MAGA Be Like: “Men”, are supposed to use “women”, to make “childred”. “trans women” Can’t do that, “trans women” bad
Yup.
We live in a country where if I get in the car with my girlfriend on the west coast and drive to the east coast, she gains and loses basic human rights multiple times before we reach our destination and nothing changes for me.
We can’t even treat our women with respect. Trash nation. Full stop.
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What right, shared by both men and women, differs from state to state only for women? Women have more rights than men do. If some of those privileges differ by state, why should I care? They already have more rights than men do. Women are a privileged class always demanding more privileges.
Men have to suffer twice as much to get any support at all.
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
You ever get talked over in a conversation?
You ever get talked over in EVERY SINGLE conversation? Every Fucking Sentance?
The pay gap? Regardless of actual worth? Only getting the job in the first place because you’ve got big tits, and ALL THE OTHER WOMEN who weren’t so “well endowed” were never even considered? Oh, and the boss and over half of the male staff ARE going to sexually harass you at a minimum, and likely try to rape you.
You ever get or lose a job based on how small your dick is? We know it ain’t a shower or a grower
The entire system is built to support us men. It’s like an ocean. Women’s rights are a tiny artificial sea wall constantly needing work to keep up with the relentless ocean of male dominance.
Unless those men are black, Hispanic, or neurodivergent.
You realize those prejudices get compounded, right?
What’s the name of that highway in canada, where they raped and murdered and dumped the corpses of native women?
Never a lead on any of those cases. I don’t think one was male, but hey, maybe there were a couple
Privileges certainly vary by race, but do 21st century laws vary?
The only example I can think of is reservation laws.
The varies WILDLY in how and when it is enforced, you fucking buffoon. Why isn’t trump in prison for fucking ever right now?
I’ve never even heard of someone else collecting felonies like beanie babies and not spending the rest of their life in jail.
There’s black folks Still in prison for petty weed crimes, on state charges, in states where it’s legal now and has been for years
Racism’s isn’t exclusive to gender. Try again.
The counter-claim is not that racism is exclusively a men’s issue. The counter-claim is that the claim “men’s rights don’t vary by state” is false, as evidenced an example of how men’s rights do vary by state. The implied part that should have been explicit is that the way racism manifests from state to state also has gendered aspects, with some disproportionately affecting women (e.g. hair/dress policing in the workplace) but some also disproportionately affecting men (e.g. incarceration). That is to say, racism and sexism are intersectional. Another example might be how custody rights typically vary from state to state often unjustly disfavoring the father, given all other things being equal.
I’d suggest that this argument does not go against the underlying position of OP that “patriarchy bad”, rather it corrects OP to highlight how institutional sexism typically falls along normative/conservative conceptions of gender for men too. That is to say “patriarchy bad mostly for women, but also bad for men too”.
Try not to “but what about men” challenge
Level: impossible
Tell me that when we ban male genital mutilation.
Aha aha aha but wait, it’s equally legal in every state, thus making it just fine. /s
Would an inconsistent law really be better?
It should be consistently restricted.
Point out to me where exactly adult men’s right’s vary by state? Excluding racism because racism isn’t exclusive to gender.
If you cut through the dog-whistling bullshit, there are a lot of issues with child custody, for example. Access to the correct restroom is also highly state dependent. While the legal aspect is only part of it, genital mutilation rates are also variable by state.
Look, this isn’t a competition. Two things can be bad at the same time.
No one said it’s a competition, I’m genuinely asking you. Even under child custody I would be interested to actual know the details, as one might be surprised. Access to the correct restroom, do you mean trans? Because that seems a separate issue from “men’s” rights
Similar as to women’s rights a lot of injustice is less enshrined in law and more in practice and societal reality. I.e. a comprehensive picture cannot merely be based on the detail of the law.
There is at least a parental choice involved. The government is actively removing women’s rights as we speak
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No where that i am aware of. I wasn’t trying to make that point? Although even non adult women are being affected, such as access to birth control
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Gotcha
I don’t get why people think saying things like “REPEAT THAT OUT LOUD” makes their point better. Let the horror speak for itself, it’s plenty capable of doing so.
Especially when it’s something untrue followed by “REPEAT THAT OUT LOUD”.
To be fair, given the apparent average reading comprehension of most social media users, it probably does actually make a difference
Social media users on text platforms are probably above average on reading skills. I’m convinced the average person is only semi literate, and there’s a shocking amount of people who can barely read at all.
This has been studied and it’s actually true
oh no, rethorical tools. what an horror
“an horror” is far scarier
boo
I mean when it’s something really obvious that the entire audience already knows it’s just obnoxious
I feel it’s only obnoxious because it’s uncreative. Theyre just using a template meme which feels low effort.
if you’re right and the audience knows it’s obnoxious, why do you repeat yourself? or using rethorical tools is ok when you’re using them?
honestly, it’s such a non issue.
It’s an issue to me because it’s really annoying 🤪
why use emojis if the meaning is clear? DAMN RETHORICAL TOOLS, WHY ARE THEY SO UNIVERSAL
I kinda just wanted to see what would happen if I did that lmao
(Also it does meaningfully change the tone of the message)
Yes it does, that is the point of rhetorical tools. otherwise imagine if it was costumery to send messages as succinctly as possible without any fluff or emotional tone. Communicating would be a pain.
My rule of thumb, if complaining about something annoying is even more annoying than the thing I am complaining about, it is not worth complaining about.
This is just blatantly false, men’s rights do vary wildly state by state. I get what this is saying and I agree with the message but presenting a good message behind a lie doesn’t make it any less of a lie.
I’m not American, can you say what those rights are?
I am also very supportive of women’s rights but lying is not helpful.
Honestly the point that it tries to make is not the point that it makes either. It could be understood as “let’s ban abortion everywhere”, and I don’t think that is the point that it tries to make.
I am in favor of bodily autonomy and I don’t care what the law currently is anywhere, it should be a given.
I am also very supportive of women’s rights but lying is not helpful.
Worth knowing: although they attract a lot of anti-feminist losers, the “men’s rights” activists are absolutely correct that men do not universally have the same support programs or even legal presumptions that women do. These can vary widely from state to state and even from court to court.
It’s not nearly as big an issue as “they want her to die from a miscarriage”, but “they presume he’s the inferior parent” or “they presume he caused the violence even if he’s the one bleeding” are also sexist oppression.
(Comparisons to the anti-woke “all lives matter” bullshit are apt – men can and should recognize that relatively minor slights and injustices are not nearly as urgent as denying pregnant humans life-saving care!)
To be fair, the vast majority of these are societal standards and not rights, they are still absolutely important and we need to do more for equality both for women and for men, but strictly speaking they are not by definition rights.
But I am in agreement with you that I think a lot of why the younger generation are being pulled in the wrong direction is because men, of which I am one, have not done enough to create an environment that addresses issues that primarily affects men in a way that is not based on misogyny.
Don’t get me wrong, the alt-right have absolutely tried to exacerbate these issues (either knowingly or unknowingly) and use them for their own gains, but we as a society have also not prioritized emotionally healthy solutions and that has led us to where we are.
I think we have a right to be judged fairly and not because of our gender or sex. But that’s a semantic point and I don’t want to quibble.
I do want to push back on excusing from women their responsibility for the society we live in, however. (Or just underline an implied point we may both share.)
Nearly every man I know values the opinions of women at least as much as those of other men. When a boy sees his mom belittle his father for being insufficiently manly, he hears a lesson that sexism is bad. When a man tells a boy that the way to get a girlfriend is to be a sexist jerk the boy listens, not because he cares about the con artist, but because he’s desperate for a girl who cares about him.
Men have a lot of the big levers of power, and do bear a proportionate share of our own blame, but we shouldn’t excuse women who use the power they have in ways that make our society worse.
We’re all in this together, and all need to do what we can to make the world we pass to our children better than the one our parents passed on to us.
I would agree and disagree.
You are right but I think “ignoring” “men’s issues” harms the feministic cause and consequently the “dying of miscarriage” problem. As sad as it is PR is sometimes very important and e.g. the lie in the post doesn’t help the PR and a lot of young men don’t feel supported but attacked by the current framing of feminism.
I think we agree and agree.
I was careful not to use the word “ignore”, because the answer to anyone sharing how they were harmed by sexism should never be anything less than “that’s horrible and I hate that it happened to you.”
Sexist women who claim to be “feminist” and yet feel free to denigrate men or dismiss their perspective are terrible advocates for the cause.
(Not “their” cause, because sexism is an evil that harms everyone and everyone should be against it.)
(And sealions who claim to be “men’s rights activists” but just want to be sexist anti-feminist trolls are at least as bad.)
Yup.
Glad someone responded to this like that.
As a man, try purport yourself the same from state to state, as if the rules and rights of one are carried over everywhere just because you’re a man. XD
What rights exactly? Racism excluded because racism isn’t exclusive to gender.
This idea of pretending like men don’t experience rights issues at the hands of the state is antithetical to forming an equal society, it only serves to disuade men from being feminists because “it isn’t for them”
I think that’s perhaps the issue with the post. It’s not men’s rights don’t vary by state. Because I’m sure there are some that do. I think the point here is what men’s rights to healthcare vary by state?
You should stop moving the bar so you can maintain a bad opinion of men.
It’s really weird.
It’s really weird that men want control over women. Maybe if they minded their own business I wouldn’t have a bad opinion of men.
You and I both know healthcare was the point of this post, so by ignoring that, you moved the post. Fuck off
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if you’re going to be pedantic then you’re sort of right. however, no state bans men from potentially life saving medical procedures when you need them.
Yes they do? There are all kinds of potentially life saving procedures that are illegal in various jurisdictions. There’s no state with a blanket ban that says women can’t get medical care. (Yet? Ugh.). And generally, abortions you’re referring to are equally illegal for men and women when they are banned. OPs post is intentionally and pointlessly divisive, badly tainting their message by basing it on a clear lie
it’s funny, abortions are banned equally for men as for women, therefore it isn’t a gendered issue?
Is 2025, men can get pregnant too.
I am trying too, after a year on grinder I did not get anyone pregnant, not even myself
Ugh. I mean shit guy really? Making the argument that it’s equally illegal for a man to get an abortion as a woman therefore it’s not different is the stupidest fucking argument I’ve ever seen in my life.
Men can and do get pregnant and can and do need abortions.
Um… so, first and foremost, I know trans people exist, however, I’m not sure how many men are rushing to get an abortion…
Does the number matter? This should be about equal rights for all people regardless of race gender, sex, genetic make-up, age, or governing body. Feminism is for everyone. Treating men like feminism is not for them keeps men from backing feminist causes.
Absolutely, but some laws can specifically impact the needs of a particular gender, historically pretty much always women. Treating everyone completely equal in cases like these tends to marginalize groups of people, which is why equity is more important than equality.
Which state is it illegal to get a vasectomy?
The post does not specify reproductive rights, it just says rights.
it just says women’s rights
Ftfy
Yeah, and women have other rights than those related to reproduction. The person you replied to was pointing this out.
Which state is it illegal to get a tubal ligation?
Which states is abortion, a life saving medical procedure illegal?
Sorry, I don’t have a direct men’s version of this.
I don’t know.
Which world is a vasectomy and tubal ligation the same as an abortion? Because that was the comment that I responded to.
They didn’t say it was that right specifically
No they are comparing men’s rights to women’s.
Women’s rights to life saving medical care (abortion) is being denied.
That is true, but it doesn’t mean the person you originally replied to is wrong. What they said is also true. Presenting what you did as a counterargument makes no sense.
As far as I know none. But barriers to being able to get one is wildly different. I know in New York, there’s a 30 day waiting period after having a consultation with the dr before they are allowed to operate.
Wow u really gottem
It seems like the same people that get mad about black lives matter, screaming white lives matter are here.
No, this is very different than that. This is about supporting one group without intentionally putting down another.
Women have a long history of having less rights than men.
When did they allow women to start voting? That is just one example
First, sorry, but it’s fewer rights, not less rights, since it’s countable.
Second, sure, that’s true. That’s not what this is about though. There’s no reference above to which group is more privileged. It’s only talking about the fact that, in some places, the rights of men (and all people) do differ. I’m sure you can recognize this is true, right? Some states protect (or, rather, don’t infringe on) some rights more than others, for all people, right? If you agree then the statement of the OP is definitively untrue, and the comment above is accurate.
Does anyone in this thread disagree with that? I haven’t seen a single example.
If someone posted “white women’s rights don’t vary state by state, but black women’s do”, they would rightfully be called out for posting nonsense. But you’d be there saying “no but black women have it worse tho” That’s the equivalent. It’s a clearly false statement intended to make one group an enemy instead of an ally and you shouldn’t be defending it so blindly
Spicy analogy but valid
Agreed, this message makes a valid point with good intentions, but it will likely face harsh criticism from misogynists - without actually achieving anything meaningful.
Why do you think it’s not possible to both acknowledge that women have it worse and also that there are things they negatively impact men as well? They’re not mutually exclusive.
Trying to fix men’s problems doesn’t mean women don’t have problems or the shouldn’t be fixed. Oppression Olympics aren’t productive for anyone.
This will also face criticism of normal people, and that kind of is the point.
If you put up messages like these, then automatically call valid criticism mysogenistic, then you can’t call yourself the good guy/gal anymore
This is like politicians making some bullshit argument about protecting kids from abuse and anyone trying to give criticism automatically is in the “are you a pedophile, then?” camp.
If you have an argument to make, make a valid one and keep your auto judgement system off.
Men’s rights don’t vary state by state, but women’s rights do vary state by state. There I said it out loud because I’m talking into my phone.
Well, minorities exist.
Racism’s isn’t exclusive to gender
If a right varies from state to state, it’s not a right, it’s a conditional privilege.
What if a bad supreme court can come in and take away rights? If that’s the case, then it doesn’t matter if it’s explicitly listed in some kind of constitutional document because the bad court can choose to interpret that document in such a way that the right disappears. By this definition, there’s no such thing as a right, because there’s always someone who can come in and take it away. There aren’t, and can not be, any actual rights, just conditional privileges.
But, that isn’t a very useful definition. In some sense, it’s obviously true. If a warlord takes over a country they might suddenly forbid something everybody assumed was a right. That’s why we have the saying “might makes right”. Fundamentally the only rights you really have are the ones that you’re strong enough to prevent someone from taking away. It certainly helps to have them written down in some kind of founding document, but it’s no guarantee of anything.
I’d argue they are still rights whether the law is behind it or not. These things are always a moral entitlement; not always a lawful one.
But like… Morals are relative. They’re frameworks built around core values, they’re not a property of the universe. They’re not self evident, they’re axioms we choose to value collectively
Rights are things that must always be fought for, and they can be both established and worn away. They’re a social construct
Rights are things that come before the law, they’re the boundaries of the law. But like the rule of law itself, they only exist through collective belief and action, otherwise they’re just words
I don’t think it needs to be dressed up more than that. Good things are good and bad things are bad, rights protect people from bad things from the state
You’ll never convince people who think good things are bad, because they don’t have good values. You shouldn’t engage with them on an equal level, because their values are inferior… At this point we just need to make it socially unacceptable to share their fucked up opinions
Didn’t know that George Carlin came back from the dead
Oh, so by your genius logic, slavery wasn’t a human rights violation—just a ‘conditional privilege’ for some states? And I guess age of consent laws are just ‘local customs,’ not protections? Congrats, you’ve outed yourself as the kind of brainlet who thinks rights are whatever’s convenient for your backward agenda. Sit down, you absolute embarrassment.
Are you ok? 👀
Men’s rights very much do differ by state but not anywhere near as significant
You are missing the point. There are no rights exclusive to men that vary by state. The only rights that vary by state for one gender are women’s rights.
Things like parental rights don’t apply here because those impact both genders (they are zero-sum; a decrease in men’s paternal rights implies an increase in women’s rights).
Only women have specific rights that ONLY impact women and vary from state to state
There are no rights exclusive to men or women. Abortion also affects trans men.
While you are technically correct, this is very obviously a discussion about reproductive rights, and the historical oppression of women as those who are most commonly impacted by reproductive rights issues. Your point is factual and valid but it is a distraction from the very important conversation being had here.
If this discussion leads to improved protection of reproductive rights, by pointing to the imbalance between traditionally male and traditionally female rights under US law, then trans men will also benefit. As such, the distraction of pointing out that trans men are also impacted therefore it’s “not just women” and the implication that we shouldn’t be talking about the ongoing oppression of women but rather “uterus havers”, works against your own interests.
The people who need to be convinced that reproductive rights need protection, and for whom the “it’s imbalanced” argument will be effective, are often even more vehemently opposed to trans issues. Bringing your point up here only serves to further entrench people who might otherwise be swayed to make changes that would benefit trans men. This is called “breaking into jail”.
There is a time and a place to have the “trans men are impacted by reproductive rights issues” discussion and this isn’t it.
I know it seems pedantic and normally I wouldnt interject but clearly based on your responses throughout this thread it needs to be brought up.
My omission of your point was intentional because as I said, in this context it’s not pedantic but rather self-defeating.
If we were in a different context I’d be right there with you championing the fact that trans men are effected by reproductive rights issues.
But for all the reasons I’ve already explained I chose not to bring transgender matters into this conversation because it only serves to make it harder to get the things you actually want, which is reproductive healthcare equality for trans men (and women).
It was a deliberate choice to meet my target audience where they are, knowing that a victory in that context would benefit trans men too.
Maybe make the point in a more direct and less confusing manner then? People are just critiquing the message because its written poorly. Its not even apparent its about reproductive rights until someone else clarifies that.
I knew immediately that it was about reproductive rights, but that’s just because that’s been the latest and most consistent snub against women lately.
If this were 40 years ago it would probably be about their ability to get a bank account or credit card without a man.
Or vote
Oh hush. The post clearly means the sexes not the genders.
Do you not think that access to abortion affects cis men too? Of course it’s far more important to the woman whose body is at risk, just not solely important to her. This is the kind of stupid divisiveness that doesn’t help.
No it doesnt. They state gender multiple times.
Hush? Like how women have been historically told to hush? Trans rights are every bit as important as women’s rights.
Transphobia flourishes when it’s dismissed, minimized, and forgiven.
The only differences between “men’s rights” and “women’s rights” comes down to unequal treatment by police and the courts. When we talk about abortion and rape, the group in question can be described a bunch of ways (“female”, “xx”, “uterus-having”) but not accurately simply as “women”.
Because trans-men are men, not women, and treating them as such is every bit as bigoted as treating trans women as men.
So you’re saying that in addition to the rights we all have, women have additional exclusive rights.
No, I’m saying that women are SUPPOSED to have the same rights as everyone (e.g. complete bodily autonomy) but have their rights restricted in varying ways from state to state.
This really isn’t that hard to understand. Women have had their rights restricted in ways that men didn’t for a long, long time. It’s so normal that you aren’t even aware of it.
They got the right to vote later than men.
They got federal protection for their right to have their own bank account without a man’s approval in 1974 for fuck’s sake.
Is it so hard to recognize that women’s rights are controlled in ways that men’s aren’t?
It’s not that hard to understand. Neither is “Men’s rights very much do differ by state but not anywhere near as significant.”
If you had just been reasonable and settled for that, I woudln’t be deliberately winding you up like this.
Female genital mutilation is illegal in the United States. Male genital mutilation is common practice. The discrepancies certainly aren’t equal, but they aren’t exclusively one-sided.
Let’s not forget that women have never had compulsory military service in the US either. I hear some things can happen to your body in war. I mean aside from it being mandatorily shipped away for months and years.
Yes, anyone pushing for that last inch of total exclusivity here has another think coming.
Name a state - or a country - where men have “(e.g. complete bodily autonomy)”. All the examples I can think you might think are false, so either I’m missing something or I’m gonna challenge you so badly I van taste the endorphins (or I’ll learn something, so win win for me)
They got the right to vote later than men
Yes. For example in UK, women got universal voting rights whole decade later than men.
The comical thing is that women don’t have the right to vote in the U.S., neither do men, they have the right to not be discriminated against when voting takes place.
e.g. If Florida says they will hold a vote by the population for representatives, they can’t say women exclusively can’t vote. But Florida could in theory state they won’t be holding a vote for the representatives, and the currently sitting members of their congress will pick their representatives instead. Sign that into law and poof, they just legally removed 23 million people’s right to vote
Well yes. In addition to the body parts we all have, women have some that are exclusive to them; and as they’re a bit special they require extra rights.
Well, no. Both sexes have body parts which are exclusive to them. And before you say “yeah but there’s nothing controversial or invasive happening to any male body parts” consider circumcision.
Which rights are exclusive to men?
The right to drink a beer while operating a riding lawn mower in full view of the public without wearing a shirt.
But that’s illegal for everyone. Even for women.
I think you have it slightly twisted. If you’re mowing your own lawn on your own property as a dude and showing a bare chest, you will find that there are no laws on the books in your locale prohibiting this. If you dare to show boobs while doing so, however, you are certain to cop an indecent exposure charge (or at least the threat of the same) if anyone sees you.
There are some exceptions where being out and about topless as a woman isn’t illegal, but these are indeed exceptions in specific states and municipalities, which is kind of the point of this entire thread. Nobody’s going to say anything to a guy doing this, even if he’s ugly.
Show me in the OP screencap where it says exclusive
Women’s rights vs. men’s rights.
Do women have the right to receive life saving medical care(abortion) as they should?
Amendment 2 varies by state county city. But not by sex. Lots of rules are state wise, not federal
What do you mean by this?
You can open carry where? You can own an assault rifle where? You can not open carry nor own a pistol where 18 vs 21 where?
All are questions of the second amendment. In NYC you can’t own a gun without privelege. In Orlando, you can now own one and carry one.
You’re missing the point: are any of those rights different my state only for men or are all of those rights different by state for EVERYONE including men and women?
There are no rights exclusive to men that vary by state. The only rights that vary by state for one gender are women’s rights
I was agreeing they didn’t vary by sex, but just to play devils advocate, rape. In many states only men can be charged with rape, because it defines it as penetration, and I don’t believe fingers count
There are no rights exclusive to men
You can kinda stop there, I mean, are there any rights exclusive to men? If there aren’t this is kind of a false dichotomy.
Not that I disagree with women’s rights of course, I’m just having trouble thinking of something that even would possibly “only apply to men.”
What’s amendment 2?
Electric bugaloo
The right to bear arms.
right to own bear arms.
Oh. Usually it’s phrased as second amendment.
Yep, I definitely think the whole phrasing of that comment is unusual. I understand the basic facts they are stating, but not the point of stating them.
I’m confused about what your point was in your original comment. I don’t get the relevance?
My original comment? I just answered your question as to what that other commenter meant by “amendment 2.” I didn’t say anything else? Did you not want someone else to answer your question and only want that commenter to?
The second amendment to the constitution
Liability for child and spousal support do vary by state.
Gendered inequity in criminal punishment does vary by state also.
Which rights are you referencing?
Equal Protection Clause found in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution.
My state gives unmarried fathers essential zero rights as a parent of the child. They are expected to provide financial support though.
I didn’t know what essential zero rights mean.
Like 0 rights.
I’ll give you my solidly blue, pretends to be progressive states take:
If you are the father of the child you are responsible for the child. Unless you are married to the mother of the child, you default to having 0 legal custody of that child and all matters of the child’s health and welfare are up to the mother to decide. You have no paternal rights to the child, but you do have paternal obligations.
If you marry the mother you are suddenly legally part of the equation and have more rights, but unless you’re married to the mother of your child you have no legal standing.
