Was trying to figure out what rubs me the wrong way about this. I think it’s twofold. One reason is that it sounds little different from the pro-patriarchal line “man up” and two is that it sounds like rugged individualism solution to systemic problems.
But part of the problem is some of them do try to “mature and handle” it, and without proper guidance, what that leads them to sometimes is being even more toxic masculine. The problem people in question are not just the “incel” types who are complaining about women, they’re also the hyper-masculine types who are turning to hyper masculine ideas to feel less out of place. As the video touches on, this is self-defeating, as it makes them even more lonely due to going deeper into the isolating patriarchal model. But they may feel a certain amount of short-term companionship being around other men who are doing similar and this combined with the hyper masculinity and the imperialist socializing base is going to be a breeding ground for fascist organizing.
So it’s important to interrupt that pipeline and lead men toward alternatives to being bitter and/or hyper masculine. Being compassionate, for example, does not need to be seen as a gendered trait. Or being understanding, or thoughtful, or even gentle. There is a time and place for boundary setting, and in societies and struggles there is a time and place for organized militant action in order to be able to set certain kinds of boundaries and enforce them. But these things are not mutually exclusive with compassionate and thoughtful word and deed. In other words, compassion does not have to mean pacifism. Gentle does not have to mean defenseless. Understanding does not have to mean fawning. Etc.
White men may be better positioned to get drawn into this pipeline over others, but patriarchal issues afflict far more than them. Patriarchy, with some cultural variation to it, is a global level issue in scope and needs investigation into it on that level.
This is just further infantilising men who refuse to grow the fuck up I’ve tried that and it didn’t work instead of babying them and begging them not to join the far right you should be asking these men the hard questions like “why do you want a girlfriend?”, “how does having a girlfriend help you?”, “what if women just don’t want to date you because they don’t find you attractive and you should find other ways to find companionship”.
Who said anything about “begging men not to join the far right” as the solution? Edit: Like I would actually agree that asking people questions that challenge their assumptions is a generally good approach to at least starting them on the path to considering something different. So I’m not sure what this has to do with what I said, that you are saying it’s “infantilising.”
Was trying to figure out what rubs me the wrong way about this. I think it’s twofold. One reason is that it sounds little different from the pro-patriarchal line “man up” and two is that it sounds like rugged individualism solution to systemic problems.
But part of the problem is some of them do try to “mature and handle” it, and without proper guidance, what that leads them to sometimes is being even more toxic masculine. The problem people in question are not just the “incel” types who are complaining about women, they’re also the hyper-masculine types who are turning to hyper masculine ideas to feel less out of place. As the video touches on, this is self-defeating, as it makes them even more lonely due to going deeper into the isolating patriarchal model. But they may feel a certain amount of short-term companionship being around other men who are doing similar and this combined with the hyper masculinity and the imperialist socializing base is going to be a breeding ground for fascist organizing.
So it’s important to interrupt that pipeline and lead men toward alternatives to being bitter and/or hyper masculine. Being compassionate, for example, does not need to be seen as a gendered trait. Or being understanding, or thoughtful, or even gentle. There is a time and place for boundary setting, and in societies and struggles there is a time and place for organized militant action in order to be able to set certain kinds of boundaries and enforce them. But these things are not mutually exclusive with compassionate and thoughtful word and deed. In other words, compassion does not have to mean pacifism. Gentle does not have to mean defenseless. Understanding does not have to mean fawning. Etc.
White men may be better positioned to get drawn into this pipeline over others, but patriarchal issues afflict far more than them. Patriarchy, with some cultural variation to it, is a global level issue in scope and needs investigation into it on that level.
This is just further infantilising men who refuse to grow the fuck up I’ve tried that and it didn’t work instead of babying them and begging them not to join the far right you should be asking these men the hard questions like “why do you want a girlfriend?”, “how does having a girlfriend help you?”, “what if women just don’t want to date you because they don’t find you attractive and you should find other ways to find companionship”.
Who said anything about “begging men not to join the far right” as the solution? Edit: Like I would actually agree that asking people questions that challenge their assumptions is a generally good approach to at least starting them on the path to considering something different. So I’m not sure what this has to do with what I said, that you are saying it’s “infantilising.”
They set up those positions in the first place