It’s not much better in the rest of the West too. Turns out that building a society where money and career determines your social status and doing unpaid work like taking care of a family and raising children is not valued at all and even very expensive makes people choose to have less or no children.
People of course do want children, but those that do very often will choose one or two children, below replacement rate.
I lived and worked in Japan before returning to the US. It’s much worse in Japan. When you leave college, you’re basically employed for life by one company. Your place in society is determined by your work in that company. My company was one of the more progressive ones. Salaried personnel still had to clock in and out to prevent people from working too much overtime. People put in great effort to cheat the time clock and put in more overtime than would be acceptable. People would get to work an hour early and leave at 10pm. There was little effort to make work more efficient because the employees can just work more. The company had an employee discount deal with customer products and employees were pressured into buying their products. It’s much better in America where the common tactic is to switch jobs every few years. America has a long way to go when it comes to work, but saying it’s almost as bad as Japan is just not true.
Do they? I mean, even if first-world people aren’t as well-off as they could theoretically be, they’re still much better off than people in poor counties (or their own ancestors a hundred years ago). But those people in poor countries and those ancestors have/had a lot more children. Meanwhile people in Sweden have fewer children than people in the USA.
I think that many people in first-world countries do not in fact want children.
(And within a country, poor people have more children than rich people, so actually making more people poor would increase fertility.)
I am not sure if it’s really “I don’t want children” or more “I want a career (too)”. In Sweden 76 % of women are employed versus 57 % of women in USA. There are also more women with higher education in Sweden than in the USA.
You have to decide whether you want a career or a child. And when a good career is a viable and achievable option, you decide to have a career instead.
I wanted children, but I wanted to be independent and not poor when I am older, more. I know so many women who are poor and lonely because they did not focus on their jobs. While I am often sad to not have children, I’d never give up my independence and safety cushion just for that biological urge. I know of many women who think the same way.
Sure, and people in the south are popping them out like crazy even though they definitely can’t fucking afford them and need constant welfare support (that they’ll turn around and rail against politically) so it’s clear that things like education are also involved.
If people understood the scarcity of resources and their own earning potential they’d be fucking TERRIFIED of having children. Since they’re all dumbass hicks, they just fuck and don’t think about it. I’m sure Uncle Sam will show up with a other WIC check to help their poor decisions.
Turns out that building a society where money and career determines your social status and doing unpaid work like taking care of a family and raising children is not valued at all and even very expensive makes people choose to have less or no children.
In my country the state taxes the shit out of us while pays for the children of non-working people (there’s a shitload of subsidies going into their pockets), so that doesn’t help at all. What people need is money in their pockets, so having a children doesn’t bankrupt a family.
Because the US is one of the best examples of your desire to see the children of poor and unemployed people starve?
“G-g-g-get a grip, I don’t like my shitty views being challenged and I can’t actually defend them”
Mate if you’re going to post dumb shit you probably should have a better response than that.
I’m assuming you’re not actually very dedicated to the idea of starving children, that’s just something you’ve heard and parroted because your own economic status is precarious
So you pretty much called me dumb because I’m poor?
And also, that since you don’t agree with my economic views, Im just “brainwashed”? Seriously? That’s your argument? Seriously, go see the world, every country that actually applied your way of thinking ended up having a lot more children starving than the ones who apply my views.
State shouldn’t be taxing workers because some morons who decided to have children when they’re not supposed to don’t want to go work for 7$ a hour. Get a fucking grip and grow up “mate”
You’re poor because you’re one or two crippling events away from poverty, you’re dumb because you’re choosing to be.
I’ve been to the US and the level of poverty is horrific. Meanwhile China has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty.
The idea of “brainwashing” came from returned American POWs who learned that they were getting a shitty deal from American capitalists who profiteered while the soldiers were firebombing Asia, so no, I don’t think you’re brainwashed. I think you’re a classic middle-class westerner attacking the poor because you see yourself as part of the actual wealthy class even if you’re not. You might have to examine why you’re not on $7 an hour, or if you were born unlucky, $2 a day.
Finally we see the true emerge - eugenicist takes on how poor people shouldn’t have children, and then how their children (who didn’t actually consent to be born) should be punished for that
this pigbrained subhuman cruelty betrays you as an american citizen, thank god your shithole is in decline lol you should all rot and die there for the good of the world
There are Americans that routinely get sent to jail protesting/fighting to change America for the better every day. There are those of us in this very thread that agree with you calling the other commentor a pigbrained subhuman. The strict adherence to an absolutely shit narrative given to them by Reich Wing Media disgusts a large portion of our population.
It’s not entirely our fault that propaganda is so effective at keeping the absolute worst possible people in office and rotting the brains of our neighbors. The blame rests on the oligarchs and ultra wealthy assholes looking to divide and conquer, turning all of us against each other while they laugh all the way to their 3rd private island…
I agree, some of you are alright, it is the elite of america and the very notion of “america” as a nation itself which must ultimately face justice for this situation. I hope you have a good day.
America falling apart would be horrifyingly destructive for the rest of the world, for it will allow other corrupt capitalist powers that are, let’s be honest, not as humane, take over the rest of the world.
Then again, the destabilization of the U.S. is well under way and our collapse is inevitable so I guess disputing it is a moot point.
America falling apart would be horrifyingly destructive for the rest of the world, for it will allow other corrupt capitalist powers that are, let’s be honest, not as humane, take over the rest of the world.
Well technically the continuation of america is more destructive than its inevitable decline, since america has a very awful pattern of killing millions of people for the enrichment of its elite, via means such as invasions, installing genocidal puppet leaders, and corporate extraction. The worst part is that america often destroys countries just as their people are on the brink of greater liberation.
Notable examples include:
Installing the Taliban in Afghanistan to oppose a Socialist government then destroying it
Destroying Iraq for Oil
Helping quash the Protocommunist Taiping Rebellion in China
The current blockade of Cuba
The current blockade of North Korea
The murder of socialist president Salvador Allende in Chile and the installation of Pinochet, a neoliberal dictator
The Contras
Sending $3 billion a year to isntreal for the mass killing of Palestinians
The genocide of first nations peoples on the North American continent itself
Assassinating Fred Hampton and the political killings of the Black Panther Party
Meddling in the affairs of practically every single third world country on Earth
Fucking Monsanto and their land grabbing bullshit
It is also probably the most inhumane of the corrupt capitalist powers as revealed in the details of these genocidal ventures either by using its own weapons or by proxy.
As such, the death of america would enable the possibility of a flourishing of socialist nations without the threat of the worlds most powerful military brought to full bear against their people for daring to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.
…Until Russia and China start doing literally the same things if not worse. Russia wouldn’t hesitate to nuke countries that wouldn’t play ball with it, for example.
China has a no first nuclear use policy, and the USSR/Russia used to but dropped it down to threats to territorial integrity.
The United States has refused to adopt a no first use policy and says that it “reserves the right to use” nuclear weapons first in the case of conflict.
Both NATO and a number of its member states have repeatedly rejected calls for adopting a NFU policy, as during the lifetime of the Soviet Union a pre-emptive nuclear strike was commonly argued as a key option to afford NATO a credible nuclear deterrent, compensating for the overwhelming conventional weapon superiority enjoyed by the Soviet Army in Eurasia.
Until Russia and China start doing literally the same things if not worse.
Probably not, China is on record, better than the United States in that it does not destabilize burgeoning socialist governments nor engage in one-sided business deals with third world nations to cripple them with debt like how the west does in Africa. Furthermore, they have no historical precedent of engaging in genocidal colonialist ventures in countries halfway around the world from them. If China were top dog they would just be free to expand mutually beneficial international relations at a greater rate then they are doing now without fear of america and its allies nuking them for stepping out of line.
Russia, on the other hand, is truly a failed state that is also in decline. They have a dogshit military that can’t even take a small pissant nation headed by a film star right on its border. It is very unlikely that Russia, in its current form, will be able to reach the same level of economic and military domination that america currently possesses.
Fundamentally, one of the other reasons why China and Russia are unlikely to do the same things is because they are not settler-colonial nations born from genocide. The ideology of Manifest Destiny, invading a militarily inferior nation, slaughtering every single one of the people there, plundering its resources, and settling the land for the sake of “Personal Freedom” (the American Dream), is a unique historical pattern that the very idea of america as a nation is contingent on.
America falling apart would be horrifyingly destructive for the rest of the world, for it will allow other corrupt capitalist powers that are, let’s be honest, not as humane, take over the rest of the world.
This is what every imperial power says about itself
When you work 8 hours a day, have 1 hour lunch break, waste 2 hours commuting, to earn barely enough of what Adam Smith considers ideal (twice the cost of living), it’s hard to sustain a second person, much less a third that requires near constant monitoring for over 7 years.
From a pure economic perspective, a child is a total money sink for at least 18 years. In many places (mostly urban), it’s simply not viable to have one.
Short term, raise the minimum wage. Force walmart to fill the gaps between what they pay and what their workers need to live. Right now, it’s the government is subsidizing that gap.
We kinda need lobbying and it would be very hard to effectively criminalize it. It would just move father into the back rooms. When I say we need it, groups like the EFF, NAACP, FFRF and ACLU all have lobbying arms.
A different idea proposed by Lawrence Lessig would be to remove elected officials from the legislative branch and replace it it something like the Jury Duty system from the court systems. While not perfect, it would be much harder to bribe a constantly rotating group of civilians and most people will vote in their interest even when it’s against their party alignment on a case by case bases.
Lobbyists would become like courtroom lawyers either pushing for or against certain laws in a public settings.
The US government already subsidizes companies like Wal-Mart and Amazon because they force their lowest-paid employees to apply for food stamps even though they work.
But how high is the rate of unemployment in your country? In Germany it is really low, so it probably costs a working person only a few euros per month to support all children of unemployed persons. Not sure if it is worth it to not help these children as they are already severely disadvantaged. Not to mention it can be seen as an investment in these children.
You would be surprised how many people actually cost the state money instead of bringing in money via tax in some countries. The problem isn’t the few unemployed people who could potentially work, the problem is that wages between high earners and low earners are out of proportion.
Incentivizing people to have children is pretty important for a society to continue on. Most societies are based around there being more young people than old people. When you reverse that, you historically don’t have enough people working to keep the country chugging along.
It’s not much better in the rest of the West too. Turns out that building a society where money and career determines your social status and doing unpaid work like taking care of a family and raising children is not valued at all and even very expensive makes people choose to have less or no children.
People of course do want children, but those that do very often will choose one or two children, below replacement rate.
I lived and worked in Japan before returning to the US. It’s much worse in Japan. When you leave college, you’re basically employed for life by one company. Your place in society is determined by your work in that company. My company was one of the more progressive ones. Salaried personnel still had to clock in and out to prevent people from working too much overtime. People put in great effort to cheat the time clock and put in more overtime than would be acceptable. People would get to work an hour early and leave at 10pm. There was little effort to make work more efficient because the employees can just work more. The company had an employee discount deal with customer products and employees were pressured into buying their products. It’s much better in America where the common tactic is to switch jobs every few years. America has a long way to go when it comes to work, but saying it’s almost as bad as Japan is just not true.
Do they? I mean, even if first-world people aren’t as well-off as they could theoretically be, they’re still much better off than people in poor counties (or their own ancestors a hundred years ago). But those people in poor countries and those ancestors have/had a lot more children. Meanwhile people in Sweden have fewer children than people in the USA.
I think that many people in first-world countries do not in fact want children.
(And within a country, poor people have more children than rich people, so actually making more people poor would increase fertility.)
I am not sure if it’s really “I don’t want children” or more “I want a career (too)”. In Sweden 76 % of women are employed versus 57 % of women in USA. There are also more women with higher education in Sweden than in the USA.
You have to decide whether you want a career or a child. And when a good career is a viable and achievable option, you decide to have a career instead.
I wanted children, but I wanted to be independent and not poor when I am older, more. I know so many women who are poor and lonely because they did not focus on their jobs. While I am often sad to not have children, I’d never give up my independence and safety cushion just for that biological urge. I know of many women who think the same way.
Sure, and people in the south are popping them out like crazy even though they definitely can’t fucking afford them and need constant welfare support (that they’ll turn around and rail against politically) so it’s clear that things like education are also involved.
If people understood the scarcity of resources and their own earning potential they’d be fucking TERRIFIED of having children. Since they’re all dumbass hicks, they just fuck and don’t think about it. I’m sure Uncle Sam will show up with a other WIC check to help their poor decisions.
Not to mention most are psuedochristian so they won’t even think about an abortion (not that it’s legal in the south anymore…)
In my country the state taxes the shit out of us while pays for the children of non-working people (there’s a shitload of subsidies going into their pockets), so that doesn’t help at all. What people need is money in their pockets, so having a children doesn’t bankrupt a family.
Do children deserve to starve because their parents aren’t employed?
Because they don’t want to work. There’s enough jobs.
And the children of these people deserve to starve?
Children should starve because their parents don’t want to be abused for $7 an hour, top post mate
Why the American flag. How do you know I’m speaking about US?
Get a grip.
Because the US is one of the best examples of your desire to see the children of poor and unemployed people starve?
“G-g-g-get a grip, I don’t like my shitty views being challenged and I can’t actually defend them”
Mate if you’re going to post dumb shit you probably should have a better response than that.
I’m assuming you’re not actually very dedicated to the idea of starving children, that’s just something you’ve heard and parroted because your own economic status is precarious
So you pretty much called me dumb because I’m poor?
And also, that since you don’t agree with my economic views, Im just “brainwashed”? Seriously? That’s your argument? Seriously, go see the world, every country that actually applied your way of thinking ended up having a lot more children starving than the ones who apply my views.
State shouldn’t be taxing workers because some morons who decided to have children when they’re not supposed to don’t want to go work for 7$ a hour. Get a fucking grip and grow up “mate”
You’re poor because you’re one or two crippling events away from poverty, you’re dumb because you’re choosing to be.
I’ve been to the US and the level of poverty is horrific. Meanwhile China has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty.
The idea of “brainwashing” came from returned American POWs who learned that they were getting a shitty deal from American capitalists who profiteered while the soldiers were firebombing Asia, so no, I don’t think you’re brainwashed. I think you’re a classic middle-class westerner attacking the poor because you see yourself as part of the actual wealthy class even if you’re not. You might have to examine why you’re not on $7 an hour, or if you were born unlucky, $2 a day.
Finally we see the true
emerge - eugenicist takes on how poor people shouldn’t have children, and then how their children (who didn’t actually consent to be born) should be punished for that
Cool viewpoints child starver
this pigbrained subhuman cruelty betrays you as an american citizen, thank god your shithole is in decline lol you should all rot and die there for the good of the world
😠
Can you maybe not see entire groups as the same?
There are Americans that routinely get sent to jail protesting/fighting to change America for the better every day. There are those of us in this very thread that agree with you calling the other commentor a pigbrained subhuman. The strict adherence to an absolutely shit narrative given to them by Reich Wing Media disgusts a large portion of our population.
It’s not entirely our fault that propaganda is so effective at keeping the absolute worst possible people in office and rotting the brains of our neighbors. The blame rests on the oligarchs and ultra wealthy assholes looking to divide and conquer, turning all of us against each other while they laugh all the way to their 3rd private island…
I agree, some of you are alright, it is the elite of america and the very notion of “america” as a nation itself which must ultimately face justice for this situation. I hope you have a good day.
🥰
deleted by creator
I only had to read this one comment to know that you’re a tankie who probably worships every little thing the Kremlin and the CCP say.
America falling apart would be horrifyingly destructive for the rest of the world, for it will allow other corrupt capitalist powers that are, let’s be honest, not as humane, take over the rest of the world.
Then again, the destabilization of the U.S. is well under way and our collapse is inevitable so I guess disputing it is a moot point.
Well technically the continuation of america is more destructive than its inevitable decline, since america has a very awful pattern of killing millions of people for the enrichment of its elite, via means such as invasions, installing genocidal puppet leaders, and corporate extraction. The worst part is that america often destroys countries just as their people are on the brink of greater liberation.
Notable examples include:
It is also probably the most inhumane of the corrupt capitalist powers as revealed in the details of these genocidal ventures either by using its own weapons or by proxy.
As such, the death of america would enable the possibility of a flourishing of socialist nations without the threat of the worlds most powerful military brought to full bear against their people for daring to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.
…Until Russia and China start doing literally the same things if not worse. Russia wouldn’t hesitate to nuke countries that wouldn’t play ball with it, for example.
That opinion has no basis in reality, there’s one country that has used nuclear weapons aggressively and it’s isn’t russia
Americans and projection, name a better duo.
China has a no first nuclear use policy, and the USSR/Russia used to but dropped it down to threats to territorial integrity.
The US has also repeatedly planned for first strikes and escalated tensions: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/10/jfks-first-strike-plan/376432/
Probably not, China is on record, better than the United States in that it does not destabilize burgeoning socialist governments nor engage in one-sided business deals with third world nations to cripple them with debt like how the west does in Africa. Furthermore, they have no historical precedent of engaging in genocidal colonialist ventures in countries halfway around the world from them. If China were top dog they would just be free to expand mutually beneficial international relations at a greater rate then they are doing now without fear of america and its allies nuking them for stepping out of line.
Russia, on the other hand, is truly a failed state that is also in decline. They have a dogshit military that can’t even take a small pissant nation headed by a film star right on its border. It is very unlikely that Russia, in its current form, will be able to reach the same level of economic and military domination that america currently possesses.
Fundamentally, one of the other reasons why China and Russia are unlikely to do the same things is because they are not settler-colonial nations born from genocide. The ideology of Manifest Destiny, invading a militarily inferior nation, slaughtering every single one of the people there, plundering its resources, and settling the land for the sake of “Personal Freedom” (the American Dream), is a unique historical pattern that the very idea of america as a nation is contingent on.
This is what every imperial power says about itself
It’s not wrong though
It’s easy to think the empire is good when you live in the imperial core
It’s really hard to find someone worst? Look at what they did to Libya or are doing to Ukraine
Care to elaborate?
China, Russia, India
Damn it’s too bad we won’t have the humane government that did the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment and invented Eugenics
Capitalism by its nature has an interest in keeping part of the working class unemployed. Look up “reserve army of labor”.
When you work 8 hours a day, have 1 hour lunch break, waste 2 hours commuting, to earn barely enough of what Adam Smith considers ideal (twice the cost of living), it’s hard to sustain a second person, much less a third that requires near constant monitoring for over 7 years.
From a pure economic perspective, a child is a total money sink for at least 18 years. In many places (mostly urban), it’s simply not viable to have one.
So how you propose to raise wages?
Short term, raise the minimum wage. Force walmart to fill the gaps between what they pay and what their workers need to live. Right now, it’s the government is subsidizing that gap.
Gigantic mothefucking emphasis on short term.
Our
piece of shit, bought and paid forpoliticians LOVE to pull the “we’re fighting to raise the minimum wage from X to Y!” but only over such a long timeline that the value of Y equals what X was… God forbid the Job Creators™©® have to ever actually pay more.Agreed, but getting an increase in minimum wage would get the ball rolling on other worker right reforms.
Why the hell is the government subsidising what a huge mega corp pays?
Because rich assholes need to feel speshul, so they waste money on lobbying to ensure those below them never get anywhere
My guess is that, criminalising lobbies would go a long way in the US.
My guess is that, destroying the US would go a long way for world peace.
We kinda need lobbying and it would be very hard to effectively criminalize it. It would just move father into the back rooms. When I say we need it, groups like the EFF, NAACP, FFRF and ACLU all have lobbying arms.
A different idea proposed by Lawrence Lessig would be to remove elected officials from the legislative branch and replace it it something like the Jury Duty system from the court systems. While not perfect, it would be much harder to bribe a constantly rotating group of civilians and most people will vote in their interest even when it’s against their party alignment on a case by case bases.
Lobbyists would become like courtroom lawyers either pushing for or against certain laws in a public settings.
Because the people who own the mega corps own the governments
Socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor.
The rich can pay lobbyists to pay politicians.
Never understood why nobody ever does a BLM-like protest but against lobbyism.
The US government already subsidizes companies like Wal-Mart and Amazon because they force their lowest-paid employees to apply for food stamps even though they work.
Your wording alone demonstrates exactly what SloppyEngineer said about unpaid work not being valued at all.
Have you calculated how much money goes to these children of non-working people?
In my country, some get a minimum wage from just being at home, plus they get a subsidy for each kid they have.
While the working class gets only a small subsidy for each kid (the higher your income the less you get).
But how high is the rate of unemployment in your country? In Germany it is really low, so it probably costs a working person only a few euros per month to support all children of unemployed persons. Not sure if it is worth it to not help these children as they are already severely disadvantaged. Not to mention it can be seen as an investment in these children.
Now much, but people get basically a minimum wage from the state without any effort, so why work at all?
You would be surprised how many people actually cost the state money instead of bringing in money via tax in some countries. The problem isn’t the few unemployed people who could potentially work, the problem is that wages between high earners and low earners are out of proportion.
Incentivizing people to have children is pretty important for a society to continue on. Most societies are based around there being more young people than old people. When you reverse that, you historically don’t have enough people working to keep the country chugging along.