I’ve been thinking about this amped up conservative rhetoric that liberals and leftists hate America. We all know that’s BS. Right? Except it’s not, and we should respond to it for what it is.

“I love an America I grew up in. I love an America I believe in, that I lived most of my life in. Now, the idea of America that you’re fighting and “winning” for is killing that America I live in, that I love. So you’re right. I hate what you imagine America to be… because it is trying to murder the America that I love. And I don’t use the word “murder” lightly, and I apply it to you. And if that means to you that I hate America… then you’re right! The America you believe in isn’t lovable.”

That’s all.

  • MagicShel@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    2 days ago

    You imagine I thought America was wonderful before Trump? No. I love America and will fight to make it better, not because I’m suddenly shocked to discover it’s not what I always thought it was, but because I’ve always fought for it to be better.

    What do you think you participated in as a soldier?

    Mostly, cleaning things.

    • LeninWeave [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      24
      ·
      edit-2
      2 days ago

      Mostly, cleaning things.

      This is a weak deflection. You were part of a system whose purpose is to destroy the lives people around the world who might harm US hegemony. Some members of the British navy at the height of their colonial power only cleaned warehouses, they still maintained a system that enslaved and massacred hundreds of millions. You should be ashamed of having been an American soldier, not proud to have served your country.

      • MagicShel@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 days ago

        Hmm… sorry, no. I was no more a part of that situation than any other citizen. And I’m not ashamed in the least. Not. In. The. Least.

        • LeninWeave [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          22
          ·
          edit-2
          2 days ago

          Hmm… sorry, no. I was no more a part of that situation than any other citizen. And I’m not ashamed in the least. Not. In. The. Least.

          Other than being part of the army, lmao. Didn’t know all of the citizens of the US served in the military, you learn something new every day.

          “I’m not ashamed I contributed to and participated in the oppression and domination of most of the world” is not the good reply you think it is. The American military just weeks ago finished helping Israel strike their neighbors to allow them to more easily continue their genocide. Rethink your pride.

          • MagicShel@lemmy.zip
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            2 days ago

            I had literally nothing to do with that. I haven’t been in the army in almost 30 years. But also, oppression and domination isn’t all the army does. Or even mostly. I fixed mine detectors, and mines are a particularly horrific form of warfare, particularly to civilians. And you have the whole corps of engineers. Plenty of jobs in the army are just jobs.

            But insofar as I was part of the big stick that enabled speaking softly to succeed, yeah I’m proud of that.

            • Chana [none/use name]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              18
              ·
              2 days ago

              But insofar as I was part of the big stick that enabled speaking softly to succeed, yeah I’m proud of that.

              “Speak softly and carry a big stick” is a reference to Teddy Roosevelt and his military-backed coups, invasions, and threats to control and disrupt Caribbean, Central American, and South American countries and people. Teddy Roosevelt himself was deeply racist and did his best to finalize anti-indigenous American genocide campaigns.

              The kind of things you helped with, just not written about correctly in the history books yet.

              So, which wars did you assist by “cleaning”?

            • LeninWeave [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              19
              ·
              2 days ago

              But insofar as I was part of the big stick that enabled speaking softly to succeed, yeah I’m proud of that.

              For a brief shining second I thought you had said “not proud”. Was Fallujah “speaking softly”?

                  • MagicShel@lemmy.zip
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 day ago

                    Let me go check my map, but I’m pretty sure Libya is still there. Also pretty sure their government was horrific to their own people, who were the ones who killed Gaddafi.

                    Like America has done some bad shit you could call out, but Libya?

                    Also, to withhold my vote from Obama would’ve been a vote for someone even worse in respect to foreign policy.

                  • MagicShel@lemmy.zip
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    2 days ago

                    I can vote, and I can agitate for change for the better, which is what I said in my very first post. We are betraying the diversity and inclusion that is central to the things that made this nation better.

            • Ram_The_Manparts [he/him]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              12
              ·
              1 day ago

              But insofar as I was part of the big stick that enabled speaking softly to succeed, yeah I’m proud of that.

              This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I’ve ever read, so congrats on that picard