It is whatever you buy a battery and charger for first. Then you are unwilling to forfeit that battery to just buy another tool. So you get another tool of the same brand, even if you aren’t happy with the previous. Then at that point, you’ve gone to far. You’ve got several hundred dollars in batteries you would have to give up just to switch. It is the most blatant example of the sunken cost fallacy.
Ryobi, specifically has entry level tools (a basic drill) that come with a charger and battery for cheaper than you can even buy a battery by itself. When you’re young and broke and all you need to do is hang some curtains or something you get it. But really, it is just a seed for your future “house” that you belong to.
I found a set of Makita tools for 60% off last year and now I’m Makita battery dependent for the rest of my life
In 10 years you will have thousands of dollars in makita tools because hey, that hammer drill you needed was only $110, better get another battery too, your old ones are getting tired. 🤷♂️ and you will always have makita tools, forever. Even if you hate them.
I used to be ride or die for Makita as an electrician, but they’ve gone downhill lately and their battery prices are insane! Used to be a Makita could fall off a ladder onto the chuck and bounce. Last year my crew had two drills newly bought that year CATCH FIRE and one strip the gearbox. Embarassing performance.
I’ve pivoted to Ridgid with their dirt cheap batteries with lifetime warranty. And I have a couple Ridgid->Makita adapters to use my new collection of Ridgid batteries with my tough old Makita tools. Battery adapters will free you from that lock-in.
Honestly I’ve been impressed with the Ridgid tools though, same manufacturer as Milwaukee and Ridgid has always been a big brand with plumbers. The brushless tools I’ve bought have been powerful and robust so far. No regrets
So TTI manufactures Milwaukee, Ryobi, and Ridgid power tools. I didn’t know they did Ridgid too. I wonder how many manufacturers there really are for the plethora of power tool brands. I’m gonna guess like three.
Wait TTI does dewalt too? I thought dewalt was same co as Milwaukee.
DeWalt is Stanley Black and Decker not tti
Feels like something the EU would eventually work on settling: making all tool manufacturers have a non-proprietary connector.
Just fucking make it all XT90 or something.
And have the battery dangling? XT90 also doesn’t provide any way to communicate things like max charging speed, cell voltage or failure conditions to the charger
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/eKOvXigyrXA?si=XiTMEQfNU1XmF2LQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for a Belgian or something to drop in here to say that they’ve had fully interchangeable batteries for the last twenty years, and then make fun of us for building houses out of wood because we didn’t clear cut our continent.
More people should know there actually are adapters for different brands of batteries on amazon, and thingiverse if you have a 3D printer
And if you don’t have a 3D printer, your local library likely does.
Dewalt battery on a Dyson vacuum as well
A bunch of much better ones on Etsy too
Thanks for the tip :)
And if you don’t have a 3D printer, your local library likely does.
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Looking for this comment, I’m still running my craftsman 19.2 volt tools, but with a 20v DeWalt adapter, saved my from throwing away 1 reciprocating saw, 1 light, 1 1/4" impact, 2 drills, 1 90° drill, and a circular saw.
Yeah Ryobi is dirt cheap and good enough for most things. When you need to add another tool, choosing between the one that doesn’t have a battery and the one that does but is twice the price has a big influence on your decision.
Also, I’m not a contractor, so I only use certain tools once every six months. Have yet to have anything fail on me. If it does, maybe I’ll upgrade. Certain tools have already paid for themselves in that they saved me from needing to hire someone else. Just getting a pole saw and hedge trimmer alone saved me probably $700.
I do have a few of the other brands, but they were damn pricey and I don’t use them enough to justify it.
Fucking Ridgid got me, because on paper, they have lifetime warranties on their batteries. But after buying an expensive combo, they made it an absolute hassle to register my tools, so I kinda doubt they’ll honor their warranty. Now I’m Ridgid + Dewalt. My corded tools and hand tools are whatever brand; harbor freight or walmart if not used often, Milwaukee, DeWalt, etc if I expect to use them often.
I really dislike Home Depot after a series of huge customer service mishaps with me last year, and actively avoid going there now.
Which is a shame because I have a lot of Ryobi One tools. They are perfectly positioned for weekend warriors…huge tool library, good batteries, affordable and of fairly decent quality (certainly well above “junk” and a good value for the money).
Shame that is a store-exclusive brand.
The worst part is I’ve bought into most of the cordless tools I’d really need. The day might come where I want a larger circular saw (mines only 5.5 and it is prone to binding if your technique isn’t perfect, and even then…) or find that some of the tools that I’m okay with having corded (like a jigsaw or an angle grinder) I now need a cordless replacement. At that point I’ll likely find myself buying into a better and more expensive battery system and, for quite a while, only having the one seldom-used tool for it.
Now I’ve got a dead 4Ah battery and I’m on the fence as to rebuild it, buy a new one, or take it as an opportunity to start going into a new battery system.
Would there be a way to 3D print plastic part of a battery and just fill it with standard battery types (cylindrical batteries) and make them swapable? Because as far as i know there isn’t really any electronics in batteries, just different voltages based on number of batteries in series and different mounting mechanism. It just seems like a silly vendor lock-in.
It is whatever you buy a battery and charger for first. Then you are unwilling to forfeit that battery to just buy another too
One could go pneumatic, get a compressor and pneumatic tools.
That’s only good if you can bring your work to your garage.
I have a 100’ air hose that reaches anywhere in the house. I often run it outside and back in a window somewhere so it doesn’t end up in the way of family. I also have a small compressor for airbrushing rather than running permanent air lines from the garage to my basement workshop. You’ll still want cordless convenience for a drill and some other small tools though.
You can get portable compressors.
I actually did a lot of research on this when I bought my first battery tools, knowing this would be the case, and decided they had a decent range of everything I’d likely need.
I went with AEG.
Which is TTI, so the same as Milwaukee, Ryobi, and Rigid. I wonder if they are more of a non-US rebranded one of those 3
They’re identical to Ridgid, including the batteries being compatible.
Milwaukee included a bag and floodlight in their drill package so I guess that did it for me. Most of my drill bits are Ryobi though.
(Not a dad, just a lesbian)
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Do Bosch tools not exist outside of Germany? Here the professional (blue) line is pretty much on par with hilti and Makita in terms of quality if not better depending on the type of tool
Bosch doesnt really enter the chat in a lot of places because their range of (excellent) tools just isnt that big.
If you’re looking to enter a dad dick measuring contest with your tool collection Bosch isnt going to win, I swear Ryobi is about 3 seconds from bringing out a battery powered battery.
So basically, Bosh is Bosh-batons Academy of Magic.
Mastercraft/Amazon Basic brand over here for us squibs too.
Stanley is the dark arts. They own DeWalt, we all pretend DeWalt isn’t just a front for Stanley, but we all know they are sus. Users of Stanley tools are known as Deck Eaters.
I was wondering when someone would mention MasterCrap
I have Ryobi’s battery powered power supply, so… kinda!
There’s some Bosch stuff in the UK. I’m a Makita person but I recently bought a Bosch glue gun and it’s the most solid feeling glue gun I’ve ever had.
Not a professional line but I also know a few people that love the Parkside tools from Lidl, they are good value home tools so I’m told.
The Lidl tools give me some serious Harbor Freight vibes.
They exist in NA but definitely aren’t as popular. The Bosch evsk1617 kit is still the best value for a larger size (not palm) router kit.
Bosch os common throughout Europe. In the US it probably suffers from the not invented here syndrome. Or maybe just heavy taxes, or they don’t think blue is manly enough. Who can tell?
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Is that the blue or green stuff? The blue stuff is pretty consistently good I think, the green stuff is the “I’m a broke student” stuff.
Green vs Blue.
I’ve let the smoke out of a Bosch drill before, they’re not that great.
I work with Hilti tools at work. You just made me giggle, thanks!
Dewalt is still that well regarded? My dad fucking hates them lol we used to have a good amount of their stuff and then tool after tool broke on him and he won’t buy them unless he doesn’t have a better option (he and my brother are HVAC/plumbers). He likes Milwaukee but thinks they’re overpriced, and has a decent amount of Ryobi stuff now, along with Bosch. My grandpa was the Makita man.
I have a lot of Ryobi and Makita hand-me-downs as a result, haven’t really had to buy much of my own yet, but that’s changing.
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All of my DeWalt gear straight up fucks. Anything else is toys though my Incra router table swings a fat Makita and my mitering chop saw is a Rigid.
Festool is the dad who still says “My father will hear about this”. Sure people like him but he’s still an asshole.
Festool is like a Porsche. They are expensive, but once you experience it you understand why they are worth that price.
I was wondering where Festool gang was at
Love my overpriced German Metabo.
I have a metaboHPT Brad nailer and it was absolutely the most affordable I could find outside of harbor freight level, and at the same time one of my highest quality tools. Truly a joy to use.
MetaboHPT are Hitachi. I wish their tools were compatible with my Metabo gmbh CAS batteries.
As a bisexual Makita dad, this describes me well.
Can confirm I’m in debt
Anyone buying Hilti for DIY work needs to be slapped.
Bosch in the meantime is just working working and working. No sex, no fun, just work.
This tracks.
DeWalt: high quality and good pedigree but overpriced = Slytherin
Milwaukee: basically the same as DeWalt, but less pretentious. Thinks they’re better and tougher though = Gryffindor
Makita: the smart choice for value, also best colors = Ravenclaw
Ryobi: I know it will break, but they’re just tools and I’m not serious about this anyway. I would rather spend more money on my family or other hobbies = Hufflepuff
Honorable mentions of other “houses” and schools in the thread.
Black and Decker/Craftsman/whatever. Used to be very impressive, but completely corrupted. Probably evil = Durmstrang (Russian school)
Festool: Beautiful, absolutely dripping with wealth signals. Still pretty amazing at what they do, but you might not want them on a job site = Beauxbatons (super wealthy French school)
Harbor freight: Simple, potentially the most powerful but also likely to break. Can probably accomplish what you need by using a wrench as a hammer, but you wouldn’t want to do anything delicate with it. Actually the biggest group of dad-wizards = Uagadou (the school in Uganda where magic was invented but they don’t use wands)
Festool is not on this list because Festool owners NEVER GET ANYONE PREGNANT.
My dad gifted me a Dewalt Impact for Father’s day one year and I’ve been unintentionally stuck in that ecosystem since.
How have power tool companies not figured out Gillette’s trick about giving you a free razor on your 18th birthday to lock you in for decades?
Weird, I always thought that Gillette used the Selective Service registration in figuring out who to reach
Also, could the power tool companies afford to give power tools away like that? A razor is one thing but a cordless drill?
That drill needs batteries before long and needs to have an assortment of bits to use with it, those companies often sell all the bits or own the company that does
Dewalt has the juice to get it done but lacking g in specialty tools and their tough system sucks compared to Milwaukee. Coming from a guy with several grand of dewalt. Kind of wish I went Milwaukee but I’m in too deep…
They’re getting better on specialty tools the last year or 2.
The 12 volt line has expanded as well. I Didn’t need the 12v drill driver combo but wanted the 12v rachet they had as a free tool ona sale.
I rarely grab the 20v drill or driver unless the 12 just can’t get it done.
The tough system stuff is finally starting to catch up a bit. I will admit it pisses me off to no end that so many items that come in clam shell cases aren’t compatible or the tough system boxes could be designed with those items in mind as well.
Milwaukee is still winning that one but I couldn’t justify the price.
I got my old man some DeWalt stuff. They’re excellent tools.
Bosch
I dropped my locking, variable speed, single direction, corded drill with the chuck key electrical taped to the cracked plastic cord on a board and the hole I needed formed naturally out of fear.
You need to know that most power tools are ultimately owned by only a few brands
Milwaukee and Ryobi for example are both owned by TTI but the Marketing is strong.
https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-owns-them/
Well, yes, but they serve drastically different markets, and the ownership structure is different. Ryobi is for the home owner that occasionally uses tools, and is licensed by a Japanese company to allow TTI to produce the brand. Milwaukee is for heavy daily use, and is wholly owned by TTI.
Its also worth mentioning that adapters are available to convert between battery systems. If you’re on Milwaukee and want to buy a DeWalt palm router (which is superior IMO) then you can just get a converter to use it with a Milwaukee battery. You can keep the converter in the tool itself, and most tools don’t mind this.
The exception is Ryobi. Converters only exist one-way, since Ryobi still uses “stick” type batteries for low voltage stuff. The opposite converter could theoretically exist (say, to use a Ryobi battery with a DeWalt router) but it would be very large and bulky and so nobody really makes them.
Ryobi batteries in general are very bulky. That 12 AH is like strapping a boot to your tools. It’s also seemingly their weak spot, as all I read is people complaining about their batteries.
They make a 12ah? I have the 4 and it’s huge. It lasts a surprisingly long time too. A 12ah would last a bazillion years.
Heck yeah! Makita is just Makita!
Japanese and over 100 years old…
You remember how Harry chose the house he wanted to be in, and it’s canon, that the sorting hat ward isn’t definite? When I was buying my first tool, I wanted a Ryobi. But they didn’t have it in stock and they did have Makita on sale and the sales guy told me that would be much better for the same price. So after that I’m buying only Makita, to fit the rest.
DeWalt gang, stand up!
In my experience, Dewalt has been the best in terms of balance between reliability, flexibility, and cost. Milwaukee is probably the most reliable but also the most limited. Ryobi are cheap junk. Makita tools I haven’t used but I’ve been told repeatedly that they used to be awesome but are now cheap junk.
All of these companies have at least a few items that are cheap junk (like most of the bluetooth speaker stuff…wtf?) but some are worse than others.
While I acknowledge that Ryobi is at the bottom of the barrel, my experience with them has been really good. I’ve been using the same drill/driver for 20 years, and have gotten lots of use out of their other tools.
What does bottom of the barrel mean in context though?
I have Ryobi and they’ve all been great, but I’m not a builder, I’m a homeowner who has occasional projects and small fixit/replace jobs around the house.
My brother was gifted a Ryobi set decades ago by my parents, it’s what my dad used, but has since replaced it with DeWalt. However, he has a wood shop in his garage, has added a deck, built multiple retaining walls, a shed and all sorts of stuff in the ~15 years they’ve owned their house.
I feel like how and how often you use the tools plays a big role. I usually get a new tool from Harbor Freight, unless I know it’s something I’ll use a lot. Then if I end up using it enough for it to break/fail I go buy the nicer version.
I have Dewalt/Ryobi battery tools
Ryobi usually lacks features
Take for example an oscillating saw
With my dewalt oscillating saw I can swap a blade or change the angle of the blade in 1 second because you just push down a lever. On the ryobi, you have to break out an allen wrench (which is stored in the tool) and loosen a bolt.
Someone that might use the saw once every blue moon might not care that much, but someone who uses it every day it is a big deal.
Also quality, Ryobi tools just feel cheaper.
I buy important tools in dewalt and less important tools in Ryobi. Like my small leaf blower is Ryobi. No need to pay extra for the dewalt one because it’s just for quickly blowing off my walkway or front porch steps. If I need to move a lot of stuff I use my gas backpack blower, which is also Ryobi. Only problem I’ve ever had with it is the cord snapped a couple times, I think it has to do with how it rubs the grommet. Replaced the last time with a more heavy duty cord and haven’t had a problem since. Always starts in less than 3 pulls and very powerful.
There are cons to Ryobi tools, but when looking at the top of the barrel tools the only con is usually the price.
So Ryobi is just fine. With the context you provide if you’re a heavier user who needs the features then you can spend more? If you need a quality tool that will get the job done without frills then Ryobi is great?
Yes
Ryobi is fine
Other tools are better
Internet likes to put down Ryobi but it’s not as bad as they make it out to be.
My first power drill was Ryobi like 10+ years ago and still works to this day. I prefer using my Dewalt drill, it’s less clunky.
No one wants to be a “Ryobi Guy”. Especially behind a screen where you can say you have any tool you want.
Bosch makes my favorite hammer drill. My Makita sander works like a champ. I enjoy my Milwaukee packout toolbox.
People get stuck on brands. And while with tools there are differences, Ryobi works just fine.
I did burn out my Ryobi oscillating saw. But that’s the only Ryobi tool that has failed me and I have like a dozen of them. I really like my ryobi finish nailer.
I love my Ryobi finish nailer! The only Bosch I currently have is an inherited corded jigsaw but it has held up well.
Bosch makes a solid hammer drill…I once drilled into a steel reinforcement in concrete and it melted the bit red hot into a tear drop, and it didn’t even stutter
But my Ryobi bits snapped multiple times the first time I used them (I used a center punch and proper form, they just snapped like glass the second I used carbide bits on a freaking aluminum alloy). Their power tools aren’t quite as bad, but they’re not noticeably better than harbor freight stuff. I genuinely believe black and Decker is better
Granted, I think Ryobi used to be way better…I think they got bought out used for the name a while back
Same… I simply don’t use the tools enough to justify buying the expensive model. If a certain tool fails, maybe I’ll buy the higher quality model, but so far nothing has failed and they do the job. Don’t care too much about having the right brand.
Haven’t used makita bt. Have 20+ other makita going back 15yrs to brand new ones. All have worked perfectly with incredible power. Same batteries work on all of them. Have had some chargers fail but not a single tool. They get used and abused daily with no issues. Granted this is anecdote evidence.
Curious if the brand new ones will last then. I’ve had a few friends say that the new ones break more easily than their old ones but that is also anecdotal.
Could also depend on how they’re are used and treated. Some of my friends theirs don’t last long at all with how they use them.
If it works for you and how you use it, then it’s the right tool.
Depends on which line of Makita you buy into I think. I have a right angle drill and the “good” angle grinder from them (not that xlock bullshit) and both get moderate use. Both are 5-ish years old and still work great.
I’ve got all Dewalt for the stuff that needs to last (circular saw, reciprocating saw, drills, etc), but for some things I get the cheap garbage because the cost difference is so extreme and I know I’m just going to replace them every couple years anyway.
Most of my yard equipment is ryobi. All of the stuff with massive batteries is just so stupidly expensive from Dewalt and Milwaukee. I don’t expect an outdoor lithium ion battery to last more than 5 years anyway, so instead of getting the high quality version, I got the shit one and had money to spare on extra batteries.
I have the flexvolt yard tools and they’ve gone strong for 5 years. Their blower is the strongest out there but only last about 15-20 minutes.
Ryobi is great if you’re like me and just need the occasional tool to do a small project around the house and then gets put away for a few months. I’ve got a Ryobi portable vacuum at work that does great, gets used daily.
I’ve used dewalt professionally for many years and the tools are top notch
Can’t, sold my kidneys to afford these and I’m too sore.
I needed to pick a side 4 years ago when buying a drill and hadn’t heard a bad word about DeWalt.
So I bought DeWalt.
DeWalt ftw. Granted, I keep getting told to wait for Christmas and getting black and Decker as gifts… It’s good enough to manage for my needs, but very noticeably worse
IME, Milwaukee is noticeably more hardy in cold temperatures, Ryobi is absolute garbage, and Makita is pretty good for hobbyist level
But I worked construction during college, and DeWalt was great, and Milwaukee was almost as good. The other two don’t deserve to be in the same list
House DeWalt: The Builders
House Ryobi: The Slapjobs
House Milwaukee: The wishes they were house DeWalt
House Makita: Quality prevails regardless of how little I use my tools.
Unmentioned:
House Bosch: House Makita but doesn’t like Asians
House Metabo: House Milwaukee but green
House Rigid: wow these are fuckin cheap
House Worx: Tools take a backseat to Yardwork
House Metabo HPT: My wife says they’re great
Milwaukee is better than DeWalt in literally every category. Come at me.
I was browsing the tool section at a Home Depot once a couple of years ago when a very attractive young woman came up to me and started asking me about my project. I’m not so dense that I thought she was hitting on me, but I couldn’t figure out her angle and I thought maybe she was a prostitute or something. Turns out she was a Milwaukee sales rep and she was trying to encourage people (men, rather) to buy some Milwaukee cordless tools.
So, technically not a prostitute.
Only if you go for the strict definition.
Any exchange of labour for money under an indentured system where you are under constant violent threat of homelessness, destitution, starvation, and even death if you don’t work, is a certain type of prostitution born of desperation.
TL;DR: most of us whose paycheques are signed by someone else are labour prostitutes.
This is today’s Lemmy Moment Of The Day.
I can’t say I disagree with any of that.
I’ve got AEG, which is basically yellow Milwaukee anyway.
I’ve used dewalt professionally for many years. My buddies who use Milwaukee are always borrowing my stuff. I’ll leave it at that.
Yeap, switched from Milwaukee from DeWalt recently. The tool quality is pretty much the same, but the Milwaukee battery and chargers are a lot nicer.
My construction companion runs Milwaukee. As I stated in a different comment, he’s had several drills and batteries blow in about three years. This isn’t to say they’re not a great brand, but that’s too many lemons for the premium they charge for my taste. seems like their biggest downfall is the plastic shells they use, especially on batteries. Those little power check buttons break right quick, and the rubber over moulding doesn’t deal with grease well.
I run Metabo HPT, and I abuse the hell out of them. Drilling inch holes 12" deep in concrete for garage anchors, running all the batteries in sub zero and 100+ temps, notching studs until the multi tool is too hot to hold. Never had a failure in 6 years. Even my original batteries still work as well as the new. A slick bonus I found out being a compulsive tinkerer, the batteries that they sell as 18v 3ah are actually 24v 5ah. I always wondered why they lasted so long before I ripped a few apart. Samsung cells as well.
Except battery life in my experience.
While I agree with you on most accounts, Milwaukee drills have cheap switches on them, they’re usually the first to hang to go. The chucks seem kinda cheap too, but honestly that’s not enough for me to switch teams, I’m married to Milwaukee, and the divorce would just be too damn expensive at this point.
House Hilti: Unyielding. Immutable. Eternal.
You forgot house Black & Decker
DeWalt is owned by Stanley Black&Decker
Rigid are mostly Milwaukee tools but cheaper.
Ngl, I absolutely love rigid. Most have lifetime guarantees, even on batteries.
Never had to exercise them fortunately.
Two different companies. Milwaukee and Ryobi are owned by the same company though.
Incorrect, Ridgid and AEG are also part of TTI.
Choice is an illusion.
The company also sells power tools, largely made by TTI,
Not as clever as you think you are.
House Bauer/Atlas/Hercules/Warrior: Life is transient, why does your tool or battery need to last longer than the job?
House Festool: Expensive, but I shift the cost to my clients.
Also, pretty systainers for storage and German ordnung.
House Harbor Freight: Safety squints aren’t enough danger
That’s not a house it’s a harbor
Nah Makita is trash, unless you’re talking LXT, which is 36 volt. Most of the Milwaukee stuff comes out on top on the torque test channel on YouTube.
But also don’t forget House Skil: Issue
Quality-wise, Makita > DeWALT ≥ Milwaukee > Ryobi, at least, if you watch teardowns by guys like AvE.
Power tools are like cars; companies hold several brands and target them to different market segments, like Porsche and VW.
Ryobi is owned by the same company as Milwauki; it’s the budget line, Milwauki being their premium line.
DeWALT and Black & Decker are owned by the same company; DeWALT is their premium line.
The exception in this list is Makita, which is its own company. They’re also objectively more well-built than the others (here), and correspondingly usually more expensive.
The premium lines are better quality (not just more expensive) but also tend to have smaller battery-tool options. Despite being a budget line, I mostly own B&D because most of my tools these days are 24V and there are more tool options there. The few, select, DeWALT tools I have are noticably better quality.
I don’t use power tools enough to justify Makita, but also, their battery-powered line is comparatively tiny. As someone else said, there’s a lot of motivation to pick a (compatible) lane, whichever it is. For most home-gamers, the quality difference will probably not matter much. If I were made of money, though, I’d have everything Makita except for the things they don’t make.
I’m in that fifth house that no-one ever seems to talk about: BOSCH.
J/K, I’m mostly Bosch, but I look towards whichever manufacturer makes the best version of a tool I currently need. For example, my chainsaws and yard/orchard power tools are Stihl, my lawnmower is Husqvarna, my circular saw, worm drive saw and abrasion/steel cutoff saw are all Skilsaw (not Skil!), and my oscillating multi tool is Fein.
Plus, many of the domestics are vintage, from before production was outsourced out of America, which makes them much more reliable and robust than modern tools. Even some of the other tools are vintage – my Stihl 076 Super can cut through a 60cm log like a hot knife through butter. And I have both 36″ and 72″ bars to go with it.
Couple years back I went to the graduation party of a kid my step daughter was friends. The dad had an entire wall pegboarded out with every possible Ryobi cordless tool. It was honestly impressive. And he had one Makita tool. Made me laugh.
20v to house DeWalt!
