I’m from Korea, and we impeached our president last year, mostly because he declared martial law, but he was also a terrible president, and no one really liked him being there, even his own party.
Why can’t the U.S do the same, if Donald Trump is so bad? Why are some Americans even supporting him?
Why didn’t Germany impeach Hitler in 1939?
Because in the US you have to have a legislature willing to impeach the president. and the legislature is currently being controlled by Trump’s party. also the courts. he has 100% control of the government and he’s doing whatever he wants. the only thing that could stop him now is a revolution.
So this is necessarily going to oversimplify things because it’s a comment on a website. I invite anyone who wants to add more insights or clarifications to do so:
So lets start with the issue of how this would happen: The only ways to remove US president from are political, not legal. We can either vote them out, or impeach them. Impeachment is not a legal proceeding held in courts, it’s a process that is kicked off by a vote in the House of Representatives and finished with a vote in the Senate. So whether or not a president can be impeached almost entirely depends on the political makeup of the legislature. Right now the Republicans have a majority, so unless they all have a stroke tomorrow and wake up with a conscience, such a vote will not pass any time soon.
So now we move on to the question of why our politics is this way. On a very fundamental level, the US isn’t a real democracy. I’ll try to highlight the factors I think are most relevant:
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We have a very powerful capitalist class that is able to use its immense wealth to deeply influence politics. While this has always been the case to some degree or another, (fluctuating with some significant historical events) the Citizens United https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC Supreme Court decision essentially codified the right of these capitalists to spend unlimited amounts of money to influence politics. The result of this is that the vast majority of our politicians in significant positions support capitalists, as they likely wouldn’t be there without their assistance. This unites them in various matters having to do with benefiting the capitalist class, either directly through low taxes, lax regulations, etc, or indirectly through supporting the capacity for the state to engage in violence, as this violence is necessary to both maintain their power against the working class as well as go around the world stealing shit from everyone else. Even if Democrats and Republicans disagree on a broad range of issues, they will generally be united in matters that secure their power and the power of their donors. So even if they dislike some of what Trump does, or at least the optics of how he’s doing it, they’re not going to push back too hard because some of the stuff he is doing is stuff they value anyway.
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US elections are structurally designed in a way that limits people’s choices and overall influence on the outcomes. First Past the Post voting, a voting system in which the winner is merely the person who got the most votes, even if they aren’t the one which a majority of people want. In a race between 3 candidates, a, b, and c, a gets 34%, b gets 33%, and c gets 33%, a wins even though he not only barely has more votes than the other candidates individually, but also that the other candidates are collectively more popular than him. More people DIDN’T want him than did, but he still wins. This means that lets say candidates b and c are politically closer to each other than they are to a, even if they disagree on some stuff, then the result of both of them running and allowing a to win is that now neither of them get a candidate who is even close to what they want. This means that in a system like this, a 3rd party ALWAYS acts as a spoiler. This effectively pushes 3rd parties out of serious competition for the race. Fewer parties = fewer choices = less likely that there is a candidate who you will like to vote for = less representation in government. And because people are unlikely to vote 3rd party for the above reason, this makes those voters essentially captive to the other party, because if they don’t vote for them, they will get the worse option. Meaning that party has even less incentive to try to attract these voters by listening to their interests.
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The other structural issue is gerrymandering. Elections are based on districts and those district boundaries are decided by politicians. So the same people who can benefit from how the districts are set up are the same people who get to actually do the drawing. There are all sorts of ways to gerrymander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering to get a favorable result for your party. So not only does this allow parties to cheat, it effectively allows politicians to pick their constituents, further freeing them of the competitive need to be responsive to their needs.
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Through the use of the aforementioned state power and tons of propaganda, any semblance of a labor movement has been crushed. The US does not have a class which is politically united by common material interests. Without this uniting force and without the solidarity that comes from directly working with others, the US has effectively been able to divide the working class along other lines. Racial, cultural, etc. It’s also pretty easy to make them irrationally fear each other because if you never actually meet with someone, you’re more likely to believe what others tell you about them. Between the war on drugs and war on terror, the government spent over a decade making people afraid of foreigners and various other minority groups.
The result of all of this is that the US does not have any real left flank. It has no significant political force that’s primary concern is the welfare of everyone. Instead we have the stupid loud Nazis and the college educated closet Nazis who wear nice suits and talk good. In the past decade or so as the illusion of shared prosperity deteriorated, it’s become more clear to more people how broken things are and they are disappointed in the politicians who made it that way and/or fail to adequately and honestly commit to addressing these issues in the future. Neither party will address these issues for the aforementioned reasons, so now we are seeing essentially a marketing battle. Republicans are really charismatic towards people who align with them culturally and know how to rile them up to engage in politics. Democrats are… boring. They are empty suits. They look like your image of the stereotypical politician. Perhaps with the exception of Obama, who was a uniquely charismatic figure in politics in this period of history even if he wasn’t much less corporate than any other politician. So 2016 rolls around, people are discontent after a disappointing 8 years of Obama letting them down, and the election was between a TV personality who knew how to get people riled up and an ancient politician who was so out of touch with regular people that she barely seemed human. Nobody was getting excited to go vote for more of the same and she certainly wasn’t going to score any voters off charm. Fast forward to 2020, we end up with Biden after the DNC did everything they could do block out a more likable candidate and I’m reasonably sure that the ONLY reason he won was in reaction to just how terrible Trump’s term was. Then we get 4 more years of empty suit, people get disappointed, and now we’re at 2024. Remember how They put up yet another boring politician nobody trusts or likes. Meanwhile, remember how we spent over a decade making people afraid of foreigners? Well even though both parties are responsible for some combination of those policies and messaging, who is going to be better at capitalizing on that fear and hatred? The boring closet Nazis? Or the really loud, dumb Nazis who play into people’s fear and hatred? So surprise! They pick the loud Nazi over the next empty suit the Democrats ran. But hey, to the politicians and the capitalists they represent, this is still preferable to an actual left wing candidate winning. Keeping people divided and distracted is currently the best way for them to maintain power.
So now that we have the fascist in power, the people who need to do their job to stand up to him either can’t or won’t. Ask yourself how you can expect a politician to resist one fascist when they are actively supporting another fascist committing a genocide? Are these people who have the political principles or will to be genuinely against state violence, overreach, or violations of human rights? And even if they did, they don’t have the majority needed to do anything about it.
So yeah, I wouldn’t expect Trump to get impeached any time soon. The soonest it could possibly happen would be after the mid-term elections in 2026, but that’s assuming the Republicans don’t do anything to get in the way of that election. (Also, I don’t actually know, is the Senate up for grabs in the next election? Only about 1/3rd of the seats are in contest each election, so I don’t know if the current makeup is such that the Senate could change hands next election.) I’m not optimistic about this, but who knows?
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White Americans have yet to feel the harm. Trump’s policies have hurt minorities mostly. The white farmers have been promised subsidies to offset the losses from tariffs. There’s no real sense of community in the US either. People only vote for their narrow and specific self interest.
impeach DEAR LEADER DUMPY???
American here.
Because Americans are stupid.
Well, enough are anyway.
This is the country that made a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist with one failed presidency under his belt our leader…again.
We did already impeach him…twice. But now Republicans are in total control (see stupid Americans comment above), so Republicans would have to impeach him this time, but they’re all spineless fascists, so that isn’t happening. In America impeachment is just the first step, then the Senate has to actually remove them. After the first two impeachments the spineless fascist Republicans in the Senate refused to remove him, even though it was at the very end of his first term and gave them the perfect opportunity to permanently rid themselves of him. But again, they are spineless fascists.
Why do many Americans support him? It’s a combination of stupidity, ignorance, hate, and fear. Humans who don’t receive a proper education or upbringing end up being easily manipulated by those things. That’s the case here in America. Expect it to get a whole lot worse.
We did. Twice.
Impeachment is essentially the official accusation. This then has to go to trail in the Senate, and the Senate has never been un-corrupt enough to convict him.
In the words of Gomez Adams, “Well aren’t you a lady killer?” “Acquitted!”
Trump’s party has a majority in both Congressional houses. Also, for impeachment to become a conviction, you need 2/3 of the vote in the Senate to get Trump pushed out of office. That will require several of Trump’s party’s senators to vote for impeachment. During the last Trump impeachment, only one of Trump’s party voted for impeachment and he is no longer a senator.
I thought the law required equal bipartisan representation across the board. Did Trump somehow circumnavigate that law?
A Senate impeachment trial is effectively a vote of the Senate. It doesn’t require bipartisanship.
We impeached him twice. He just didn’t get removed.
What is an impeachment then? I thought the result of an impeachment would be the removal of the president.
It’s kind of a vote of no confidence that then requires the US Senate to hold a “trial” on whether to remove. Essentially, the House (a more general populace representative body) says "he is bad and should be reviewed’. Then the Senate (which more represents the states, not the public) decides whether to agree and then a removal happens if they do.
Otherwise? It’s just the Senate saying “he’s fine and we’re okay with it”, which is what the Republicans are. They’re okay with crime and hatred of fellow Americans as long as it’s their people doing the hating and criming.
Wow, that’s not very useful then, is it?
It relies mostly upon people feeling shame about being denounced. Being impeached is mostly about an official denouncement.
If you don’t care, then it means nothing to the individual. It then falls upon the citizens to actually give a fuck about their country having leadership who is more positive than negative. What we’ve learned in the last handful of years is that about 30% of voters would vote for a king if that king hates the same people they do. Another 30% don’t care who runs anything, so a king is fine with them.
So… A ruling monarch the US will have. It’s nearing the end of the Republic and Orange Fürher has crossed the Rubicon. Apparently no one cares enough to really deal with it, but we’ll surely see lots of walking around on a weekend as to not cause any inconvenience.
Yes, I feel No Kings is the right message, but the actual wherewithal to enforce the Republic isn’t visible yet.
What a freaking nothing burger. What a flawed system.
Yep. Trump has showed every weakness in American government in such extreme ways that if we don’t change those weaknesses we can never expect anything but worse than trump.
Impeachment is basically voting for there to be a hearing. You can think of it like an indictment. But then he has to be convicted at the hearing and be removed. Which will never ever happen in a senate controlled by Republicans.
The system is flawed. These “safety systems” being controlled politically rather than by law is absolutely broken. 😆 Who thought up this asinine system?
Men with morals and standards; however flawed some of them were. They didn’t conceive that an honourable elected official would act egregiously outside the norms of decorum, respect, dignity; basically, “gentleman’s rules.” Respect for your fellow countrymen; at least those of equal or better status to your own; was baked into society, so it wasn’t even a consideration. In that regard at least, it was maybe a better time (JUST in that regard; limited though it was).
Now no one gives two shits about anything. If some deranged, narcissistic, prevaricating dimwit tells people it’s okay to hate the other people they already want to hate; and that hate gives them even a moment’s relief from their shitty lives (lives largely ruined by similar prevaricating dimwits) then that man can, and shall, be their king.
I definitely think there was more honor back in those days. I mean, thieves have always existed, but I remember even my grandfather said he never even had a lock on the front door, or needed a lock on his car, or his bike, wherever he went. People didn’t steal shit from people. At least in the city where he lived. (It was a very Christian and religious place back then; everyone went to church.)
I definitely think there was more honor back in those days. I mean, thieves have always existed
The thieves and criminals that existed back then were truly vile though. These days, someone might break a window and carry off your TV. In those days, the thieves would take everything you owned and then press you into lifelong servitude, beating you if you ever disobeyed, they would even steal your children away from you and do the same to them.
And nobody did shit about it. Why? Because these thieves were “honorable” because there were “gentlemen’s agreements” and “decorum” and “civility” meant that they were allowed to do whatever the hell they wanted to those who were considered “racially inferior.”
If that’s what honor means, then fuck honor. Fuck this civility fetishism, this nostalgia for a time of greater injustice and oppression. Half the problems we have today is because of these evil and idiotic founders setting up a stupid dysfunctional system, in some ways designed to be dysfunctional because they were afraid of “the masses” voting according to their own interests and freeing the slaves the elites relied on for their lavish lifestyles.
If that’s what honor means
That’s… not what I meant by honor, no. 😳
Source?
Christianity these days is a whole different animal.
At least Christian extremism like you see in America.
An impeachment is basically a political indictment. It’s the step before the political equivalent of a trial, not the result of it.
Trump “won” both his trials because the Senate was too corrupt to vote to remove.
I suppose a system is free from corruption as much as the people in it/controlling it. 🙈
All states ultimately serve one class of society, which rests on who owns and controls the large firms and key industries, ie which form of ownership is the principle aspect of the economy and therefore forms the basis of the mode of production and distribution. Capitalist economies always serve capitalists, while socialist countries serve the working class.
Because the political machinery is captive to the ruling class.
To expand on this a bit: impeachment in a liberal democracy isn’t meant as a tool for the people to remove a president that doesn’t serve their interests. It is meant as a tool for the wealthy and powerful (the venn diagram there is almost a circle) to remove a president that doesn’t serve their interests. Look at who’s paying the congresspeople and their parties. Their donors, for all intents and purposes, get to decide whether to impeach. (those same donors also control the vast majority of the media, so they can shape public opinion/manufacture consent too).
So far the wealthy have no reason to dislike Trump, so he’ll stay in power for a while. If that changes (due to dementia or otherwise) he might get impeached. I think the most likely way for that to happen is if his dumb ass crashes the real sector again in a way that hurts the rich, a-la 2020. It sadly comes down to a game of chance here: his austerity measures and trying to “save a buck” on vital government functions make a disaster more likely, but not guaranteed.
It’s the same in South Korea: the only reason the president was removed is because his erratic actions while trying to cling to power hurt the interests of the wealthy directly. The people had very little to do with it; it could have very easily gone very different, if the military (which was present at the time of the protests) got slightly different orders, or the congress people got slightly different whispers in their ears.
Because impeachment is only the first step of the process, and removing him from office would require a 2/3 majority after he’s impeached. Currently, his supporters hold a majority in every branch of the government, which is how they’ve been able to pass so much heinous shit in such a short period. So there’s no chance of that 2/3 vote happening under the current congress.
He’s been impeached twice already. What will a third impeachment accomplish? We’ve already shown that it’s just theatrics and he doesn’t give a shit…
If we get majority in 2026, he will be impeached. That’s why he’s attacking all things voting. Districts, machines, and methods.
Let’s be real - if they get a majority, the Dems will find a way to delay the impeachment until the end of his term, in the hopes of getting more votes in 2028. They already pulled the same shit twice.
I love how you launder “building an airtight case” into “find a way to delay”.
While Law and Order gets to cut to the trial 9 months later, we have to wait for the investigation and evidence collection and 23 different warring writs and motions to fight it out, all in real-time.
If your country can’t prosecute the leader of an insurrection in four years and has to let him run for president again, it’s already a failed state.
If we get majority in 2026
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Democrats couldn’t be bothered to even meet the left halfway when dems were actively supporting a genocide. Dems will never win again.
Here’s another great one. You spell “Some Dems wanted more international meddling in the Middle East; and when the party didn’t put forth a plan to be world police they voted for the Russian agent just to fuck themselves” very oddly.
And also free speech, free press, rights in general… And I also can’t shake the feeling that the government shutdown was a ploy to attempt to delay or cancel both upcoming elections.
They will definitely try. They can’t win without some form of cheating.
Do they even have to cheat when Dems are so pathetic and self-sabotaging?
Because America is a completely corrupt society hiding behind the facade of a first world country. It’s an example of how capitalism rewards the shittiest people who have no empathy for others unless they can benefit from them.
Pretty much this.
The short answer to OPs question is: he still has support from republicans, oligarchs, and voters.
The reasons are complex but I think there are several.
Firstly no compulsory voting. Honestly the US could barely be called a “democracy” before the current shit show.
Also the “both sides” narrative perpetuated even by those on the left, to their own detriment. The left literally protesting against their own side.
America’s history of violence, racism.
Late stage capitalism - people are desperate and will follow along with populist policies even if they are lies.
Checks and balances keeping everything just a tiny sliver to the sane side of abject chaos. Like the tariffs in April - Trump rode right up to the edge but chickened out. If he hadn’t he would’ve lost control after the global financial economy collapsed.
Religion. Not sure what the situation is in Korea but it can’t be as bad as the US. Christianity in the US is just a salve to allow assholes to justify their shit behavior.
I could go on.
Like what @[email protected] said, what do you mean the left is protesting against “their own side?” The DNC isn’t left, it’s a right-wing party.
Ah yes, bothsidesing. As I said …
You still didn’t answer. It’s one side, the DNC and GOP are right-wing parties.
You realise this is exactly the message GOP propaganda bots push right ?
Imagine saying exactly what Trump’s strategists want you to say yet still somehow believing you’re progressive.
The DNC is a right-wing party of capital. I’m a communist, the DNC cannot and will not represent me nor the workong class. Only their donors.
Break your electoral chains
The left literally protesting against their own side.
Sorry, who on the left did the left protest against?
The dems may not be left enough for you but they are your progressive party. Protesting against them for their position on Gaza is the biggest self-own in the history of democracy.
Sorry I’m not going to engage with this dumbassery. I’m not even American.
You guys shat your own bed and the stench is wafting around the globe.
Your other arguments may have their own merits, but the dems are factually not part of the left. As a leftist, I don’t support right wing candidates. Whether you think I should have voted for them anyway is a separate argument
As I said I’m not engaging with this ridiculous position.
You were captured by GOP propaganda a year ago, and still haven’t managed to unravel your delusion even though they don’t need you anymore.
I have to begrudgingly admit they did a great job, developing assets like you who are still parroting their talking points a year later for free.
You are engaging in wrecker behavior. The DNC and GOP are both right-wing parties, and you’re here scolding people for refusing to fall for the same electoralist pressure valve.
Join an org.
You were captured by GOP propaganda a year ago
Socialist criticism of liberalist parties isn’t a recent thing.
Here’s a short newspaper article by Lenin in 1913 writing about the left-wing Labour Party in Australia, a few years after it became the world’s first social democratic government at a national level (well, it was socdem at the time, it’s since drifted rightward): https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/jun/13.htm
This is hilarious. Thank you for the content
South Korea is a capitalist economy…this has nothing to do with capitalism…
The ROK also rewards the megawealthy above all else, they even have a special word for them: chaebol. Capitalism everywhere is crumbling and dying.
Sure thing
Yep.
You mean the country that’s ruled by megacorporations, has a latent caste system, and was recently the theatre of an attempted coup? Yeah seems like they’re doing great.
They impeached their president…seems democracy is working pretty well there.
Let’s see who runs NK?
Who runs russia?
Who runs china?
O right, lifetime appointments with rigged elections…got it.
And why are China or Russia relevant here?
Because you’re in a tankie sub with tankies spouting off random shit about capitalism being the root of all evil…while you posted more shit about capitalism being the true cause and not the fact that shit humans exist no matter what system is in place.
Why they vote for him in the first place lol
Because the vote was rigged and Elon Musk basically bought Trump the election.
I believe that as well but there is no solid proof as far as I know.
If money influencing US democracy and policy is a problem, you’ll have to cancel all of it and start of from scratch.
