Please, instead of more satirising toxic masculinity, can we have some more depictions of positive masculinity in lead roles like Aragorn from LotR?
Also, please feel free to list some good examples of positive masculinity in replies below because I and others I know could benefit from seeing more of that.
I’m not sure if anyone else said, but Uncle Iroh from Avatar the last airbender.
One of the best farther figures in media. His treatment of Zuko; as Zouk is finding out who he is and what he stands for. Truly inspiring role model stuff.
Also, please feel free to list some good examples of positive masculinity
Star Trek is kinda cheating, but Picard and Riker. Although some of Riker’s behaviour could be seen as “use and abuse of power for sex” in some scenarios, like hitting on people at 10 forward while serving as first officer in the ship they are in.
I still love the scene where for some reason Worf and Riker are in 10 forward, Riker is hitting on … someone and Worf says he wants to talk to that person. Riker’s reaction is basically “Oh shit, you wanted to get with her? All good my man, I’ll get out the way, you know me, dime’s a dozen, I fuck everyone”.
EDIT : I really like the way Star trek has lots of different examples on leadership styles and how there’s multiple ways of being a good leader. Even Jellico, although his way of handling a transition sucks.
Riker and Troi were in a big deal relationship before the events of TNG, and there’s a scene later in the show where they are talking about their respective relationships and giving each other advice and I find that quite wholesome. It’s not always easy or even possible to break up with someone and remain in contact, let alone friends, but it can happen under the right circumstances, and it’s nice to see a depiction of a breakup that doesn’t have to turn into enmity.
Most men in Star Trek would fall into this category. Sisko fills the top spot for me though, for his portrayal as a supportive, affectionate, and masculine father while balancing the responsibilities of wartime leadership.
Sisko fills the spot for me though, for his portrayal as a supportive, affectionate, and masculine father
I really like Sisko’s leadership style, and it’s exactly what I mean when it has multiple ways of being a good leader. Picard was formal , but in a way that he used it to indicate there was a structure and formality, but he used that structure and formality to indicate to his workers that they are being elevated by participating in the process of solving problems and being representatives of the federation; everyone’s input is valuable and that he is willing to give you the time of day and that you are also someone to be respected just like he is being respected.
Wheras Sisko was always right there next to his people; he knew them, he cared for them, and let you know that. He knew what you personaly needed, and what you needed differently than other people and he adjusted and knew exactly what to say and do when he interacted with you personally.
while balancing the responsibilities of wartime leadership.
… but yeah, fuck the “War Sisko” because he’s a lying, manipulative bastard with no regard for the value of life.
Just my 2 cents on a surface-level reading of the character because it’s also been a while since I’ve watched it.
Aragorn is strong and capable, with a generally masculine image about him. He’s handsome, good with a sword, rides horses, and commands respect by his presence.
But he is not prideful or boastful, he doesn’t seek glory, and he’s respectful to the women in his life.
At least the way the movies present it, his relationship with Arwen is one in which both partners are equal participants. Aragorn is not controlling, and Arwen isn’t some damsel who lacks agency without her man there to tell her what to do. And when Eowyn shows affection towards him, he is quick to respectfully decline her advances without leading her on, thereby preserving a positive and supportive relationship between them.
That might be the sort of thing people are referring to, as far as his characterization. There might be more examples, but that’s what I remember.
I feel like it falls to the same problem. They will see Ron Swanson, a tridimensional complex character and just flat it to the “cool macho” stuff and ignore his character growth and confuse aspects that are flaws but maybe charming or colorful to actual qualities.
It’s an issue with being able to identify and assimilate positive traits, I think. Ron is a stoic and self-disciplined which is often read as emotionally repressed unnecessarily strict dad energy. Instead, it should be read as introspection, strong personal accountability, and authenticity and intentionality of thought and action. Ron also isn’t a reactive persona; when something challenges his beliefs, he chops down a tree while he mulls over the idea and decides how he wants to move on from the experience. Without the nuance, it just looks like a dude gets mad and does man stuff with an axe until he cools off.
I bailed around season 5 I think (just after Leslie won the election), so I have missed some of it, but the arc I saw was him becoming more of a dumbass libertarian not less.
He’s obviously cool in a bunch of other ways, a funny character, and he has a pretty broad sense of equity.
I don’t think I could last long in a job that I was deliberately doing poorly, and hindering other people around me. I feel like that’s a setup that can deliver jokes in a sitcom, but he would be an absolute rage inducer in the office.
He has some really good character development in Season 5/6 as he becomes a father and discovers that being a good dad involves things like not booby trapping your house.
I’d argue these values are not inherently conservative, even if conservatism reinforces the idea of having those values and attempts to institutionalize some perverse variation of those principles.
While many conservatives and libertarians may profess to be principled, their actions demonstrate that they are full of shit.
I’m suddenly thinking about the relation between Boromir and Faramir, brothers who loved each other, and how Boromir never put his younger brother below him, instead even protecting him from their father, despite being the preferred child.
Honestly, a lot of bisexual and pansexual men and masculine characters are pretty well adjusted in part due to the fact that they are comfortable with who they are as a person and know what kinds of things make men attractive. Way too many men these days have a completely warped idea of what other people find attractive in men and toxic masculinity is built on a framework of those misconceptions.
Look, the man is making feature-length films about rabbit holes he never expected to find. The “Roblox OOF!” video was supposed to be about 10-20 minutes, but then he found the Tommy Tallarico absurdity and just couldn’t leave that part out.
I can fully expect a random day after 5 years of radio silence, we just get a 2 day long video posted about Chandler Bing that ends with a compelling argument for North Macedonia no longer being recognised by the UN.
I’m not entirely sure being in a constant state of panicked contingency planning is necessarily masculine.
Blowing shit up is, though.
(Really though, caring about his fellow crawlers and insisting on always helping as many people as possible is very cool of him, and would qualify as positive masculinity.)
It depends on how you play, but I think Arthur Morgan from RDR2 can be a positive masculine role model if you play high honor the whole game or choose redemption in its final act.
He’s not a great guy, even on a high honor playthrough, which I did do. He’s not the worst, most of the people the gang kills do definitely deserve it, but I still wouldn’t use him as a role model. Thomas Downes certainly didn’t deserve it though. Doesn’t seem to care much about women or their rights (well, not their suffrage, didn’t care about his own either). Wasn’t racist though. That was cool. I’d give him a 5.5/10 as a role model.
Please, instead of more satirising toxic masculinity, can we have some more depictions of positive masculinity in lead roles like Aragorn from LotR?
Also, please feel free to list some good examples of positive masculinity in replies below because I and others I know could benefit from seeing more of that.
Many Robin Williams’ characters (e.g., Dead Poets Society, Good Will Hunting, Awakenings…).
It depends on the version, but often, Gomez Addams from The Addams Family.
Waymond Wang in Everything Everywhere All at Once.
From Harry Potter and Fantastic Beasts, Hagrid and Newt Scamander, respectively.
Good-hearted heroes such as Captain America, Colossus, etc. The new Superman, probably. The Doctor from Dr. Who. Big etcetera.
In videogames, the latest I’ve seen is the protagonist of Vampire Therapist (and probably other characters too). Give that game a try, you all.
I’m not sure if anyone else said, but Uncle Iroh from Avatar the last airbender.
One of the best farther figures in media. His treatment of Zuko; as Zouk is finding out who he is and what he stands for. Truly inspiring role model stuff.
Also Bandit Healer 👍
Bandit Heeler (Bluey’s dad)
Having “you know what Bandit says, gotta be done” in the toolbox is great.
Star Trek is kinda cheating, but Picard and Riker. Although some of Riker’s behaviour could be seen as “use and abuse of power for sex” in some scenarios, like hitting on people at 10 forward while serving as first officer in the ship they are in.
I still love the scene where for some reason Worf and Riker are in 10 forward, Riker is hitting on … someone and Worf says he wants to talk to that person. Riker’s reaction is basically “Oh shit, you wanted to get with her? All good my man, I’ll get out the way, you know me, dime’s a dozen, I fuck everyone”.
EDIT : I really like the way Star trek has lots of different examples on leadership styles and how there’s multiple ways of being a good leader. Even Jellico, although his way of handling a transition sucks.
Riker and Troi were in a big deal relationship before the events of TNG, and there’s a scene later in the show where they are talking about their respective relationships and giving each other advice and I find that quite wholesome. It’s not always easy or even possible to break up with someone and remain in contact, let alone friends, but it can happen under the right circumstances, and it’s nice to see a depiction of a breakup that doesn’t have to turn into enmity.
Most men in Star Trek would fall into this category. Sisko fills the top spot for me though, for his portrayal as a supportive, affectionate, and masculine father while balancing the responsibilities of wartime leadership.
I really like Sisko’s leadership style, and it’s exactly what I mean when it has multiple ways of being a good leader. Picard was formal , but in a way that he used it to indicate there was a structure and formality, but he used that structure and formality to indicate to his workers that they are being elevated by participating in the process of solving problems and being representatives of the federation; everyone’s input is valuable and that he is willing to give you the time of day and that you are also someone to be respected just like he is being respected.
Wheras Sisko was always right there next to his people; he knew them, he cared for them, and let you know that. He knew what you personaly needed, and what you needed differently than other people and he adjusted and knew exactly what to say and do when he interacted with you personally.
… but yeah, fuck the “War Sisko” because he’s a lying, manipulative bastard with no regard for the value of life.
Even Kirk falls into this category.
I love that Aaragorn is kind of unanimously agreed on as one of the best examples of positive masculinity.
Me too and yet it’s been too ling since last rewatch - can anybody explain why?
Just my 2 cents on a surface-level reading of the character because it’s also been a while since I’ve watched it.
Aragorn is strong and capable, with a generally masculine image about him. He’s handsome, good with a sword, rides horses, and commands respect by his presence.
But he is not prideful or boastful, he doesn’t seek glory, and he’s respectful to the women in his life.
At least the way the movies present it, his relationship with Arwen is one in which both partners are equal participants. Aragorn is not controlling, and Arwen isn’t some damsel who lacks agency without her man there to tell her what to do. And when Eowyn shows affection towards him, he is quick to respectfully decline her advances without leading her on, thereby preserving a positive and supportive relationship between them.
That might be the sort of thing people are referring to, as far as his characterization. There might be more examples, but that’s what I remember.
He also freely shows love to the rest of the fellowship and expresses emotion without shame.
Removed by mod
Ron Swanson, and to a greater point Nick Offerman.
New movie Superman.
I feel like it falls to the same problem. They will see Ron Swanson, a tridimensional complex character and just flat it to the “cool macho” stuff and ignore his character growth and confuse aspects that are flaws but maybe charming or colorful to actual qualities.
It’s an issue with being able to identify and assimilate positive traits, I think. Ron is a stoic and self-disciplined which is often read as emotionally repressed unnecessarily strict dad energy. Instead, it should be read as introspection, strong personal accountability, and authenticity and intentionality of thought and action. Ron also isn’t a reactive persona; when something challenges his beliefs, he chops down a tree while he mulls over the idea and decides how he wants to move on from the experience. Without the nuance, it just looks like a dude gets mad and does man stuff with an axe until he cools off.
He’s also kind of a dumbass libertarian
If all libertarians were like Swanson, the world would be a better place.
This is our park and defiling it would violate the non-aggression principle.
Absolutely. He’s a naive libertarian not a person who hairsplits and downplays SA/pedo.
I mean, yeah. That’s for the character development and human flaws. Even Jean-Ralphio has some redeemable moments.
I bailed around season 5 I think (just after Leslie won the election), so I have missed some of it, but the arc I saw was him becoming more of a dumbass libertarian not less.
He’s obviously cool in a bunch of other ways, a funny character, and he has a pretty broad sense of equity.
I don’t think I could last long in a job that I was deliberately doing poorly, and hindering other people around me. I feel like that’s a setup that can deliver jokes in a sitcom, but he would be an absolute rage inducer in the office.
He has some really good character development in Season 5/6 as he becomes a father and discovers that being a good dad involves things like not booby trapping your house.
Very much the “positive traits of conservatives” you’ve listed there. Always annoying to realise there ARE some
I’d argue these values are not inherently conservative, even if conservatism reinforces the idea of having those values and attempts to institutionalize some perverse variation of those principles.
While many conservatives and libertarians may profess to be principled, their actions demonstrate that they are full of shit.
Love the after scene with Mr. Terrific…
https://youtu.be/tfCrd0ArwG8
Ted Lasso
Shoot, Tolkien wrote near countless depictions of positive masculinity. Certainly more good ones than bad.
I’m suddenly thinking about the relation between Boromir and Faramir, brothers who loved each other, and how Boromir never put his younger brother below him, instead even protecting him from their father, despite being the preferred child.
The emperor’s new grove Kuzco just needed a positive father figure which Pacha starts to be near the middle of the movie.
I’m going to let you finish but , Commander Will Ricker from TNG portrays positive masculinity, in the greatest way.
…“because I can get real ones any time I want!”
Malcolm Reynolds, most of the time
…well, he’s alright…
IRL? H. Bomberguy
In fiction? Deadpool.
Honestly, a lot of bisexual and pansexual men and masculine characters are pretty well adjusted in part due to the fact that they are comfortable with who they are as a person and know what kinds of things make men attractive. Way too many men these days have a completely warped idea of what other people find attractive in men and toxic masculinity is built on a framework of those misconceptions.
If only he fulfilled the positive role model aspect of being regular and dependable.
Look, the man is making feature-length films about rabbit holes he never expected to find. The “Roblox OOF!” video was supposed to be about 10-20 minutes, but then he found the Tommy Tallarico absurdity and just couldn’t leave that part out.
I can fully expect a random day after 5 years of radio silence, we just get a 2 day long video posted about Chandler Bing that ends with a compelling argument for North Macedonia no longer being recognised by the UN.
On the other hand :
Mar 5, 2022 3+hours
Nov 17, 2022 <2 hours
Dec 2, 2023 3+hours
It’s 2026. I’m not even a patron, but then, I don’t expect I’d have gotten a video from there either. (except the 10 min newgrounds one)
He doesn’t owe me shit, but I did want to make that zinger, and I would love to see more from him.
EDIT : Oh shit, he’s got “fuck adobe” in the works, and has already gotten an hour and a half done!
Uncle Phil from Fresh Prince (the Will Smith version, I think they tried to remake)
From all I’ve heard the actor (James Avery) was a good guy IRL as well
Carl from Dungeon Crawler Carl
I’m not entirely sure being in a constant state of panicked contingency planning is necessarily masculine.
Blowing shit up is, though.
(Really though, caring about his fellow crawlers and insisting on always helping as many people as possible is very cool of him, and would qualify as positive masculinity.)
No need to financially support Rowling, but Newt Scamander was a great example of non traditional masculinity in the first fantastic beasts movie.
It depends on how you play, but I think Arthur Morgan from RDR2 can be a positive masculine role model if you play high honor the whole game or choose redemption in its final act.
He’s not a great guy, even on a high honor playthrough, which I did do. He’s not the worst, most of the people the gang kills do definitely deserve it, but I still wouldn’t use him as a role model. Thomas Downes certainly didn’t deserve it though. Doesn’t seem to care much about women or their rights (well, not their suffrage, didn’t care about his own either). Wasn’t racist though. That was cool. I’d give him a 5.5/10 as a role model.
Best example of positive masculinity in media, for my money, is hands down Lars and The Real Girl.
Removed by mod