Hey all! A male supporter has offered to open a community called WomensStuffSupporters that all genders can reply to. That gives men somewhere to show support that isn’t here and also make here easier to moderate.
There’s the option to X post from one to another, which is wouldn’t want to happen automatically as some people wouldn’t like that.
What do you all think of the idea? I’ll leave this post up for a while before a decision is made.
Edit: you can message me if you don’t want to say publicly. I won’t let people know you contacted me, I’d just potentially say someone messaged saying they did/didn’t want it
I prefer it the way it is now. I really wouldn’t be happy with an automatic cross-post feature. Even if the WomensStuffSupporters community started off with good intentions, I could easily see it getting brigaded by sour men who are looking for targets for their misogyny. Just my two cents.
Yeah, I don’t care if there’s a “supporters” group created, but I definitely wouldn’t join it and I’d really rather not have anything cross-posted to it automatically. If it’s opt-in for the cross-posting, that’s fine. That’s called “consent” and I’m down with that.
Yes that would definitely have to be opt in
I mean i like the idea of support but the fact that someone wants a comm they can talk on just because one exists where they can’t is a bit cheeky.
“I’ll make my own women’s stuff! With blackjack and hookers!”
Motive motive motive, how supportive are you if this is your response to the community? “I support wommens but they won’t let me do it in the way i want so i’ll go make somewhere i can”
Also why ask us instead of, idk, just doing it? Or improving existing comms? We tend to frequent those too.
That’s the cynical viewpoint, anyrate. The evil troll in me asks if they can name it “knights in white satin”
He’s being respectful asking us rather than doing it and he’s been clear he won’t do it without our approval. He’s got a solid comment history throughout Lemmy and I’m sure he’s offering for the right reasons. He’s thinking is it would reduce the shit here
really wouldn’t tho. Get them all riled up and increase out attack surface
“I’ll make my own women’s stuff! With blackjack and hookers!”
Not a bad take. I’m not sure that’s the actual motivation but it’s close enough to the truth it’s certainly worth considering.
I really don’t think it’s that with him, I’ve chatted with him and his comment history is positive. His thinking was it would reduce the shit we get here and support us. I’m sure he’s offered with only good intentions
Honestly I’m not a massive fan of the idea. I certainly wouldn’t be visiting it as its just not something I really need.
Great thanks Pip
Why can’t the ones who want to support us just support us from afar and let us have our space? I’m not interested in hearing their views on anything I get it in the other 99.99999% of lemmy and the internet. They can make their comm whatever they want but i’m not interested in it.
I honestly don’t see the point. I doubt it would filter out anything because the men who post here either are unable to read so they wouldn’t know about the other community or they do it just to troll and those would still just post.
The idea to me personally just feels like giving in to those that endlessly complain about one community out of hundreds where they are not welcome. Why would you have to meet them on the middle ground when there is nothing to gain from it. Just so some fragile egos might possibly be a little less hurt?
Honestly I just feel like not interacting with the lemmy anymore at all because the 90% of the site just feels like a cesspool to me.
Only 90%? You’re quite the optimist!
I’m at 99.44%.
Honestly I just feel like not interacting with the lemmy anymore at all because the 90% of the site just feels like a cesspool to me.
I’ve been feeling that way sometimes, too. I know some other women who left Lemmy because it was toxic.
tbh, I’ve increased the time I spend in my subscribed communities, and less time in All - that helps when I’m feeling burnt out or unwelcome on Lemmy (esp. when misogyny is in the forefront, like everyone celebrating Tea users being doxxed as justice served).
Wait, drinking tea is now …
Wut.
Tea is an app that women use to look up men they are considering going on a date with, allowing them to find out if he is a registered sex offender or has a record as a domestic abuser, but also allows women to rate men they have dated as safe or dangerous and leave comments (making it like Rate My Professor or Yelp, but for dating men).
Someone on 4chan found out that the app’s database was completely open to the public, and because the app requires women to upload legal ID to prove they are women before they can use the app, all the app’s users’ IDs were leaked and the users then doxxed.
It’s been in the news:
https://apnews.com/article/tea-app-data-breach-leak-4chan-c95d5bb2cabe9d1b8ec0ca8903503b29
and many Lemmy users have been delighting in the “irony” that the women who use the app are now getting doxxed. I think the common view is that the women are gossiping and violating men’s privacy, so they deserve to be doxxed on 4chan.
Well, they certainly proved why the app needs to exist.
Oh.
This is why I’ll never use any app that requires my real life information.
I just unsubscribed from a bunch of communities because I felt like the discussion was uninformed and/or biased in an unmerited way (even if not woman-specific) - and creating an echo chamber of unhelpful. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one feeling like Lemmy was a bit of a cesspool.
I’d advice to take the time to curate your experience. Block communities and users you don’t care to see, contibute to communities you care about. It has worked great for me.
It’s not impossible for a concept like this to work. GirlGamers on Reddit allows men to comment, but not make posts, and the men there are on the whole very respectful. You would occasionally get a toxic guy, but it was pretty infrequent and the moderators removed those comments quick. There are also a lot of moderators on that subreddit.
However, lemmy has a really peculiar monoculture of men who are left wing, but either get extremely defensive whenever someone brings up feminism or are actively anti-feminist.
Case in point: I feel like that group you mentioned kind of already exists, and it’s witchesvspatriarchy, which gets brigaded by angry men on the regular, to the point where it’s sometimes difficult for that community to operate as it was originally intended. I would be concerned that it would turn into a space where women get drowned out by large brigades of men in the community, and it just becomes an echo chamber where men criticise women and feminist thought; it would be an open fire hose for any moderator on that community.
So I’m just not sure if it would work on Lemmy. At the very least, not until more women start using the platform.
Yep I post in WvP a lot, it’s horrible. I actually have to be careful not to post feminist stuff a few days in a row because it’s a lot of work for the mod. The guy is happy to take that bullet though, his thinking is it could make here safer for us and men can show support there. I totally understand your concerns.
Maybe there needs to be a new Witches vs Patriarchy that cannot get brigaded 😉
Ha I really wished I had read your comment earlier today. You are spot on.
I think x-posting to a mirror community where men can comment on women-only content invites many problems, but most of all it can feel like a violation of the women-only boundary this community has setup.
Imagine a woman who makes a post here, knowing it will automatically be posted to a community with men, does that not immediately raise a question of how women-only this community remains?
Instead I think supportive men and allies should participate in the other women-oriented communities, which are already inclusive, such as [email protected] and [email protected], or if none of those communities have the qualities desired, to create a new community, but not as a mirror of this one.
Broadly speaking, kiwifarms is also a community where men comment on mirred posts from other social media sites, which tells me that it’s potentially a disaster waiting to happen.
I’d live in fear of men crossposting to make fun of or criticize things I write without my knowledge.
yeah, I almost mentioned that the possibility of men x-posting and discussing women-only community posts is still there, but I figured why encourage or automate it - part of the point of a women-only community is to alleviate pressure from men, to have a space where you don’t have to deal with men’s perspectives or feel like men are going to react to your comments, and so on.
So if that’s part of the purpose of this community, x-posting every post to a mirror community where men are commenting on every woman’s post feels like a violation of that purpose.
I don’t think its a good idea. I don’t see the appeal of a male inclusive women’s space. The rules are what make this community what it is. I doubt I would ever visit the new community. I hear men’s unsolicited takes on women far more than I’d like, despite my best efforts. No way I visit a community for more of that.
Women will be at the real womensstuff, men will be at the male inclusive one. It will become a place for men to talk to other men about women. I don’t think that’s the kind of vibe we should encourage. I also don’t see how a space for men to be ignored by women is in any way valuable to them.
I think it would be much better to make a women adjacent community, that is male inclusive, and has its own focus. A male inclusive version of womensstuff is not the way to go.
Great thanks hilde. The hope is it would reduce the shit we get here, but the mod would certainly have to manage a lot of shit! It’s really kind of him to offer
I understand the intention, but I doubt it will have that effect.
Yep the guy is a hero for offering to take the bullet for us!
There was a thread in another community where a lot of users expressed their disappointment that a public community wouldn’t allow men to post/comment in it. To me it doesn’t make sense to fixate on the one community that you can’t participate in when there are plenty of others that are open to everyone. I wouldn’t insist to be allowed into a men’s only community even if I did read the posts from it that showed up on my feed.
I come here because it’s chill and there are topics I can relate to, not because I want to exclude anyone.
That being said, anyone is free to form whatever community they want, including the one you described. As for the crossposting: I treat posting anything online publicly as accepting the risk it will be shared somewhere else.
At first thought it sounds nice, but I agree that having it be tied directly to this community invites a certain element of drama, and possibly undesirable focus. It has the potential to be “WomensStuff posts, now with men”.
I’d prefer the sentiment be channeled in to its own thing. Maybe an “AskWomen” or “Womens Support” that would serve a similar function but with a more defined purpose. Having more woman forward communities on Lemmy is a good thing, but what we’ve got going on here is nice and I don’t think it’s worth risking the dynamic.
c/askwomen was recently closed due to inactivity, but I think reviving it in some way would be really positive for Lemmy and creates an environment where men go to that community with the expectation of getting responses from women and not each other in discussions about women, so I wouldn’t be as worried about echo chambers forming.
So I love this idea.
That’s a great idea! We’re a lot busier on lemmy now it might be worth reopening
I like the idea of two communities. It is handy to have a dedicated community of just women, who sometimes have a different perspective than men on the same topic. Cross posting seems unnecessary to me, but I’m not actively opposed to it.
Great thanks 😊
If someone wants to open a separate community, I’m not one to stand in their way, I just am not sure what the purpose would be. I feel like most things posted to that community would probably be a better fit in an ask women or general feminist community.
My other concern would be if we’re advertising it as some kind of brother community, who is setting the rules and responsible for moderation? Here it’s easy to block people posting in bad faith (since it’s mostly men), will people over there continue to block these people? I don’t mind men chiming in elsewhere, but it would be weird to have it devolve into an “I was blocked there so I’m going to come here to say unsavory things”.
TL;DR: I don’t mind. I have questions that don’t need to be answered but maybe are worth them thinking about, but I like that anyone can start a community on the fediverse and don’t want to restrict that. If it ends up going poorly we can just stop associating with that community.
Much love to our mod team. Appreciate you all asking the community and appreciate the guy asking as well.
Yes it’s a really nice thing for him to offer
I prefer just for woman
Great thanks for letting me know.
I’m not comfortable with the gender exclusion we currently have. It’s one thing to have a space that is just for one group of people (women). But that’s not what we have. The group welcomes nonbinary and trans men; everyone who is not a cis man. So instead of being exclusionary in favor of one group, it’s exclusionary against one group, and that doesn’t sit right with me.
You can point to the abusive and inappropriate comments we get as proof of why this is necessary - but we’re getting those anyway. At this point, the only people being excluded are our allies.
Just my two cents. I know I’m in a minority.
It’s one thing to have a space that is just for one group of people (women). But that’s not what we have. The group welcomes nonbinary and trans men; everyone who is not a cis man.
to be fair it’s a women-only community that allows non-binary folks and trans men to decide whether they feel they belong in such community - this is not the same thing as saying it’s a women + trans men + non-binary (just no cis men) community.
This approach is because non-binary people and trans men often have a past and present experience as being treated as women in the world and connections to womanhood that cis men won’t have, e.g. trans men who start with butch lesbian identities and who are not sure yet about their relationship to being a woman. For a sense of what I’m talking about I suggest reading Stone Butch Blues.
Trans people are a minority to begin with (including here), and not gatekeeping trans identities ourselves and allowing trans people to decide for themselves whether they belong in a women-only community feels like the right approach given the alternatives. Respecting self-identity is part of what it means to be trans-inclusive.
Excellent point, thank you for fleshing that out.
I hear you. We’re trans men and non binary inclusive partly cos people in those groups are presenting as female in day to day life, or have in the past. And sadly you’re not seeing all the abusive comments, some of them are zapped in minutes and we also get a lot of false post reports, abusive messages etc.
Understandable, I appreciate you.
And I appreciate you
Thank you (and dandelion, cheesetoastie and foxglove!) for keeping this space for us y’all are really appreciated. 😍
You’re welcome 😊
just for transparency, foxglove is a dandelion alt 😅
i did not know that :)
Sure, they can. However, crossposting should be a no no unless explicitly asked or permitted per post.
Don’t necessarily advertise it as a sibling community either before we see how it goes.
