Walt Disney Co on Friday said that remarks by activist investor Nelson Peltz criticizing the company for making movies dominated by female and Black actors is evidence that he shouldn’t be on Disney’s board.
Peltz, whose fight to join Disney as a director has become one of the year’s most bitter and closely watched board battles, in an interview with the Financial Times said Disney’s films have become too focused on delivering a message, and not enough on quality storytelling. He specifically took issue with “The Marvels” and “Black Panther.”
“Why do I have to have a Marvel that’s all women? Not that I have anything against women, but why do I have to do that?" Peltz said in the interview, published on Friday. "Why can’t I have Marvels that are both? Why do I need an all-Black cast?”
Asked about Peltz’s remarks, a Disney spokesperson responded: “This is exactly why Nelson Peltz shouldn’t be anywhere near a creatively driven company.”
I don’t know much about Peltz but I kind of agree that you don’t NEED to have all black or all women cast. The art should dictate it. But on the flip side, having an all black or all women cast isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Representation in media may not matter to some, but it can make a big impact on others.
Furthermore, most of Africa is black. What were you expecting out of Black Panther???
Sure, it isn’t necessary, but would he say the same thing about an all white or all male cast? That’s the default, so having something to show the default isn’t the only option is good too. As a cis straight white man, I don’t give a fuck if there isn’t a straight white man in a movie. Why should I? I see myself everywhere being validated. Let’s give other people extra space because they’ve been denied it for so long.
It’s mostly not necessary, just like it’s not necessary to have an all-white cast. In the last few years I came to realize that colorblind casting doesn’t diminish great art, just like it won’t help bad art to become better. I’m not saying casting should always be colorblind, but in sci-fi and fantasy movies I don’t see skin color or gender matter at all.
It’s been a minute since I saw Black Panther. But didn’t they shoehorn Martin Freeman’s character to add some white diversity as a token white guy?
Everett Ross is associated with Black Panther in the comics as well… And is basically a token there. But his existence predates the Disney acquisition.
That wasn’t about diversity, it was about having an outsider around so they could explain things to him (and therefore the audience)
It’s like making a movie about Themyscira, (DC I know) and having one of the main characters be a man.
I get your point but I mean Wakanda is supposed to be the most technologically advanced society. Why shouldn’t diversity sort of be a given in that context? Because only fellow Africans can be trusted to keep the place a secret?
Well, yeah. Do you not know the history of Black Panther? You just talking out your ass? The whole idea was isolationism in the face of colonialism.
Seems kinda hostile. Africans can be born without pigmentation for one thing. And just because there are colonial powers doesn’t mean a society has to be so bigoted (which they clearly aren’t in universe) to see everyone who doesn’t look like themselves as part of “the others”. They allowed the Avengers in anyways. But my point was meant more like, technology thrives when cultures and people come together.
That’s cool. You can go make that thing because that has absolutely nothing to do with Wakanda.
It sounds like you’re implying Africans have an inability to develop a technologically advanced society on their own.
Well how far do you want me to go in refuting that? Would attributing the US space program to the leftover Nazi braintrust be too far? I’m saying what I have said. That no people on their own can truly thrive. We excel when we work together (the moral implications of working with ex white supremacists exist but don’t negate that fact).
But yea sure we’re talking about a work of fiction. I just thought that people here feel that vibe of Disney pushing diversity for the sake of diversity. I feel like that does raise certain valid points about artistic integrity. And if that makes me sound to you like the guy who can’t stand the thought of a female Bond then that’s you reading stuff into it that I haven’t said.
To me turning Arielle black is like making Maleficent the protagonist. If something works (not for me personally but for audiences in general) then it will be rewarded accordingly. Whether i.e. The Marvels worked is up for everyone to decide.
I’m just letting you know your previous comment had racist undertones.
Your comment about turning Ariel black also has racist undertones. Mermaids aren’t real, maybe the black actress was better suited for the role in ways we don’t know about?
Well I think you were now given the chance to judge the book by something other than its cover. If you stick with your original assessment that’s entirely your prerogative. I was giving Arielle as an example of something that worked.
Yes the implication that they sequestered themselves away and somehow progressed alongside the rest of humanity, sorry not only progressing but outpacing the rest of humanity is ridiculous.
It has nothing to do with them being African, the concept is made ridiculous by simply possessing a working knowledge of what human beings are.
They completely cut off their society from the rest of the world, it’s not like any African gets a pass in, they don’t allow anyone that isn’t Wakandan. It was like, a pretty significant plot point.
Yea well like I said in the other comment, a society that advanced free from cooperation with other cultures or people seems unlikely. The point of their isolation isn’t lost on me. Still I wouldn’t know why zero tolerance towards that policy would be necessary or sustainable while thriving for technological innovation.
You think that part is ‘unlikely’ in a movie about people with super powers?
You got me there ngl. I’m not saying Black Panther has plot holes, I’m not even saying that the cast should’ve been more diverse because Disney or whatever. I was just trying to level with @[email protected] saying the art should dictate the content instead of executives bending it to their will. In the case of Black Panther it was probably the art or the source material anyways so no real issue there.
a society that advanced free from cooperation with other cultures or people seems unlikely
True. The writers probably agree. Hence Wakanda literally having been built on top of a literal mountain of magic space science unobtainium that makes science go brrr practically by just being there.
Oh, and with magic drugs that allow Wakandan leaders to not only single handedly beat up any would be invaders, but also share the wisdom and acquired knowledge of all their ancestors.
Seems quite less unlikely and unsustainable when you take into account those two little details. 🤷♂️
Not trying to point out lack of realism in a work of fiction anyways. I was just trying to suggest that diversity hires could’ve been the name of the Disney game on those movies just as they are on many others. When it comes to representation there’s definitely no need to diversify a majority black cast. At least not for the sake of more caucasian faces. But I really do feel the words “the art should dictate it”. Black Panther’s source material was probably honored quite faithfully.
AGREED! Why should I use BLACK ACTORS just because the movie takes place in a country with MAJORITY Black People? And WHY on God’s Green Earth should I cast WOMEN to play FEMALE Superheroes?
Be careful with the “majority” part of it because that opens the doors for lots of racists to whine about how a lot of traditionally white characters are replaced by black characters. What you’re looking for is that the point is they are black. Their blackness is essential to the characters.
For something like, say, the little mermaid, her being white is not even remotely essential to her character. Which is why no one should be even remotely offended by the fact that it has been played by a black actress.
Of course you can also swap in female for black and the point is the same.
I don’t care if it’s all women or all black, I just don’t want another Marvel movie. Ever.
Why? It’s not like you are forced to watch them
Nobody said we were forced to. I don’t want another one either. They ran superheros into the ground years ago. If they make another, I won’t watch it. They’re exhausting now.
And the movies I like still seem to manage to get financed (Dune, Poor Things…) so I don’t need to care about what Marvel does.
There was a time when it felt like only superhero movies would make it to the cinemas, but it seems they over-did it and people got somewhat tired.
Why? It’s not like you are forced to watch them
Aren’t I though?
Are you though? I stopped watching before infinity war and haven’t watched anything marvel since, outside of the one series I actually had interest in.
And yet I’m still inundated by advertising for each movie, making me keenly aware of the thing I don’t want constantly rammed down my throat. I’ve come to expect it at fast food restaurants, but I can’t even shop for groceries without Marvel trying to push something at me. I’m not actively watching Marvel movies, but they are still part of my life whether I want them there or not.
I mean why wouldn’t the cast of the Black Panther be mainly black? That’s just weird that you wouldn’t have it that way. Also Captain Marvel and Ms Marvel are both female characters I don’t know what this guy is after here. Why would he pick those examples?
They should do what the comics did when they were told there needed to be more white people in Black Panther and just have him start beating up the KKK.
From the Lee power duo of Stan and Spike, coming this summer: BlacKKK Panther
Because whenever a movie or TV show or video game has anything except a cis hetero white man as the main character, people like this start screeching. They aren’t satisfied with having people that look like themselves represented in the vast majority of main characters. They view any time a character not matching the above description shows up in some kind of media as discrimination against themselves. Any slight reduction in privilage they mistake for real discrimination. They mask this by claiming they’re just concerned with the integrity of the art or some nonsense, especially the gamer gate type crowd.
Anytime a gay character or a female character or someone pops up they start yelling, “why does this character have to be gay? It must be lazy pandering at the expense of a good story.” To which I would pose the same question back to them. Any piece of media featuring a straight cis white man, why does the character have to be a straight white man? Must be lazy pandering at the expense of story.
Or maybe, just maybe, it’s more interesting to have a wide variety of characters and stories in media. Sometimes people are just gay, or are just straight, or just female, or just male. It might have a big impact in a story and it might not. It shouldn’t be “unless this is a story specifically about the gay/female/black experience the character must be straight/male/white by default.” If that is going to be part of that piece of media, great, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be depending on the story being told. You’ll never see this crowd upset with a straight white male character for these reasons though, very transparent.
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Just ask where all their inclusive screeching was back when it was an all white male cast in everything. If they shut up back then they need to shut it now.
All this guy is basically saying is “why make a movie that isn’t exactly the way I think?”
Embedded in his mindset is the idea that black people don’t deserve their own audience.
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He’s also upset that the black panther wore a black suit.
Ghostbusters gender swapped the characters? AFAIK, is just a new team of ghostbusters that happens to be all women.
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Was that Ghostbusters really decent? I have the avoided all the new Ghostbusters, not because of the internet outrage crap, but because Ghostbusters 2 was an absolute steaming pile of dog shit. I figured the new reboots / whatever were going to be even worse than that atrocity.
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It was a good movie. Not great, but good enough to enjoy it without a single eye-roll…
Fun story when they made that psycho Transformers movie with the laminated age of consent law and the product placement transformer made out of Oreo vending machines, Peltz’s daughter is the teenager it’s supposed to be legal to molest and Peltz was on the Oreo company board.
Wait, what? What psycho transformers movie is this?!
Edit: nevermind. I looked up the scene. Whatever the fuck was that?!
Link?
What the fuck?
Probably the first movie where “starring Mark Wahlberg” isn’t its biggest problem.
People like this shouldn’t ever be considered ‘creative’. Dunno how we got here but glad they are choosing to reverse that decision.
Neither of those casts were all anything, apart from human.
Found the alien activist
Why should I care about this? Do any of these people care about producing better entertainment that is not pandering or exploitative?
Haha no. One side cares about starting Brave, Important Conversations while the other side cares about money.
Where the sex or amount of melanin someone has isn’t a defining characteristic of the story, it just shouldn’t matter if you swap genders or whatever assuming similar levels of acting ability. Disney I generally see as a corporate whore, but good on them for sticking to this. Fuck you peltz.
While I agree with what you’re saying, Disney didn’t change the gender or racial identities of the characters he’s complaining about.
Ms. Marvel, Monica Rambeau, and Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel are all very well cast for their roles. They’re practically plucked out of the pages of the comics, and match on race and gender identity from the source.
And Black Panther is about a super hero protector of a nation of black people. The answer to this racist’s question is literally in the name of the movie.
While I agree with what you’re saying, Disney didn’t change the gender or racial identities of the characters he’s complaining about.
Fun trivia: Nick Fury is a white guy in the comics, but the MCU version with Jackson is so iconic I don’t think anyone but the most die hard racist + comic nerd intersection people still complain about it.
Fun trivia: The Ultimate comic universe actually introduced a black Nick Fury nearly 10 years before Jackson played him on the big screen.
Even more fun fact, the Ultimate version was literally modeled after Sam Jackson so it came full circle.
I had forgotten that he was a white guy so I went to look up the character… and was surprised to find out that they actually turned Nick Fury into Samuel L. Jackson in the comics 7 years BEFORE casting him to play the character.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury_(Marvel_Cinematic_Universe)
Changing the design of a beloved character was always met with criticism and skepticism. When James Bond was made blonde by casting Daniel Craig there was as much of an uproar amongst the fan base as when Ariel was made black.
If a movie is good, people will accept the design changes, if the movie is bad people will blame the design changes. And some people just never get over the design changes and will refuse to give it a chance.
The discussion is just a bit more heated because of the current social and political climate. But that’s mostly by people who don’t even care about the movie and just use the topic to stir the pot.
Nelson Peltz was born in 1942. Maybe in 10 more years we won’t have to put up with nearly as much of this bullshit since most of these out of touch racist fucks will hopefully be dead by then
Oh, there’s young racist fucks too.
I was out doing some outdoor work last week, and I’ve basically the skintone of a vampire so I cover up, so I had a big unstylish fishing hat with a neck protector on. And some kids from the local junior high mocked me in terrible Spanish as they walked home. (And by terrible, I mean I could identify how bad it was and I haven’t had Spanish classes in 20+ years and never was fluent in it and I could still tell it was bad.)
I’m not even Hispanic, but it made me mad enough with it happening just one time that it hurts inside to know similar stuff happens on a daily basis to other people. And some of it totally comes from young racist fucks.
If you’re angry about the critical and financial success that is Black Panther, tells me you’re not an investor, just a racist idiot.
Why would you have a movie set in Africa have a nearly all black cast? He’s seriously asking that? Apparently you don’t need basic intelligence to be a billionaire. How often does he ask why shows like Billions or Succession have to be about white families?
The Disney philosophy, at this point, is that people who have been unrepresented for years will take issue towards efforts that are not strictly made with inclusivity in mind and those who have been represented will accept it as progress, then the small few who take issue with “wokeness” will watch it because “it’s Disney”
Their gamble is paying off because lets face it, 90% of the world with a TV screen has grown up with Disney.
So while you might disagree with Disney’s take on X, Y or Z, that fucking mouse is so engrained on us that we will accept whatever bullshit they put forward
And let’s be honest, it’s not like they’re pushing anything immoral, obscene, etc.
Yeah well, if you check the recent audience scores and opening weekend profits for their films, other people seem to agree with him.
The two Black Panther movies combined have grossed over 2 billion dollars. I wouldn’t say that agrees with him. It’s also odd to assume that movies which didn’t do as well, like The Marvels, were because of a female dominated cast and not because they were just bad movies.
if you like any of these movies you’re a baby
