• 9 Posts
  • 690 Comments
Joined 2 years ago
cake
Cake day: June 5th, 2023

help-circle






  • Disagree. One of the main purposes of military training (in most, maybe all, cases) is to strip everyone of their individual autonomy.

    If you’re not OK with what you’re ordered to do, you should not do it

    The problem with this that soldiers are explicitly trained to not even consider their own judgement of their orders. They don’t stop, judge, then pull the trigger. They just pull the trigger. If they disobey an order, they’re court martialed. It’s the military’s justice system that then gets to decide if the order was unlawful. The system is designed to strip soldiers of their power.

    If a 28yo enlists, they share some responsibility simply by knowingly joining an immoral organization. But most new recruits are in high school. They don’t know what the hell is going on.

    All this to say: the leaders who have stripped young boys of their autonomy in order to have them commit horrific acts that will scar them for life in order to protect their own regime, they’re the real villains. I see the individual soldiers as victims.








  • JillyB@beehaw.orgtoLefty Memes@lemmy.dbzer0.comWhere is the lie?
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    9 days ago

    give me an example of a modern uprising where the protesters used weapons to achieve their goals.

    Uprising was maybe the wrong word. But off the top of my head, the Black Panthers and the IRA both used lots of weapons to achieve their goals. The Black Panthers were considered by the FBI to be the biggest threat to the US government in the 60s. They were eventually stopped with counter-intelligence, infiltration, criminalizing, and disarmament rather than military action.

    You bring up good examples of uprisings that didn’t use weapons and times that uprisings were suppressed with military force. I guess I would slightly walk my original claim back. However, I still think that the people having guns is better than not. I can’t find an article, but during the 2020 BLM protests, there were plenty of armed counter protesters. The police were harassing the protesters and leaving the counter protesters alone. Lots of ink was spilled about how this showed which side the police were on. That’s probably true. But there was also some Texas BLM protests where the protesters showed up armed and the police didn’t fuck with them. They didn’t need enough firepower to win a battle. They just needed enough to deter aggression.


  • JillyB@beehaw.orgtoLefty Memes@lemmy.dbzer0.comWhere is the lie?
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    20
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    9 days ago

    This argument never seemed true to me. A typical uprising isn’t suppressed with tanks and fighter jets. It’s suppressed with police. Your uprising doesn’t have bases and fortifications to bomb. An uprising isn’t attempting to control territory. The military and all it’s power isn’t really built to supress an uprising. The US lost in Vietnam and Afghanistan despite having the most powerful military in the world because asymmetric tactics work.


  • This is kind of a silly thing the argue about. No significant amount of soldiers are going to disobey orders on principle. Anybody that does will be publicly crucified.

    We can imagine a spectrum of individual thought to systemic thought. The individual thinker says they aren’t racist because they’ve never treated a POC poorly. The systemic thinker calls them racist for chanting “all lives matter” and driving back to a gated neighborhood. Similarly, the individual thinker wants soldiers to disobey orders as a means of getting things done. The systemic thinker recognizes that a military is a purpose-built system to prevent individual autonomy. Soldiers disobeying orders will never be a lever of pressure against the powers that be.