Would community defense organizing be good?
If we reached the point where they came into my house I’d be fucked no matter what, so I’d take as many as I could with me. No use in making my death meaningless.
If they are in your home and you are at gun point, all you can do is play along and pray. Anyone saying otherwise is beating their chest or stupid.
If you were armed and responded with force, they will kill you. Period. Even if you manage to take down the initial force, you’re not leaving that house alive.
We need to do so many more things before the “they’re in my house with guns” stage.
Start by getting to know your neighbors. For real. If they are all right leaning, move. Surround yourself with like-minded people. Build mutual aid networks. They are far less likely to enter your neighbor’s home if you’re sheltering there, for example.
Have contingency plans on top of contingency plans. For example: you have a best case scenario fleeing plan. Decide where you’re going (ideally another country). Build out your time line, work on making it happen. Then plan less ideal ones all the way down to your “Anne Frank” plan. Who can you hide with long term?
For the Anne Frank scenario; what are your insurgency skills? You don’t have to be a fighter to be useful to your community. Learn, hone, and practice the skills that make you valuable to yourself and others.
Advanced tactic for people who aren’t afraid of dumb people and are social enough to make friends: get to know your right-leaning or centrist neighbors anyway, make them like you even if you’re a different race or culture. It’s far easier than most people think. Run to them for help. Make them confront the situation they would normally feel removed from. It’s amazing how often these people flip when they’re in the middle of it.
I sorta agree with this. I live in the Trumpiest state in this shitty union. I’m the most left leaning person on my block. I know most of my neighbors and they have gotten to like us. That said, there are some of them who I know would turn us in no matter what.
The area I live in is majority trump cultists. However I am a middle aged overweight white male construction worker, so I blend right in. Im going to be someones anne Franke hidey hole if it comes to that.
Doing the good work, comrade.
There are four boxes of liberty. The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box. Use them in that order
Soap and jury are out. We might not make it to ballot.
Would be incredible to see protest where they show up to any ice presence fully armed. Still act as observes but also to ensure ice doesn’t execute anymore Americans
Minnesota has “permit to carry”, so you need a permit to legally have a firearm in public. Other states have banned open carry at protests. There are legal barriers.
With everything that is happening I’m questioning my state’s assault weapon ban. The feds are unhinged.
Laws specifically targeting disarming leftist
They arrested a guy who had a concealed permit and his registered weapon on him
I edited it because my early morning brain doesn’t always come across clearly
Are you referring to Arturo Gamboa, who was shot at while protecting a No King’s Day protest? He eventually walked free, and the shooter was arrested.
I’d love to see all kinds of resistance to this.
If an armed militia shows up on the same street as ICE, but in greater numbers, there’s a pretty good chance these imposters leave.
I hope somebody’s working on building an app for recording everything possible and centralizing that information - license plates, photos, videos.
Perhaps homemade stingray devices that grab IMEI/IMSI numbers from agent’s phones, so that it’s easier to identify and link these agents between locations.
More people following them around to report on location and activities. Report on where they stay so that protests and obnoxious deterrence can be set up so that fewer businesses are willing to service these people.
There are so many more citizens than there are ICE agents. Doesn’t seem like it takes much to overwhelm them and push them out, so long as it’s coordinated.
Any and all kind of organizing are good. Don’t reinvent the wheel- find people who are already somewhat organized and go there and LISTEN. They will be less privileged than you but if you go in there humbly and say you’re a dumb shit and should have listened to them way way earlier then maybe things will work out. The elephant in the room is that you never cared about their lives and you obviously need help now, but you’ll be surprised how compassionate people can be. This is also a pretty good list.
‘Don’t reinvent the wheel’
Wait, this is horrible advice. It’s the opposite of what any successful entity does. The wheel here is a problem that the authoritarians have solved long ago. If you’re not reinventing it then you’re cooked before you even go to the store to buy your markers and bullshit cardboard supplies. They have studied the same old civil protests for decades. They have made laws to prevent protestors from being effective. They have decades of behavioral studies and actionable propaganda that they pull out and dust off every time you even think about sharing one of those ‘no kings’ or ‘general strike’ posts. Any protest you can imagine they have solved. If you don’t reinvent the wheel, you’re going to look fucking stupid when you show up with another 700m people and go home having accomplished nothing except get your leadership and organizers arrested.
That wheel needs to be reinvented. Look at the truck convoy. Hate them all you want but they did something brilliant. It was brilliant because at their top they had people who studied and knew police and authoritarian response and they found solutions to break them. After all, they were the authoritarians. They first drove through the streets across America to build awareness and hype. It’s a fucking parade. People came out and cheered on over passes as they rolled through. Others joined. Then they filled cities with so many vehicles and trucks that the police had no idea how to even responsed. How do police safely weave themselves into that formation to make arrests. Then what do they do with the trucks just sitting there? The truckers made it a street party to prevent police from committing violence. They invited families down to enjoy music and hot tubs while also shutting down major parts of cities everywhere neutralizing police ability to do their job.
The left do not have the same effort at the top. It’s lacking. But they need to figure it out super fast because I promise you if you’re just showing up to the streets with the same old shit then you’ve already lost. That wheel needs to be reinvented quick
Most ice agents will stand down facing a well armed militia. They’re just paid goons looking to take out aggressions against those who can’t fight back. Give them opposition and they’ll realize the pay cheque isn’t worth it.
There isn’t a well armed militia in my house.
Even one well armed person isn’t going to deter the 4-6 armed assholes they tend to send through your door.
If they come to kill me they’re gonna kill me. I can’t stop that. But that doesn’t mean I should make it easy for them.
You gotta make that home-field advantage work for you.
I can send you some great instructional videos from Kevin McAllister.
If the country has another federal election, heck… if the country survives past this at all, I think there’s going to be a major conversation about states rights versus federal rights. What we’re seeing in Minnesota is wild, bordering on something that could spark a localized civil war if people start violently standing up against this. The states should be able to come together and defeat the federal government at any point.
The Constitution grants the federal government the right to exist, and it belongs to the people. Not any one leader. Evidently some of that power needs to be pulled back.
Honestly DylanMc6 there is nothing you can do and no answer that will be correct. Do your best.
My advice is buy a shotgun, let them know you are armed and under no circumstances do you open your door to them. Once the door is open all hell will break loose and you will have to make some hard choices within seconds.
Protect yourself and your family at all costs and hope you don’t have to kill anyone to do it.
I’m actually non-binary, and I prefer gender-neutral and feminine terms. Seriously!
Ok. Buy a shotgun.
Please change your pronouns to [she,they] then.
Corrected. Thanks
That’s a calculation each of us has to make personally. If you are white, a citizen, have people that rely on you, and are wealthy enough that they can fight a legal battle for you, maybe don’t resist and hope for the best. If you are none of those, and you think you might get sent to a concentration camp or Africa, maybe defend yourself as best you can.
Good luck to everyone.
I think groups of openly armed citizens patrolling the streets would be a huge deterrent to ICE. These guys are violent bullies when they operate against unarmed people, but I doubt they are willing to mess with a mass of armed defenders.
But if the military continues to go along with Trump then this just may escalate things.
Alone, you are out-manned and out-gunned. Community is probably the best bet as bullies rely on uneven strength for their confidence. They’re untrained and want an easy target. Don’t give them it
I really wish there are free community defense classes
What kind of classes? Shooting? If so I’d say shooting won’t help much unless you have a community response to those threatening you. It just gives ammunition to those calling the American population dangerous, and trying to break them into groups so they can exploit hatred and fear. I believe that standing by all “groups” no matter what is what needs to happen. When someone tries to divide to conquer, the best answer I can see is avoiding any divides. The problem is it works on so many people, that about 30% of the country agrees that they have enemies in the country. Yet those people they think are enemies… Are no one they know, and would take as a friend if they were their neighbor.
Edit: that’s said as someone taught to shoot when I was 8 and has owned guns from 18, I’m 36. Guns aren’t the answer without community
All groups with one caveat. No Nazis. They can go fuck themselves.
2A. What it was intended for.
I’m from a suburb of Minneapolis. Civil engagement is a good way to go. Recent events (shootings) got people to get our city council to figure out what they could do for gun safety. ICE hasn’t touched our wealthy suburb yet, though. There hasn’t been a city meeting since Renee Good, as well. Next city council meeting will be 🔥
What can they do for “gun safety”? I’m fairly sure the woman murdered wasn’t because of lack of gun safety on her end.
I’ll also add, I’m Minnesotan. Also have connections to FFLs. So I’m getting a lot of the same news, we don’t really have a gun safety problem. We have laws about how to store firearms and ammunition. Shootings that have taken place aren’t for a lack of “gun safety”.
I wasn’t trying to imply the gun safety thing will make a difference in the current atmosphere. Just that pressuring and changing local government helps and is something to do. Idk man.
That’s fair. I will not argue that.
Unless you’re actually breaking the law and they’re not fake cops. In that instance you’re the asshole.
Some would argue that shooting real cops wouldn’t make you an asshole either.
You still wouldn’t be legal for doing so. But I wouldn’t say someone is an asshole just because they killed a cop.
I’d argue if a cop is trying to kill you instead of arrest you, which is their job, then yeah, killing them back isn’t exactly an asshole response.
You can be an asshole for something else in the situation, but not for the mutual killing.
Castle law exists for a reason.
That’s Malcolm Reynolds, not Castle. 😆
Hence the “and”.
be a browncoat, not a brownshirt.
I’m from Denmark, and reading this thread is really scary. What the hell is going on over there?
the people behind a 5 decade long plan to build amerikkka finally feel secure enough to take off their masks
Essentially a 1930s Germany speed run by the stupidest fascists you can imagine.
Just think those old black and white films of whimsical aviation fails. That is what they are in real life. We’ll see how history plays out. Not usually too well for these types. Just bad optics overall.
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Full Nazi takeover and not enough resistance although the ICE agent shooting Renee Good in the head three times has gotten some people to react.
The federal government is sending masked agents to brutalize and terrorize people is cities that are adversarial to their agenda.
It’s bad.
