• Flickerby@lemmy.zip
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    13 小时前

    This is just blatantly false, men’s rights do vary wildly state by state. I get what this is saying and I agree with the message but presenting a good message behind a lie doesn’t make it any less of a lie.

    • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
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      10 小时前

      I am also very supportive of women’s rights but lying is not helpful.

      Honestly the point that it tries to make is not the point that it makes either. It could be understood as “let’s ban abortion everywhere”, and I don’t think that is the point that it tries to make.

      I am in favor of bodily autonomy and I don’t care what the law currently is anywhere, it should be a given.

      • DomeGuy@lemmy.world
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        8 小时前

        I am also very supportive of women’s rights but lying is not helpful.

        Worth knowing: although they attract a lot of anti-feminist losers, the “men’s rights” activists are absolutely correct that men do not universally have the same support programs or even legal presumptions that women do. These can vary widely from state to state and even from court to court.

        It’s not nearly as big an issue as “they want her to die from a miscarriage”, but “they presume he’s the inferior parent” or “they presume he caused the violence even if he’s the one bleeding” are also sexist oppression.

        (Comparisons to the anti-woke “all lives matter” bullshit are apt – men can and should recognize that relatively minor slights and injustices are not nearly as urgent as denying pregnant humans life-saving care!)

        • Pelicanen@sopuli.xyz
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          3 小时前

          To be fair, the vast majority of these are societal standards and not rights, they are still absolutely important and we need to do more for equality both for women and for men, but strictly speaking they are not by definition rights.

          But I am in agreement with you that I think a lot of why the younger generation are being pulled in the wrong direction is because men, of which I am one, have not done enough to create an environment that addresses issues that primarily affects men in a way that is not based on misogyny.

          Don’t get me wrong, the alt-right have absolutely tried to exacerbate these issues (either knowingly or unknowingly) and use them for their own gains, but we as a society have also not prioritized emotionally healthy solutions and that has led us to where we are.

          • DomeGuy@lemmy.world
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            2 小时前

            I think we have a right to be judged fairly and not because of our gender or sex. But that’s a semantic point and I don’t want to quibble.

            I do want to push back on excusing from women their responsibility for the society we live in, however. (Or just underline an implied point we may both share.)

            Nearly every man I know values the opinions of women at least as much as those of other men. When a boy sees his mom belittle his father for being insufficiently manly, he hears a lesson that sexism is bad. When a man tells a boy that the way to get a girlfriend is to be a sexist jerk the boy listens, not because he cares about the con artist, but because he’s desperate for a girl who cares about him.

            Men have a lot of the big levers of power, and do bear a proportionate share of our own blame, but we shouldn’t excuse women who use the power they have in ways that make our society worse.

            We’re all in this together, and all need to do what we can to make the world we pass to our children better than the one our parents passed on to us.

        • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
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          7 小时前

          I would agree and disagree.

          You are right but I think “ignoring” “men’s issues” harms the feministic cause and consequently the “dying of miscarriage” problem. As sad as it is PR is sometimes very important and e.g. the lie in the post doesn’t help the PR and a lot of young men don’t feel supported but attacked by the current framing of feminism.

          • DomeGuy@lemmy.world
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            4 小时前

            I think we agree and agree.

            I was careful not to use the word “ignore”, because the answer to anyone sharing how they were harmed by sexism should never be anything less than “that’s horrible and I hate that it happened to you.”

            Sexist women who claim to be “feminist” and yet feel free to denigrate men or dismiss their perspective are terrible advocates for the cause.

            (Not “their” cause, because sexism is an evil that harms everyone and everyone should be against it.)

            (And sealions who claim to be “men’s rights activists” but just want to be sexist anti-feminist trolls are at least as bad.)

    • Digit@lemmy.wtf
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      6 小时前

      Yup.

      Glad someone responded to this like that.

      As a man, try purport yourself the same from state to state, as if the rules and rights of one are carried over everywhere just because you’re a man. XD

    • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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      8 小时前

      if you’re going to be pedantic then you’re sort of right. however, no state bans men from potentially life saving medical procedures when you need them.

      • stevestevesteve@lemmy.world
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        8 小时前

        Yes they do? There are all kinds of potentially life saving procedures that are illegal in various jurisdictions. There’s no state with a blanket ban that says women can’t get medical care. (Yet? Ugh.). And generally, abortions you’re referring to are equally illegal for men and women when they are banned. OPs post is intentionally and pointlessly divisive, badly tainting their message by basing it on a clear lie

        • njm1314@lemmy.world
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          7 小时前

          Ugh. I mean shit guy really? Making the argument that it’s equally illegal for a man to get an abortion as a woman therefore it’s not different is the stupidest fucking argument I’ve ever seen in my life.

        • NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ@lemmy.world
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          7 小时前

          Um… so, first and foremost, I know trans people exist, however, I’m not sure how many men are rushing to get an abortion…

          • Jyek@sh.itjust.works
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            3 小时前

            Does the number matter? This should be about equal rights for all people regardless of race gender, sex, genetic make-up, age, or governing body. Feminism is for everyone. Treating men like feminism is not for them keeps men from backing feminist causes.

            • NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ@lemmy.world
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              30 分钟前

              Absolutely, but some laws can specifically impact the needs of a particular gender, historically pretty much always women. Treating everyone completely equal in cases like these tends to marginalize groups of people, which is why equity is more important than equality.

      • Soulg@ani.social
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        10 小时前

        The post does not specify reproductive rights, it just says rights.

        • kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          8 小时前

          Which states is abortion, a life saving medical procedure illegal?

          Sorry, I don’t have a direct men’s version of this.

          • FauxLiving@lemmy.world
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            4 小时前

            I don’t know.

            Which world is a vasectomy and tubal ligation the same as an abortion? Because that was the comment that I responded to.

        • kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          9 小时前

          No they are comparing men’s rights to women’s.

          Women’s rights to life saving medical care (abortion) is being denied.

          • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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            7 小时前

            That is true, but it doesn’t mean the person you originally replied to is wrong. What they said is also true. Presenting what you did as a counterargument makes no sense.

      • lapping6596@lemmy.world
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        8 小时前

        As far as I know none. But barriers to being able to get one is wildly different. I know in New York, there’s a 30 day waiting period after having a consultation with the dr before they are allowed to operate.

        • kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          8 小时前

          It seems like the same people that get mad about black lives matter, screaming white lives matter are here.

          • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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            8 小时前

            No, this is very different than that. This is about supporting one group without intentionally putting down another.

            • kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              8 小时前

              Women have a long history of having less rights than men.

              When did they allow women to start voting? That is just one example

              • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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                8 小时前

                First, sorry, but it’s fewer rights, not less rights, since it’s countable.

                Second, sure, that’s true. That’s not what this is about though. There’s no reference above to which group is more privileged. It’s only talking about the fact that, in some places, the rights of men (and all people) do differ. I’m sure you can recognize this is true, right? Some states protect (or, rather, don’t infringe on) some rights more than others, for all people, right? If you agree then the statement of the OP is definitively untrue, and the comment above is accurate.

          • stevestevesteve@lemmy.world
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            7 小时前

            If someone posted “white women’s rights don’t vary state by state, but black women’s do”, they would rightfully be called out for posting nonsense. But you’d be there saying “no but black women have it worse tho” That’s the equivalent. It’s a clearly false statement intended to make one group an enemy instead of an ally and you shouldn’t be defending it so blindly

    • varnia@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      11 小时前

      Agreed, this message makes a valid point with good intentions, but it will likely face harsh criticism from misogynists - without actually achieving anything meaningful.

      • Soulg@ani.social
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        10 小时前

        Why do you think it’s not possible to both acknowledge that women have it worse and also that there are things they negatively impact men as well? They’re not mutually exclusive.

        • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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          9 小时前

          Trying to fix men’s problems doesn’t mean women don’t have problems or the shouldn’t be fixed. Oppression Olympics aren’t productive for anyone.

      • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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        9 小时前

        This will also face criticism of normal people, and that kind of is the point.

        If you put up messages like these, then automatically call valid criticism mysogenistic, then you can’t call yourself the good guy/gal anymore

        This is like politicians making some bullshit argument about protecting kids from abuse and anyone trying to give criticism automatically is in the “are you a pedophile, then?” camp.

        If you have an argument to make, make a valid one and keep your auto judgement system off.