So I just discovered that I have been working next to the waste of oxygen that raped my best friend several years ago. I work in a manufacturing environment and I know that you can’t fire someone just for being a sex offender unless it directly interferes with work duties (in the US). But despite it being a primarily male workforce he does work with several women who have no idea what he is. He literally followed a woman home, broke into her house, and raped her. Him working here puts every female employee at risk. How is that not an unsafe working environment? How is it at even legal to employ him anywhere where he will have contact with women?
Or we can accept the past actually does matter, protect our communities and offenders can be the ones to accept the short end of the stick.
You know, like a sane society
If you don’t allow people to have second chances, then recidivism rates skyrocket. Being tough on crime creates more crime (and more prisoners).
Look at the Scandinavian prison model. Reform is what ought to be the focus.
But in the US, recidivism is kind of the goal. After all, we need to keep the for profit prisons full.
For profit prisons are creepy and ought to be illegal, but they’re also a small percentage of US prisons. They’re not to blame for the high prison population. They’re another symptom.
If you dress up enabling rapists, who do not belong in the community, through flowery rhetoric, you deny that second chance to everyone else.
Society doesn’t owe rapists anything. It owes everyone else their safety. If the rapist doesn’t like it, they should not have raped anyone. If you don’t like the fact that your rapist friend is ostracized from the community, you should stop being friends with rapists.
This is why we need to throw rapists in jail for life, and quite frankly, to start jailing their enablers, so communities can rebuild and the trauma from those acts can heal.
When did the person you responded to say they were friend with rapists. When you resort to ad hominem attacks on peoples character, you’re signalling to everyone you have already lost the argument and have nothing of value left to say, just take the L.
Well, when did anyone say they were ostracizing a rapist? You want to talk about logical fallacies, you best look at yourself and your compatriots here.
Firing them from a job like that, where they have to work closely with women and have the opportunity to reoffend, isn’t ostracization the way you’re flagrantly exaggerating it to be. It’s called common sense.
The other employees have every right to fear being raped because there is a known sexual predator in the workplace. It’s a specific and credible fear that not only is grossly immoral if the company doesn’t act, it also will put them in a position of extreme liability. That scumfuck should never have gotten past the background check in the first place.
And you don’t care about that because all you care about is yourself. Because like the other apologists here, you’re thinking from a perspective of “But what if I get caught?” and that means you believe you or someone you know will rape someone someday – and you’ll keep them in your life anyway, because you don’t care about justice or morality, you only care about shielding your friends from consequences.
Seriously, that was my only comment and now I’m also a rapist according to you. This is something else, I can’t say I’ve ever encountered someone this toxic on Lemmy since I’ve been here. You extrapolated all sorts of things I never said from 2 sentences.
Not that you are remotely deserving of a respectful response at this point, but I’ll still give you my thoughts:
I’ve been sexually assaulted and have had people close to me be sexually assaulted and raped. The insinuation that I am a rapist would be personally harmful to me and retraumatizing if I wasn’t aware that you are doing this because you are unable to articulate your opinions on the matter effectively, so you resort to insults. I totally understand the visceral need and desire for vengeance and justice when you or someone close to you is the victim of vile acts. There is someone I grew up acquainted with that if I saw them again in person I would have an intense desire to cause physical pain because of what they did to people close to me. I totally understand the desire for vengeance, and I suspect everyone else on this thread does too.
With that said, when societies make rules you have to decide what the goal is. Is the goal vengeance and punishment, is the goal a better future for society in general, or is it a little of both. We have the sum total of human experience to look back on, we can see what societies systems of punishment result in better outcomes for society at large. We know what systems of punishment result in recidivism more often, what systems result in rehabilitation more often, and we know what systems perpetuate a cycle of violence that never ends. We don’t rehabilitate criminals and sex offenders for their sake, we rehabilitate them for societies sake. Because we can conclusively show that if systems of punishment make it their goal to rehabilitate instead of get vengeance, it usually breaks the cycle of violence whether it be physical or sexual. You’re basically saying you would prefer vengeance, even if it is at the expense of sexual and physical violence being perpetuated through society generation after generation.
I strongly suggest you read this article: https://www.firststepalliance.org/post/norway-prison-system-lessons#:~:text=Prisoners in Norway lose their,crime rates in the world.
Norway has the lowest recidivism rate in the world exactly because the treat their criminals like human beings. Guess who wins, all of the non-criminals that enjoy one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
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No, I said you’re a rape apologist. And you are. And a particularly gross one too, being that you’re sitting here claiming you’ve been sexually assaulted like that’s supposed to make actual rape apologia coming from you somehow valid or palatable. That claim actually makes your stance worse. If you’re telling the truth, you’re hurting other rape victims by arguing that they need to suffer the presence of a rapist, and live with their safety constantly being in jeopardy, simply because you allowed yourself to become brainwashed by a rape culture so you could gain access to comfort. And like all rape victims who have been brainwashed – if you’re not just some lying neckbeard, then you’re not the first brainwashed sap I’ve run into in my life and you sadly wouldn’t be the last – you of course latch onto every dumb ass talking point the rape culture tells you to because you can’t handle the reality of what you have done to yourself. You sold your soul for a place in society, and you drag down other victims, denying them their own safety, just so you don’t have to face what you’ve done.
Do you know the story of the two wolves named Comfort and Dignity? If not, go look it up. Or I’ll tell it. You need to learn it.
But it’s obvious you’re just here with a shitty political agenda regardless, because you came in here with a wall of text talking about vengeance when no one even fucking brought it up. No one brought up vengeance anywhere except for you and your ilk. We over here on Team Justice are talking about convincing HR to fire his dumb ass which is not only well within their rights to do, it is their moral responsibility as a member of the community. You are arguing specifically that they do not, to appease you, at the cost of dignity, safety, and the human rights of everyone else in that workplace. No one brought up Norway or Nordic countries except you and your ilk, because it’s a common talking point in the sales pitch you inundate Lemmy and Reddit threads with to push an anti-victim, anti-justice political agenda.
So you obviously don’t care about rape victims. So don’t sit here and claim to be a rape victim and act like that’s gonna inspire sympathy. It won’t work on me, honey.
I was sexually assaulted too and I never sold out like you did. I didn’t give up on justice. You bear the burden of that. OP’s friend should never have to.
You’re disgusting and vile.
What kind of society are we going to have if we do that though? Societies with forever punishments are worse places to live specifically because it ends up being used as a weapon. It gets easier and easier to get that forever punishment because this exact argument gets deployed for lower and lower offenses. Your three options are slavery, banishment, or death. And it’s usually for an ulterior motive like votes or money. Humans have tried all three in the past and they’ve all led to more heartbreak and violence than they’ve stopped.
A sane society wants and works towards peace. You get peace with rehabilitation and treatment.
A better one.
See, in the real world where adults pay bills, your actions have consequences. Those actions tend to be for everyone else and are extremely damaging if you rape them, so what sane societies do is prioritize the interests of the victims and the community at large over the rapist. They imprison or preferably execute the rapist, to guarantee they cannot hurt members of the community anymore without forcing the community to bear the burden of the rapist’s presence, for their mere presence is now a problem.
Communities do not owe anything to rapists and are under no responsibility to integrate people like that into it. The act of doing that endangers a community because now they have to live alongside a rapist.
Communities have a large moral obligation to establish a Moral Event Horizon and accept that individuals who do horrific things like rape don’t belong in it anymore regardless of circumstance. The community has to be willing to discriminate who can participate or not based on actions. That’s what a community does to maintain itself.
A community unwilling to do this is an unprincipled one that usually just thinks rape is morally acceptable or at least necessary to reproduce. A community unwilling to permanently remove a rapist for any reason is just, quite frankly, an evil one.
Rapists don’t have a permanent right to participate in the community. The idea that they do has destroyed our society. You have to earn the privilege to participate through following the laws and good action, and if you refuse, you can no longer participate in the community.
Communities have an obligation to establish rules abd enforce then through threat of losing the ability to participate.
It’s not hard when you don’t enable rapists.
Let’s say we agree on your governance model. There are non-trivial cases of men falsely been accused of rape by women. Some have even been convicted and their innocence proved many years later. How does your governance model that proposes execution of the convicted account for this?
It doesn’t.
They have a simplistic worldview. That makes them feel good or safe that allows no room for the messiness or complexity of the real world.
The prevalence of simple minded ideas like theirs is why authoritarian minded demagogues like Putin, Trump, Duterte, are as popular as they are.
It literally doesn’t matter because this isn’t a discussion of the death penalty. This is an individual asking about a serious situation at work you deliberately ran off the rails to push a political agenda. Take your anti-justice garbage and shut it.
Oh, and by the way, OP’s friend being expected to work alongside their rapist functionally is worth than death.
It does matter because you brought it up, this is what you said, word for word. Do you hope your proposed legal framework to be implemented at any point in time and therefore willing to give it some serious thought or are you just venting?
It doesn’t matter because the only reason I even replied was because I didn’t realize you were purposefully derailing the thread to push an agenda, and using OP and his serious, personal situation to do it.
You and your goons have said, all over the thread, the most vile, disgusting, anti-woman shit, because the truth is you condone rape and don’t want to see other males suffer for it. It didn’t occur to you that you could suffer such a thing and have no recourse. You clearly dismiss the extreme moral crime of expecting a victim’s friend and potential victims to suffer under circumstances like that – of course, everyone else in that place can just go find another job, right? Rapists have the right to work wherever they want but not good, normal people. The world revolves around you and your ilk, after all.
You’re quite simply a rape apologist. There’s no way around it. And so are the mods of this sub apparently.
You parrot the same thing over and over again without answering any of questions directed to you. I was asking about innocent people, not rapists. You want to execute rapists, sure fine. What about the wrongly convicted? You haven’t even spared sentence for them amongst all your ramblings. If you are serious about seeing what you’re preaching implemented, the wrongly convicted has to be addressed. If you are not going to accept that your ramblings are just that. Ramblings.
You parrot the same meaningless talking points every single thread that is both popular and a clear cut case to hold someone accountable for something.
You ramble about insane bullshit that has nothing to do with OP because you are here on some rape apologia anti-justice agenda.
You are angry at me trying to get something out of me when you don’t even have to.
Why? Because the mods are just as sexist and in support of rape apologia as you are. They’ve been deleting every comment at the top of the thread that uses the terms “rape apologia” or “rape apologist” while leaving up stuff that should also be banned under civility rules but supports their side. You could just go talk to a mod and have me banned, like you always do whenever I tell you you’re doing something wrong. So why be upset I won’t play your horrific game?
Go cry to them about how rapists don’t deserve to suffer consequences for their actions. Go cry to them how everyone else has to bear the burden and the threat of their presence because you think a rapist’s right to rape is more important than the human rights of other people. Go cry to them: they’ll agree with you. They’ve already shown they have.
Go. Go repeat your talking points to them. Go now. On your bike.
Sounds more like a backwards medieval society than a ‘sane society’.
Most modern and sane societies have a concept of rehabilitation and have found that we are all better off when a justice system is centered on rehabilitation and addressing the roots of crime at a deeper level, beyond just punishment, punishment is not very effective on its own.
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How can you say all that when you don’t even know what the victim was wearing?
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I am not serious, lol. Can I ask how you think we as a society should handle these individuals? I know you said that they “should get the short end of the stick”. Does that mean execution? Life-imprisonment?
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