• ZapBeebz_@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    EGS isn’t any good on PC. What makes them think a workable console version is coming any time soon?

    • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Yeah, they still haven’t fixed the slow ass scrolling performance in the client and have barely introduced any platform features to their store. It’s so bad.

  • Lexi Sneptaur@pawb.social
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    7 months ago

    Yeah, to be honest, if Apple’s model is not legal, then neither is Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo…

    It’s a good argument.

    • aksdb@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      It’s not the same model though, is it? I can buy XBox, PS an Nintendo games in a shit ton of physical or digital stores. So there are different channels. There is no equivalent on iOS. If you don’t want to publish in the app store, no one will be able to install your app (developers with own certs and enterprise customers with mdm excluded).

      • themusicman@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        A chunk of those sales go to the platform, regardless of where they’re bought. And you can’t just sell an Xbox/playstation game without permission and royalties

      • Lexi Sneptaur@pawb.social
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        7 months ago

        This is true, but they’re also now selling digital-only consoles. For some customers, the digital store is their only choice.

            • aksdb@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              But not directly the apps. I can, however, for example buy codes for individual xbox games from different vendors.

              • Lexi Sneptaur@pawb.social
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                7 months ago

                Right, but I feel that this method of distribution is very similar to gift cards in that the retailer has no control over pricing, promotions, etc. additionally, these codes cannot be re-used.

    • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      if Apple’s model is not legal, then neither is Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo…

      Except it’s not about the model itself, it’s about market power. Neither game console maker has a monopoly, not even Nintendo.

      • fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Are there any other virtual stores on the console? There’s obviously physical store fronts, but I’m pretty sure there’s only the one digitally on console.

        • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Are there any other virtual stores on the console?

          No but since none of the console vendors have a monopoly, antitrust laws don’t apply. They can do practically any shit as long as none have a dominant market position.

            • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Apple doesn’t have a monopoly though, there’s still Android.

              Based on revenue, it has, though. iPhones are being bought by people who spend more money in app stores than the average Android user.

          • IamAnonymous@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            So Nintendo can force everyone to buy a Switch to play Mario games? From what I see, consoles are locked in as well and we are forced to have PS/Xbox/Switch for their exclusive games. And this is legal because they aren’t as big as Apple? Why can’t I buy one console to play any game I want just like I can install any OS on Android?

            • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              And this is legal because they aren’t as big as Apple?

              Apple can do whatever they want on iPads, Mac, and Vision Pro. At least WRT Gatekeeper status in the EU, only iPhone is covered.

              • IamAnonymous@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Did not know that. So it’s just the sales numbers then because iPad is the same as an iPhone in terms of functionality and restrictions. Mac is more open compared to their mobile devices.

                • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  So it’s just the sales numbers then because iPad is the same as an iPhone in terms of functionality and restrictions.

                  Sales numbers and more specifically market power of the Apple App Store on iPhones. In absolute numbers there are more Android devices out there but that includes super low-end devices where the owners don’t spend as much money on apps.

                  Apparently tablets aren’t being seen as big of a factor in the overall market, at least according to the EU. The special exceptionfs announced recently by Apple for the EU also for the most part are only about iPhone.

                  “The changes do not apply outside of the EU, nor do they apply to iPadOS in any country.” –https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/06/alternative-ios-app-stores-eu-grace-period/

      • golli@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        I agree that it is about market power, but one could make the argument that Xbox/PlayStation have a duopoly similar to iOS/Android.

        Although I think PlayStation dominated with roughly a 70/30 split worldwide (higher in Europe). Nintendo is somewhat in its own category imo, since they mostly do their own games and don’t directly compete in that sense.

        But I guess in a way consoles also compete with PCs.

    • atocci@kbin.social
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      7 months ago

      Can Win32 programs run on the xbox? I know there’s Edge, but iirc, that’s packaged in some unique way.

      • yeehaw@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        I thought all xboxes were x86 hardware running some variant of windows under the hood?

        Edit:

        “The Xbox system software is the operating system developed exclusively for Microsoft’s Xbox home video game consoles.[1] Across the four generations of Xbox consoles, the software has been based on a version of Microsoft Windows”

        "Though initial iterations of the software for the original Xbox and Xbox 360 were based on heavily modified versions of Windows, the newer consoles feature operating systems that are highly compatible with Microsoft’s desktop operating systems, allowing for shared applications and ease-of-development between personal computers and the Xbox line. "

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_system_software

        • atocci@kbin.social
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          7 months ago

          I’m pretty sure the shared applications it’s referring to there are UWP apps, which use a different set of APIs to traditional Win32 apps that are only available on full Windows versions. I looked into how Edge works a bit more, and it sounds like Microsoft made a special translation layer to take Edge’s Win32 API calls and turn them into UWP ones. I guess games would be possible to run like this too?

    • narrowscoped@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I think it’s gonna get there very soon. Steam on Xbox, and also Xbox on steam deck.

      The only issue with the latter is Valve is using proton translation to bypass windows and make their own thing, it’s a tremendously grey area that Microsoft has said NOTHING about, only because Steam is legit and game sale money go to publishers.

      Imagine if Yuzu was legit and game sales still went to nintendo or 3rd parties, the tech behind proton and yuzu nce aren’t dissimilar!

        • Mini_Moonpie@sh.itjust.works
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          7 months ago

          I’m guessing that they don’t mean a legally grey area. I think they probably mean it’s a grey area for Microsoft because Proton helps people get around needing Windows to play games made for Windows and Microsoft has an interest in keeping people on their OS.

  • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    7 months ago

    Steam suspicously absent from this conversation, but I’m willing to be patient and see.

    It’s a positive attitude for Spencer to take, but would have to see it in practice to be able to make judgment on if he really stands behind those words or if he is simply making a strategic business decision whose real motives are simply masked by these words.

    The latter is par for the course for corporations, so we don’t have a lot to lean on in favor of him truly holding these values, sadly. One can hope, however, that miracles can and do happen.

    • ampersandrew@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I think Valve in particular has more incentive to make a console-esque PC that runs Steam than they do to make a storefront on someone else’s console.

      • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        That’s not where Valve makes their money from though. Their money primarily comes from store purchases, so anything to expand Steam’s reach is better for them. Plus, keeping Steam as relevant and ubiquitous as possible will in turn promote sales of the Steam Deck. The Xbox and Steam Deck cater to fundamentally different use cases anyways.

  • ampersandrew@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    It’s finally happening? Console manufacturers realizing that the old model, that’s worse for the consumer, doesn’t make sense anymore?

    • echo64@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      No, there won’t be another xbox. Phil Spencer is angling to get gamepass on nintendo and sony. But he’s going to have to force it through the courts and government legislation, much like epic is doing with mobile stores now.

      It’s a play for gamepass, not the consumer

      • ampersandrew@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        It’s a play for the consumer’s money, and when the consumer has better options than the traditional console model, the console model breaks down. They’ve got at least one more Xbox in them, whether or not that next Xbox is just a PC with different branding.

        • echo64@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          The “better option” is subscription services where you own nothing and the bottom drops out of the industry, just like music and film. You can cheer for that if you want, but it is not in the interests of the consumer.

          • ampersandrew@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            I wasn’t cheering for subscription services. I was cheering that this exclusivity model of walled gardens no longer makes economic sense, while open platforms are on the rise. Microsoft is hoping that their pivot will result in more subscribers to their subscription service, but all signs are pointing to them having a rough time of growing beyond where they stand now, for all sorts of reasons.

  • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Fun fact: Microsoft can already do that: Just ship a Windows container VM on Xbox.

    Edit: Apparently “container” is the wrong term.

      • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Even Microsoft knows windows containers are fucking shit

        The Xbox System Software contains a heavily modified Hyper-V hypervisor (known as NanoVisor) as its host OS and two partitions. One of the partitions, the “Exclusive” partition is a custom virtual machine (VM) for games; the other partition, the “Shared” partition is a custom VM for running multiple apps including the OS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_system_software#System

        Xbox already runs two VMs. Just throw in a third with real Windows.

          • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            A VM and a container are two completely different pieces of technology…

            I’m sorry I mixed up the terminology. I was sure the point of “Microsoft can ship Windows with Xbox” came across no matter what.