i’m gonna guess this is because of capitulating to the us
I honestly do not understand why the Government tries to appease Trump. What possible benefit to Canadians is there in this.
If you want to know to whom the PM capitulated, find a province with no shoreline.
In fact, two of the global EV leaders, Nepal and Ethiopia, have GDP per capita that is only two per cent of Canada’s. Two per cent. And yet they are switching to EVs at a dizzying pace,
If only 6% of your country can afford a car, then per-capita you’ll swing to EVs much faster.
It’s long past time we remove the tariffs on Chinese EVs. I think the only reason Carney hasn’t done it yet is because they want all trade levers available to negotiate CUSMA, but I think we may want to consider giving up on CUSMA entirely.
For that matter we should start building a much tighter relationship with China overall. They may end up being an ally, as strange as it sounds.
Allowing Chinese EVs to be imported will be the death of the auto industry in Canada. If they at least made the cars here that could be defensable but you do not want them being imported here even if you think you do.
They won’t be so cheap if they’re made here though, much harder to impose slave like conditions on your staff here.
Well, we can open the market to the Chinese, which you claim will destroy the Canadian market, but also get access to inexpensive Chinese cars, or wait until we have no market anyway since the US is going to fuck us, in which case we have no market and we won’t have access to inexpensive Chinese cars. The first sounds better to me.
I would prefer to get commitment to build Chinese cars in Canada, for sure. We already built BYD buses but we fucked ourselves on that in respect of the US as well.
Regarding losing our industry, I’m not sure that’s the case. We would lose the US but that’s probably already going to happen.
I’m guessing Carney is going to discuss with Xi in the trip. He’ll hold any potentials in his back pocket for leverage against the US in CUSMA talks.
I personally think we should be discussing a much deeper relationship with China, including military. Forget that US, they’re finished.
Or if we’re going to get fucked by the USA we can nationalize the factories we do have and make our own EV domestically instead of through the US OEMs. Or help a new Canadian EV OEM start if the US is going to abandon it.
Inviting China in is completely giving up on the topic and will result in 10s of thousands of jobs lost.
I would love to see a Canadian EV, but I can recognize that this may be quite difficult unless the government is willing to spend lots of money. You and I might be okay with this but as with everything it will be trade-off of how much risk we want to incur in a long term diversification that drains short term funds that we may need in short order for other priorities, versus get the industry up and running again with assembly plants building Chinese vehicles so we don’t completely collapse this year if the US decides to shit the bed.
I suspect Carney has this kind of decision to make.
Keep in mind that Carney is under attack for Stellantis. Imagine how much right wing dopes would foam at the mouth if billions were spent on a Canadian EV. Again I would probably be willing to listen to such a proposal, but I know there is more to this than me and my limited knowledge.
Seems like Ford and GM are blowing up their EV programs. Korea has good models. For battery plants, Stelantis/LG has started production, though Stelantis doesn’t make EVs. They are building for ESS. Volkswagen has started building a battery plant. Skyview 2 is primarily ESS too. Tons of cancelations though, and Governments begging for refunds.
may be quite difficult unless the government is willing to spend lots of money
The future of auto industry is more automation and less jobs. $50B in funding since 2020 could be more than $5M per direct job created, and then so many cancelled projects looks bad. The 2009 bailout was $150k per every worker. $75B in last 20 years for auto subisidies. At 1.9m vehicles sold per year, the $10B/year over last 5 years is $5000+/vehicle sold (without any consumer price breaks), which is ok metric if exports/imports balance, I doubt employment will increase. I’m sure another economic collapse will happen that politicians tell us need more auto sector subsidies
Getting to a more precise point, Canada has one of the largest auto markets in the world about equal to France and UK despite half the population. China investing its own money in Canada manufacturing of autos, robots with deal for Canadian supply chain and resources is probably Canada’s only future. It would provide much better value autos to consumers, and better value robots to Canadian manufacturers that lets them outcompete US. Canadian employment for factory building. EVs are better cars, and there would be no need for extra tax credits for good value vehicles.
Whether negotiating with US automakers or US government, posture should be that they need to make massive investments in Canada instead as compensation for past bailouts instead of weaseling more subsidies. Far more geopolitical tributes are owed by US to Canada. If they refuse then China, South east Asia, South Korea (a recent maybe), would be Canada’s economic future.
2m annual Canadian vehicle market is a prize that the world should covet, and give it to the highest bidder, instead of a false, for the future, political employment football. Instead of Canadian taxpayers paying $5k per vehicle, auto buyers could save $5-$15k on vehicles with lower insurance rates, and lower taxi/uber rates due to lower capital and fuel/maintenance costs.
Imagine how much right wing dopes would foam at the mouth if billions were spent on a Canadian EV
I’m just picturing some sort of MAGA Albertan with a F350 rolling coal everywhere saying Carney is trying to kill our oil industry.
You mentioned assembly plant, that could also be an option va importing complete cars.
local battery and motor plants with local materials would boost Canadian economy.
If we were doing assembly at least some could come from here ya. But it’s all out the window if they just cave and remove the import tarrif and welcome the cars in as is.
For that matter we should start building a much tighter relationship with China overall. They may end up being an ally, as strange as it sounds.
That’s sounds indeed strange, and it will never become reality. If and when Canada opts for a ‘tighter relationship’ with China, it will only weakens itself. China will use any leverage to bully its so-called ‘allies’ as it has been doing for decades. Canada won’t be an exemption (China’s tariffs on Canadian canola was a good example for this).
The only option for Canada is a strong diversification of its trade, particularly with democracies in Europe, in the Indo-Pacific, and elsewhere imo.
Canada’s relationship with China has been destroyed by our allegiance to the US and our alignment with their foreign policy and trade policy.
Frankly China is much more predictable and much less of a threat to me than the US, and to be honest I don’t believe any of the standard narratives coming out of the US or any of their treasonous backers.
Which are China’s allies? Literally all trade partners have increasing deficits, economic and political coercion is widespread, transnational repression has been increasing, China’s interference in domestic affairs and election is strong not only in Canada but everywhere. And that’s just a tiny selection of bad examples.
Just name one country that ever benefited from a ‘tight relationship’ with China in the long term?
Which non-Chinese company had ever long-term success in the Chinese domestic market?
Having said that, the choice is not just between the US and China. Canada must diversify its trade away from both the US and China.
China’s interference in domestic affairs and election is strong not only in Canada but everywhere
CIA talking point. Only CIA is allowed to determine elections.
Just name one country that ever benefited from a ‘tight relationship’ with China in the long term?
The ones where the US hasn’t invaded or created a puppet government in yet? All the US colonies are doing poorly in growth terms. Those trading freely with China are booming.
Which non-Chinese company ever had long-term success in the Chinese domestic market?
Companies: Volkswagen, GM, Tesla, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, Intel, Foxconn, Siemens, SAP, IBM, Sony, Panasonic, Coca-Cola, PepsiCo, P&G, Unilever, Nestle, L’Oreal, Nike, Adidas, Walmart, Costco, IKEA, KFC, Starbucks, McDonald’s, Haagen-Dazs, Budweiser, Shell, Exxon, Caterpillar, 3M, HSBC, J.P. Morgan, Goldman, Sequoia, McKinsey, Pfizer, AstraZeneca, J&J, Roche…
That list could go on for ages. These are just big ones, and there are whole sectors not even touched on.
Just name one country that ever benefited from a ‘tight relationship’ with China in the long term?
Okay.
Countries: Vietnam, Pakistan, Brazil, Australia, Russia, Indonesia, Cambodia, Laos, Ethiopia, Chile, Germany, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Singapore, Kazakhstan, Argentina, Nigeria, South Africa, Peru, Chile, Angola, Greece, Hungary, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Iran, Oman, Qatar, Algeria, Morocco, Ecuador, Bolivia, Sudan… and so on.
Seriously, why do you think so many companies have the China market as an essential component of their business, and have done for decades? And, why do you think most countries have China as their number one trading partner? They wouldn’t if they weren’t benefiting, but somehow you have either convinced yourself that you know better than all of them or you’re just posting entirely in bad faith.
Can you tell me how even one of them benefits?
These are just random lists of companies and countries. Literally all the countries, for example, have been showing increased trade deficits with China, while many trade their commodities and raw materials for high-end goods. Especially in Asia and Africa, they are prone to political and economic coercion (e.g., the Hambantota International Port in Sri Lanka, the country’s second largest port, is owned now by China, which is one reason why Sri Lanka’s government lacks de-facto economic independence).
Workers’ rights violations are widespread in literally all these countries, aggression against its neighbours on land and at sea. Just to name a few examples.
The ‘bad faith’ posting comes from you. This list is a very bad joke.
Random companies? These are all companies that have been doing huge business in China for years. Some have been there for 30 years or more and have China as a huge part of what makes them successful.
Go read some financial statements yourself. Go read some trade and investment data from countries.
You just posted one of the most absurdly ignorant statements possible about business and economic engagement with China in claiming that nobody has seen long-term benefits, and now you’re doubling down? It’s completely detached from reality.
If not for your posting history I would give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re just an uninformed and misinformed person, but people don’t set up sock puppets for good faith activity.
The numbers clearly say that there are no long-term benefits from trade and/or economic ties with China, except for China itself.
I agree that we need to diversify our trade and our economy, in particular economic output.
But China is the world’s next superpower. We should establish a strong relationship with them. Trade with them. And if needed - and it seems like it might be soon - ally with them militarily against the US.
Edit - you say
Literally all trade partners have increasing deficits, economic and political coercion is widespread, transnational repression has been increasing, China’s interference in domestic affairs and election is strong
And I can’t believe you don’t see that this is exactly what is happening to us with the US, but they also want to destroy us economically and potentially attack us militarily.
China will use any leverage to bully its so-called ‘allies’ as it has been doing for decades.
This is a false accusation. The alternative is waiting for loving US capital and policy to be more apparently loving.
The only option for Canada is a strong diversification of its trade, particularly with democracies in Europe, in the Indo-Pacific, and elsewhere imo.
Democracies that are determined, like Canada’s, by the CIA. Instead of having “fake democracy” values, value countries that aren’t corrupt. The US colonies aren’t in the list.
Enemy of my enemy. We should be expanding ties with China.
Nothing the Canadian government loves more than shooting themselves in the foot for oil profits.
It’s weird that I had to scroll to the bottom of the article to see the policy changes and the author weirdly doesn’t name the politicians or political parties.
