cross-posted from: https://ttrpg.network/post/27970929
Recently the server staff received an e-mail telling them to moderate the Discord server and the server chat on what they deem to be “appropriate.”
Below is a message from owner of the server.
Free Speech Under Attack
Dear friends, I don’t often post announcements of this sort, but I feel it’s very important for you all to know what’s currently going on.
From the very start, over 15 years ago, one of the key founding principles of MinecraftOnline has been free speech. What started out as an uncontroversal, common sense policy, has proved to be a cornerstone of this increasingly unique community. As time has passed and Western society has wavered back and forth in its political leanings, free speech has repeatedly come under attack for political reasons. It has now become common to see arrests for posts on social media in countries such as Britain and Germany, in the name of political control, which have overtaken the numbers even of traditionally totalitarian countries such as China and Russia - a truly dystopian nightmare for freedom of expression and personal liberty.
Throughout this decade and a half of change, MinecraftOnline has held steadfast to its libertarian principles, and remained an oasis of freedom and openness in an increasingly closed and controlled internet. That is, until now.
Microsoft, through their subsidiary Mojang, have issued an ultimatum to MinecraftOnline. We have been told to do away with our free speech policy (which long pre-dates Microsoft’s acquisition of Mojang), within 7 days, or face a a permanent block. If that happens, nobody will be able to play on MinecraftOnline again, and the 15-year history of this beloved server will come to a sudden and bitter end. The full email we have received today, signed facelessly only as “Mojang Enforcement”, is included below.
The email makes extremely vague claims about “harmful interactions” and “harmful comments”, and we are asking Microsoft to clarify what specific interactions and comments they consider harmful. In the meantime, please spread the word, share this info on social media. Defend free speech.
-SlowRiot
I’ve been playing on this server for several years and have posted about it on here before. They have no claims system but do have a strong anti-griefing policy that allows builds from more than a decade ago to remain untouched (map). You can go exploring, and you will find builds from 2010 and new builds from a couple of months ago. It’s pretty cool seeing how building styles developed from back in Minecraft Alpha to now.
The “free speech” chat policy isn’t entirely unrestricted. The servers are hosted at Hetzner in Germany and are therefore bound to their laws. This means things such as swastikas are not allowed (neither as builds nor in chat). There have been cases where people use the n- or f-word, but it’s not common, and will not be appreciated by most players.
The owner (SlowRiot) is an interesting character. He runs a game studio and is a former director of Mensa UK with whom he had a legal fight a couple years back. He is not that active but checks on the server every so often. (SlowRiot’s MCO wiki page)
The server has been having several technical issues for a while. It is still stuck on version 1.12.2. It has various custom Sponge plugins which are still being ported over. Furthermore, it also has issues with lag, comparable to a heavily modded minecraft server.
EDIT: This is the mail in question
And the followup mails
/ignore is a pretty damn good feature if you ask me. Sad this is dismissed as “Failure to act”
Microsoft is coming back just like good ol’ days…
Really goes to show how much a headline can sway the narrative.
Oh no, the oldest minecraft server? How could Microsoft do this? Microshit bad!
I didn’t even need to read anything from Mojang or Microsoft. As soon as I saw the Owners statement I knew this was bigots complaining about not being allowed to be shit humans wherever they like.
“Free speech under attack”, “ultimatum”, “libertarian principles”. “Oasis of Freedom and openness”? Really? These guys are sad that Microsoft won’t let them use official channels to say the n-word anymore.
Looks like they are allowed to continue being bigots, they just can’t use Microsoft’s official systems to do it.
Sense when did Microsoft become the “speach police”, I’m all for them shutting down problem accounts when they’re reported, but their place isn’t to patrol the chat like a physco mother reading all her kid’s texts.
No one is forced to play on a Minecraft server, if you don’t like the people there, you can leave and find somewhere else.
Corporations are only after profits, they’ll moderate based on whatever’s popular at the time and doesnt hurt their profits. Look at all the gambling/pay to win servers they don’t shit about.
Isn’t this just terminating their official partner status? I’m pretty sure they can still run their server, just not be an official partner.
The malignment of anyone supportive of free-speech with ‘obviously they’re bigots’ is a really dumb take that plays into the hands of oppressive governments.
Considering their examples of ‘free speech under attack’ being the UK and Germany - places that have absolutely stomped on Palestine-support protesters over the last few years, I think your assumptions could be completely off base.
They are not using Microsoft’s official systems at all - this is an expensive self-hosted services that they run, so maybe, instead of jumping to comment and saying “I don’t even need to read Mojangs statement” you probably should next time.
Free speech doesnt mean you can selfishly say anything you feel like. Humans are social creatures, words are real and have meaning and impact. Clearly the admins of this server can’t tell the nuance of that, and are just petulant children upset someone told them they were hurting other people and should stop.
Clearly the admins of this server can’t tell the nuance of that, and are just petulant children upset someone told them they were hurting other people and should stop.
I didn’t even need to read anything from Mojang or Microsoft.
Ahh the nuance is killing me!
Didn’t even need to read anything from Microsoft
These guys are sad that Microsoft won’t let them use official channels to say the n-word anymore.
Looks like they are allowed to continue being bigots
You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain [of free speech].
The fact that they don’t point to all of the political arrests and disappearing of people in the United States is interesting. Yet they are concerned about free speech.
Doing a Nintendo.
I get why people are having trouble defending them but it’s really not cool that Mojang is pushing to enforce their own personal requirements on self-hosted servers. It’s one thing if it was an official server or hosted on realms or something, but this is just a bit too far in my opinion.
And given the recent pivots by tech companies in the US there’s very little reason to think this same set of rules couldn’t be applied to groups like trans people in the future.
It’s better to push back on this sort of stuff early, instead of waiting for it to personally impact you once it’s already built up momentum.
We can push back on it once it effects an innocent server, which this isn’t.
They can still run the server cracked if they really wanted. They just won’t be allowed to use Mojang’s authentication servers.
But at the end of the day, it’s still their IP, they can do what they want and we can choose to play Minecraft or not when that happens.
Try not to choke on the boot.
Ah yes, just regurgitate phrases you have heard.
I couldn’t give a shit about Microsoft at all, I hope the company folds. I also couldn’t give a shit about a hate harboring Minecraft server, so I’m not going to defend it, even remotely.
So I was just laying out the facts of the situation, they can legally do what they want in this regard, the server owner agreed to this when starting the server in the first place.
Don’t just dismiss facts because they don’t immediately align with your point of view, that’s very dangerous.
Its an .ml user.
The fact they’re using bootlickkng as an insult is just fucking hilariously lacking in self awareness in it’s own right.
MinecraftOnline has held steadfast to its libertarian principles, and remained an oasis of freedom and openness in an increasingly closed and controlled internet.
Huh, can’t imagine what sort of harmful content was being shared!
I’ve been on there before and I don’t think politics was ever really talked about
Rainbows.
Given the reference to people being arrested in the UK (and M$'s participation in Israel’s genocide), likely Palestinian flags.
I’m confused - how can Microsoft enforce this? Aren’t individually hosted Minecraft servers outside of Microsoft’s direct control?
If this server is hosted on azure or something they would have control over, then yeah, I suppose they have to comply with Microsoft’s rules.
I have no idea how MC is handling it. Some people are talking about phoning home. That might be the only method. However, it could also be baked into the client to not connect to certain banned IPs. It wouldn’t be hard to remove this, but it would prevent any unmodified clients from connecting to them.
Several actions on a server ping Microsoft’s servers for authentication, I couldn’t login to my self hosted server because of the azure outages yesterday
Interesting, I gotta look into that more.
I’d prefer if my server for my friends didn’t phone home
That’s called offline mode. It’s a setting you can choose in the server configuration. The drawback is that there is no official account validation (because of course there can’t be, since it’s not reaching out to the authentication servers), meaning you have to basically “bring your own security”, installing a client whitelist or some other authentication method otherwise it’s open season to trolls, and that’s why it’s not as common as you might imagine it would be.
There are custom ways of validating account
There’s an “online mode” setting you can set to false, but you also won’t have skins, and if your server was online, your inventory will be reset, and so will your spawn point
“you also won’t have skins” is fucking wild if true given those are just tiny, local assets.
They’re not tiny local assets, they’re tiny assets tied to your account and downloaded on demand from official servers, including if you don’t even join a server and just have your player head/skull spawned in in some way.
It would be nice to be able to officially have skins in offline mode, but that’s not how the game is meant to be run, and a minor enough thing I don’t really see it as an issue.
They are tied to your
MojangMicrosoft account, though.Yup
You’re technically bound by the Minecraft/Microsoft EULA. As others have noted, the game phones home for authentication, so Microsoft can control that.
That said, if they’re hosting the Java edition it is absolutely trivial to defeat the authentication. This is technically a license violation, but if I were these guys I would just become a pirate server and build Microsoft a nice 128 block tall obsidian and sea lantern middle finger.
How is it a liscence violation if its already coded in and you just have to change from block to allow?
Every Minecraft server uses Mojang’s authentication servers, so every login attempt has to go through Mojang. That’s how they can enforce these things.
I’d imagine disabling authentication prevents this - but also makes a whitelist probably impossible
you can still use the whitelist, technically, but I’m pretty sure anyone could just spoof an account id in that case.
so if your server is on the open web, that’s a bad idea.
if you’re running on a private network via VPN or something similar it doesn’t matter, since authentication is handled by joining the network instead of the server.
we just use zero tier for our servers; nice and hassle-free, private connection, no mojang servers necessary! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
(technically the server doesn’t even need an internet connection, just the VPN interface)
Most offline servers just have a password system
oh right! forgot that’s a feature! good point!
The biggest issue here is the server using the trademark “Minecraft”. This feels like a threat to take actions for using that name if they don’t align with what Microsoft wants. Which is reasonable, the server calls itself “MinecraftOnline”. Microsoft does have a reasonable right to put a stop to that usage if it reflects badly on their branding.
Once the server stops using their branding, then Microsoft loses a lot of it’s teeth, especially outside of the game itself (like on discord). Even in the game, if it is java edition and requires a direct IP connection Microsoft has very little ground to stand on, but they could kick them off Realms, if they are present.
That’s one thing I miss about old games. Anyone could run a game server, and you could always directly connect to them even if they weren’t listed on the server list, or gamespy was down.
Did Microsoft mention their branding though? I could understand if they just said “please stop using our branding” but it seems different than that
Your right, that’s not mentioned here, but that is pretty much their only legal tool to enforce this request. If I were the server in question, I’d drop the Minecraft branding off my server name real fast.
So what I gathered:
Microsoft told them they were a partner server (they aren’t)
Microsoft said they disobeyed community guidelines (Which were for users only. They were also written after the server not only released, but it’s running 1.12, which was released before these “guidelines”)
The server has been using the term “Minecraftonline” before Minecraft was even trademarked
Someone asked someone on Microsoft’s moderation team and they cited a screenshot of a message from a banned player talking about masturbating in the shower.
Source: https://youtu.be/7R7toMRMz3s
it’s probably 2 ways:
first: every public server (and really every server) needs to include an acknowledgement of the EULA that comes with the server files, or the server won’t even start. so this is something that the server host has already agreed to. if they are in violation of the EULA, then they can probably be forced to comply with a cease and desist or similar legal action by a court order.
second: if the server is discoverable in-game via mojang hosted services, i.e.: if you can just search “Minecraft online” on the multiplayer menu in-game and find the server, then they can kick them off that service. pretty sure that’s the IP ban they are talking about, but could be something else too (don’t know enough about how big Minecraft instances are managed, i just play with friends on self-hosted servers where all of this is irrelevant, since they are private anyways)
apart from that i guess general lawsuit shenanigans against the hoster, which could mean either the Minecraft online team, or, if they are using a hosting service to run the servers, the hosting service itself.
so there’s quite a few ways, all except the second would effectively kill the server.
all that said… I’m very suspicious about the entire exchange:
the words “libertarian” and “free speech” are almost always code for bigotry.
and the mojang email is super weird too; why is there zero concrete examples of what the problematic content actually is? it’s absurdly vague and impossible to comply with.
which would also make sense if the first assumption is true, that it’s a server full of bigotry, then mojang might feel that there is no need for examples, since they assume the hoster knows exactly what they’re talking about…
anyways…very, VERY weird situation.
one of the two is definitely dishonest, but i can’t say for sure which one… although I’m leaning towards the server hosters for now…seems suspicious…
Minecraft doesn’t have a server browser, you have to input the hostname directly.
The way it works is Mojang publishes a text file of all the banned hostnames and the client downloads this when it starts up. If the server it tries to connect to matches any entries in the blacklist, the connection attempt fails with a cryptic network error.
It’s very shady.
shady and it sounds extremely easy to circumvent: just replace the file with an empty/blank one…
do forge servers also download the blacklist? cause it can’t remember ever seeing one, and I’ve set up a lot of servers…though i never went looking for the list either…
re: server list; you can search for servers though, right? cause i seem to remember that mojang used to provide a service to have servers searchable without the IP address, kinda like a DNS service in-game.
am i misremembering?
I could be misremembering, because i haven’t played anything other than heavily modded MC for like 10 years… and always on self hosted servers, where you always need the IP anyways…sooo… that’s one part of Minecraft I’ve never really interacted with…
Great point about the eula=true flag.
Yeah the whole thing seems odd to me. It’s gotta be discovery on the in game browser they are referring to.
But why mention discord? How does Microsoft even know what discord channel is related to what server?
good question!
i think it might have to do with Intellectual Property law:
since the discord server, presumably, uses the name “MinecraftOnline”, that means they are using Mojang’s trademarked name.
which means Mojang can probably take legal action, if they feel like the conduct surrounding either the discord or the Minecraft server is damaging their reputation.
and i think that’s not even necessary, since i doubt Minecraft Online has an agreement in place to even use the name “Minecraft”, so I’m pretty sure they can be nuked via cease and desist at basically any point by Mojang for any reason…
something else I’ve realized since the previous comment:
i read in a different comment that apparently Minecraft servers authenticate against Mojang’s server at login/join to a server…that seemed really weird to me, since i know for a fact all of my servers run just fine without any internet at all!
…then i remembered that i exclusively play heavily modded (neo-)forge packs, and forge comes with it’s own server binaries, so i guess that’s why I don’t have to worry about authentication much!
(the user profile/MS account is cached in the launcher, so i do have an official account, it just doesn’t need to authenticate at every login and certainly not when joining a server. don’t know if that ever runs into a timeout though…maybe it does need a connection to mojangs servers every X days or something? dunno…)
It sounds like this might be similar to delisting - MinecraftOnline won’t be allowed to authenticate users against the server,
and presumably won’t be discoverable through whatever server discovery Minecraft uses. I assume Microsoft controls those.They don’t have server searches, it sounds like it’s all about authentication - without this, they need to set up their own whitelists, and custom skins won’t transfer.I’m a little shocked “Thank you for your attention to this matter” is used seriously…
What’s the best way to play Minecraft on Linux these days?
Prism is a good all around because you can use offline accounts. I like ATlauncher for setting up servers quick though. They both work well but ATlauncher doesnt allow offline accounts.
So as far as I can tell, I’d need to buy the Java and Bedrock version from their website, then Prism launcher allows me to play it?
My main goal is I want my son to be able to play with his friends.
PrismLauncher by far
Prism Launcher
Luanti (formely Minetest) began as a Minecraft clone but they are slowly getting away from the original with their own ideas. It is FOSS.
You can try that. Otherwise, Mojang has official release for debian based distro, arch based distro and a generic package for linux.
I use the technic launcher still - works fine.
I tried MultIMC and like it fine
I recommend going with the PrismLauncher fork, it allows you to download everything right inside the launcher.
I don’t know if it’s the best way, but I just download and install it as Linux is officially supported.
Does Minecraft have a client side server blacklist?
I thought they only did this for BE servers because of the way they have the multiplayer tab setup, but I don’t see how Mojang would be able to successfully enforce a server ban outside of litigation.
As someone else mentioned, these seems more like its because MO has “Minecraft” in their server name more than anything because afaik the server definitely isn’t as huge and popular as it used to be.
Any examples of what Mojang are talking about? There’s free speech and then there’s hate speech. If the latter is the problem, then I can understand their position and desire to take the server offline.
I imagine, from the constant mention of free speech, that the server is just rampant with hate and slurs more than anything. Which in that case, fuck them, take the server down.
Take this with a grain of salt, as I’m a commoner on the server.
While freedom of speech means you can yell whatever racial slurs you want, it doesn’t mean you are free from consequences. When you start saying bigoted stuff on the chat, you will be targeted by players and get /ignore’d.
I would advise you to make your own judgement by reading the chat logs on Discord or IRC, but not everybody has that amount of time. Some people said vile stuff here, but every time someone says some weird stuff, it always gets backlash, and it definitely isn’t a nazi breeding ground.
I don’t think anywhere that allows racial slurs is a good place to exist and Mojang have every right to close that shit down. I don’t know why anyone would be okay with hate just being allowed, it’s just pointless and does nothing for humanity. Whether or not you think it’s a “nazi breeding ground”, hate just being an open thing IS going to breed more hate. If everyone is just going to ignore someone who is hateful (they are not going to), then just ban them anyway?
I don’t need to read logs, I’ve already heard all I need to know. I hope the server changes its rules, or gets promptly closed.
well, idk if there’s examples, but their server has an “anything goes” policy with regards to chat. they explicitly mention racial slurs as a thing you are allowed to say.
so yea, fuck that. archive the map for it’s historical value and close the server. it’s been unplayably laggy for years anyway, we’re not losing much.
Said like a true lemmy.blahaj.zone user lol.
Ironic considering many of us are here because we got banned from reddit under the same premise. “safety and respect” my ass, I saw a 15+ year old reddit account get banned because he made an LGTV bandwagon joke in a 50 comment thread chain.
Yeah, well in that case, don’t even give them the 7 days, just immediately close that shit down.
If you don’t like it, don’t play on it.
That’s what Mojang is doing. They decided to not play on it anymore…
No, Mojang never played on it in the first place. They weren’t affiliated with Mojang.
That’s a bold statement considering we are talking about a Minecraft server…
Minecraft Servers are run independently of Mojang. All that mojang does is verify the Minecraft account is legitimate. I don’t even know if they can block servers in 1.12.2
None of these chat messages would have ever run through Mojang’s servers or infrastructure.
And Minecraft Server is developed by whom? Ah right Mojang. And they are doing as you suggested…
deleted by creator
I don’t agree with this policy but it’s their own hardware. I think Microsoft could take issue with the name but nothing more, really.
I remember Minecraft version 1.7.8, the last version before Microsoft bought Mojang and promptly fucked over the modding community for the first time, causing a mass uproar from those that had been playing since the beginning and setting a standard of what to be expected in the future.
And I think that standard has held true.
I had spent a year working on a shopify-esk cart frontend and Minecraft inventory integration. I was about three weeks away from being done and launching.
didn’t plan on making it pay2play, just make it easier to “buy” materials if you just wanted to build cool shit.
MS bought them and dropped the “no sales” bomb and all my efforts were trashed.
that’s the last day I played Minecraft.
