Are we sure that the EU is actually independend? When have the US lost their influence?
However, after US President John F. Kennedy expressed his displeasure about this to the West German ambassador to the United States, the Bundestag ratified the treaty with a preamble which called on France and West Germany to pursue tight cooperation with the United States; the eventual admission of the United Kingdom to the EEC; the achievement of a free trade accord in the framework of the GATT; and for the West’s military integration in NATO under US leadership
This effectively emptied the Treaty of any sense (in Gaullist understanding) and put end to General de Gaulle’s hopes of building the EEC into a counterweight to the US and the USSR.
Quoting ancient history that shows France was already fairly independent back then and that Germany wasn’t shortly after WW2 isn’t a very good argument.
Spain is calling for building a common defense capability because that is the one area where the EU isn’t as independent as it should be in light of how undependable the USA has become. This has already started to change.
Again, what de Gaulle thought in the 1960 of the initial stages does not tell you what the EU is today at all.
The reason the EU did not enter into a trade war at least so far is that economists would tell you it’s still less harmful to just negotiate them to be as low as can be and let them be on one side, they hurt the USA more than the EU. Also note that the EU is in the process of negotiating Mercosur and resolving their issues with Chinese EVs so part of their response is to try to open up more free trade with other countries. Trump trying to press for European territory with them and not sticking to anything agreed upon may change the calculus in the future though.
The thing is that we don’t know what the EU is today. That’s why I ask if we know the moment that the EU broke free. If we don’t know it, how can we be sure that it is?
E.g. if you look at the military, EU command infrastructure is shared with NATO. In every conflict, NATO has right of first refusal. So NATO takes over whenever NATO wants. Who has high command in NATO?
For Hungary we openly discuss the Russian influence and how Russia abuses the requirement for unanimousity. Does the US have a similar influence on any other EU country?
This effectively emptied the Treaty of any sense (in Gaullist understanding) and put end to General de Gaulle’s hopes of building the EEC into a counterweight to the US and the USSR.
General de Gaulle’s hopes of building the EEC into a counterweight to the US and the USSR. “The Germans are behaving like pigs. They are putting themselves completely at the Americans’ service. They’re betraying the spirit of the Franco-German Treaty. And they’re betraying Europe.”[11] Later, in 1965, the General told his closest aides behind closed doors: “The Germans had been my greatest hope; they are my greatest disappointment.”
Start building it with countries who agree now. Others will see the benefit and join later. It was the same with the EU itself.
Yep, that would also mean it would be simpler to setup a command structure and a working administration framework.
Are we sure that the EU is actually independend? When have the US lost their influence?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Élysée_Treaty
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Quoting ancient history that shows France was already fairly independent back then and that Germany wasn’t shortly after WW2 isn’t a very good argument.
Spain is calling for building a common defense capability because that is the one area where the EU isn’t as independent as it should be in light of how undependable the USA has become. This has already started to change.
Have you seen my reply to the other comment. The origin of the EU was the prevention of European independence.
The EU has accepted the American tariffs without a fight. Even if the EU is formally independent, are the people that run it, too?
Again, what de Gaulle thought in the 1960 of the initial stages does not tell you what the EU is today at all.
The reason the EU did not enter into a trade war at least so far is that economists would tell you it’s still less harmful to just negotiate them to be as low as can be and let them be on one side, they hurt the USA more than the EU. Also note that the EU is in the process of negotiating Mercosur and resolving their issues with Chinese EVs so part of their response is to try to open up more free trade with other countries. Trump trying to press for European territory with them and not sticking to anything agreed upon may change the calculus in the future though.
The thing is that we don’t know what the EU is today. That’s why I ask if we know the moment that the EU broke free. If we don’t know it, how can we be sure that it is?
E.g. if you look at the military, EU command infrastructure is shared with NATO. In every conflict, NATO has right of first refusal. So NATO takes over whenever NATO wants. Who has high command in NATO?
For Hungary we openly discuss the Russian influence and how Russia abuses the requirement for unanimousity. Does the US have a similar influence on any other EU country?
So your argument for the US being dependent on the US is the preamble of a treaty, which itself has no legal consequences of any kind?