court prior to their prohibition from office. He also Clerked under Justice Kennedy.
Kavenaugh has always been a partisan. He was Counsel for George W Bush and the was an author of the Star Report leading to the impeachment of Clinton. His approach to the law involves strict interpretation of language, and less of a focus on intent. The question of whether the 14th amendment applies to the President will be a big part of his decision, as other elected positions are specifically named.
But he also Clerked for Kennedy, and has been less-partisan than expected from the bench. He’s the idealolgical center of the Court (the most-partisan justices are Alito, Thomas, and Kagan). He voted with Roberts (the least-partian justice) 95 percent of the time in the last term, and the justice with whom he disagreed more than any other was actually Thomas.
He was also the majority opinion on 96 percent of cases, though that’s a little misleading because the justices agree more than they don’t. The justice with the lowest rate of being in the majority last term was Thomas followed by Alito, who were still in the majority on 76 and 80 percent of cases, respectively.
And even Barrett could have been worse, though she’s definitely the worst of the 3, and even more painful is that she replaced RBG. Interestingly though, Dobbs v Jackson is the only 5-4 case where she joined the majority opinion during her tenure.
Idealogically, all 3 Trump appointees are closer to center than any of the liberal justices. I don’t like any of them, but the worst justices on the Court are still Thomas and Alito.
*any republicans
Welcome to 2024, the year the two party system wins the elections again, peasants keep getting exploited and the rich becomes richer
The two party system winning over trump would truly be the biggest win of our lives.
yeah, a bunch of corrupted fascists and genocide supporters greedy for money who brought humanity to the bring of extinction with their wars and polluting the environment for profits winning again and staying in power would be the biggest win of your lives.
If we’re including the environment then it’s even more of a no brainer what a massive loss it would be for trump to win, he would undo and block as much as he could. Biden might not be doing enough, but at least we’re going in the right direction. Trump would make sure we go backwards.
If you think supporting a genocide is going in the right direction i have bad news for you
Oh so now all of the other things don’t count again? lol
Seems like we dragged this out almost on purpose so that it would become a serious election issue.
This should have been dealt with in 2020 and concluded with lots of jail time.
[X] Doubt
