Canada’s relationship with China has been destroyed by our allegiance to the US and our alignment with their foreign policy and trade policy.
Frankly China is much more predictable and much less of a threat to me than the US, and to be honest I don’t believe any of the standard narratives coming out of the US or any of their treasonous backers.
Which are China’s allies? Literally all trade partners have increasing deficits, economic and political coercion is widespread, transnational repression has been increasing, China’s interference in domestic affairs and election is strong not only in Canada but everywhere. And that’s just a tiny selection of bad examples.
Just name one country that ever benefited from a ‘tight relationship’ with China in the long term?
Which non-Chinese company had ever long-term success in the Chinese domestic market?
Having said that, the choice is not just between the US and China. Canada must diversify its trade away from both the US and China.
That list could go on for ages. These are just big ones, and there are whole sectors not even touched on.
Just name one country that ever benefited from a ‘tight relationship’ with China in the long term?
Okay.
Countries: Vietnam, Pakistan, Brazil, Australia, Russia, Indonesia, Cambodia, Laos, Ethiopia, Chile, Germany, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Singapore, Kazakhstan, Argentina, Nigeria, South Africa, Peru, Chile, Angola, Greece, Hungary, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Iran, Oman, Qatar, Algeria, Morocco, Ecuador, Bolivia, Sudan… and so on.
Seriously, why do you think so many companies have the China market as an essential component of their business, and have done for decades? And, why do you think most countries have China as their number one trading partner? They wouldn’t if they weren’t benefiting, but somehow you have either convinced yourself that you know better than all of them or you’re just posting entirely in bad faith.
These are just random lists of companies and countries. Literally all the countries, for example, have been showing increased trade deficits with China, while many trade their commodities and raw materials for high-end goods. Especially in Asia and Africa, they are prone to political and economic coercion (e.g., the Hambantota International Port in Sri Lanka, the country’s second largest port, is owned now by China, which is one reason why Sri Lanka’s government lacks de-facto economic independence).
Workers’ rights violations are widespread in literally all these countries, aggression against its neighbours on land and at sea. Just to name a few examples.
The ‘bad faith’ posting comes from you. This list is a very bad joke.
Random companies? These are all companies that have been doing huge business in China for years. Some have been there for 30 years or more and have China as a huge part of what makes them successful.
Go read some financial statements yourself. Go read some trade and investment data from countries.
You just posted one of the most absurdly ignorant statements possible about business and economic engagement with China in claiming that nobody has seen long-term benefits, and now you’re doubling down? It’s completely detached from reality.
If not for your posting history I would give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re just an uninformed and misinformed person, but people don’t set up sock puppets for good faith activity.
I encourage anyone to go do the research for themselves. No need to trust me. They will easily find for themselves how wrong and manipulative the positions you’re pushing are. You are here actively misleading people.
There’s nothing bold about any claims I’m making for anyone that knows much at all about these topics.
Want a single example of a foreign business with long-term benefits in China? Take KFC. They’ve been in China since the 80s, have 2× as many restaurants in China as they do in the US, and almost double the revenue. Not long-term benefit? Sure seems like it to me.
Want an example of a country? Take Indonesia. $140B of annual bilateral trade. High-value infrastructure development. Development of their critical minerals industry and their green tech industry, including large projects like hydropower. Investment and building of industrial capacities such as smelting to do value-adding work domestically. All things that contribute to Indonesia’s improved competitiveness in the global economy, and helping them maintain an overall surplus in their global trade.
So, Indonesia is exporting raw materials and increasingly some value-added products from those, and this is what supports a trade surplus overall, and they’re importing low-cost consumer goods from China that allow better quality of life for people while also importing things like machinery to improve industrialization.
Doesn’t sound bad.
Anyone who knows much about these topics would know the bold claims are your absurd suggestions that no companies or countries have long-term benefits with China.
I agree that we need to diversify our trade and our economy, in particular economic output.
But China is the world’s next superpower. We should establish a strong relationship with them. Trade with them. And if needed - and it seems like it might be soon - ally with them militarily against the US.
Edit - you say
Literally all trade partners have increasing deficits, economic and political coercion is widespread, transnational repression has been increasing, China’s interference in domestic affairs and election is strong
And I can’t believe you don’t see that this is exactly what is happening to us with the US, but they also want to destroy us economically and potentially attack us militarily.
China’s interference in domestic affairs and election is strong not only in Canada but everywhere
CIA talking point. Only CIA is allowed to determine elections.
Just name one country that ever benefited from a ‘tight relationship’ with China in the long term?
The ones where the US hasn’t invaded or created a puppet government in yet? All the US colonies are doing poorly in growth terms. Those trading freely with China are booming.
Canada’s relationship with China has been destroyed by our allegiance to the US and our alignment with their foreign policy and trade policy.
Frankly China is much more predictable and much less of a threat to me than the US, and to be honest I don’t believe any of the standard narratives coming out of the US or any of their treasonous backers.
Which are China’s allies? Literally all trade partners have increasing deficits, economic and political coercion is widespread, transnational repression has been increasing, China’s interference in domestic affairs and election is strong not only in Canada but everywhere. And that’s just a tiny selection of bad examples.
Just name one country that ever benefited from a ‘tight relationship’ with China in the long term?
Which non-Chinese company had ever long-term success in the Chinese domestic market?
Having said that, the choice is not just between the US and China. Canada must diversify its trade away from both the US and China.
Companies: Volkswagen, GM, Tesla, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, Intel, Foxconn, Siemens, SAP, IBM, Sony, Panasonic, Coca-Cola, PepsiCo, P&G, Unilever, Nestle, L’Oreal, Nike, Adidas, Walmart, Costco, IKEA, KFC, Starbucks, McDonald’s, Haagen-Dazs, Budweiser, Shell, Exxon, Caterpillar, 3M, HSBC, J.P. Morgan, Goldman, Sequoia, McKinsey, Pfizer, AstraZeneca, J&J, Roche…
That list could go on for ages. These are just big ones, and there are whole sectors not even touched on.
Okay.
Countries: Vietnam, Pakistan, Brazil, Australia, Russia, Indonesia, Cambodia, Laos, Ethiopia, Chile, Germany, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Singapore, Kazakhstan, Argentina, Nigeria, South Africa, Peru, Chile, Angola, Greece, Hungary, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Iran, Oman, Qatar, Algeria, Morocco, Ecuador, Bolivia, Sudan… and so on.
Seriously, why do you think so many companies have the China market as an essential component of their business, and have done for decades? And, why do you think most countries have China as their number one trading partner? They wouldn’t if they weren’t benefiting, but somehow you have either convinced yourself that you know better than all of them or you’re just posting entirely in bad faith.
Can you tell me how even one of them benefits?
These are just random lists of companies and countries. Literally all the countries, for example, have been showing increased trade deficits with China, while many trade their commodities and raw materials for high-end goods. Especially in Asia and Africa, they are prone to political and economic coercion (e.g., the Hambantota International Port in Sri Lanka, the country’s second largest port, is owned now by China, which is one reason why Sri Lanka’s government lacks de-facto economic independence).
Workers’ rights violations are widespread in literally all these countries, aggression against its neighbours on land and at sea. Just to name a few examples.
The ‘bad faith’ posting comes from you. This list is a very bad joke.
Random companies? These are all companies that have been doing huge business in China for years. Some have been there for 30 years or more and have China as a huge part of what makes them successful.
Go read some financial statements yourself. Go read some trade and investment data from countries.
You just posted one of the most absurdly ignorant statements possible about business and economic engagement with China in claiming that nobody has seen long-term benefits, and now you’re doubling down? It’s completely detached from reality.
If not for your posting history I would give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re just an uninformed and misinformed person, but people don’t set up sock puppets for good faith activity.
The numbers clearly say that there are no long-term benefits from trade and/or economic ties with China, except for China itself.
I encourage anyone to go do the research for themselves. No need to trust me. They will easily find for themselves how wrong and manipulative the positions you’re pushing are. You are here actively misleading people.
What is your research? You’re posting a series of bold claims paired with second-hand intimidation, but no clear, verifiable information.
There’s nothing bold about any claims I’m making for anyone that knows much at all about these topics.
Want a single example of a foreign business with long-term benefits in China? Take KFC. They’ve been in China since the 80s, have 2× as many restaurants in China as they do in the US, and almost double the revenue. Not long-term benefit? Sure seems like it to me.
Want an example of a country? Take Indonesia. $140B of annual bilateral trade. High-value infrastructure development. Development of their critical minerals industry and their green tech industry, including large projects like hydropower. Investment and building of industrial capacities such as smelting to do value-adding work domestically. All things that contribute to Indonesia’s improved competitiveness in the global economy, and helping them maintain an overall surplus in their global trade.
So, Indonesia is exporting raw materials and increasingly some value-added products from those, and this is what supports a trade surplus overall, and they’re importing low-cost consumer goods from China that allow better quality of life for people while also importing things like machinery to improve industrialization.
Doesn’t sound bad.
Anyone who knows much about these topics would know the bold claims are your absurd suggestions that no companies or countries have long-term benefits with China.
I agree that we need to diversify our trade and our economy, in particular economic output.
But China is the world’s next superpower. We should establish a strong relationship with them. Trade with them. And if needed - and it seems like it might be soon - ally with them militarily against the US.
Edit - you say
And I can’t believe you don’t see that this is exactly what is happening to us with the US, but they also want to destroy us economically and potentially attack us militarily.
CIA talking point. Only CIA is allowed to determine elections.
The ones where the US hasn’t invaded or created a puppet government in yet? All the US colonies are doing poorly in growth terms. Those trading freely with China are booming.