The collapse of the American empire would benefit almost every other country. I am starting to feel that since I live in America I should want to accelerate the collapse (or make sure one happens if things start to go back to business as usual). Can someone tell me why this is a bad idea so that I don’t make a mistake here.
consider that a collapse does not automatically mean things get better. fascists/military are very organised in the states, so in a collapse situation they will likely take power, without any barriers to do more atrocities. this is why accelerationism (focusing energy on collapse) is not a coherent strategy to achieve socialism. the only strategy is organising the working class
I would have thought a collapse would end more like a civil war due to the polarization of the country. I don’t think the military/corporations could outright seize power without the “justification” of democracy because I would think people would resist that when no longer bound by the laws of the previous government.
As zuzak said, it would be a massacre, not a civil war. The US military is just way more organised than any opposition to it. This is why we need to build workers power to undermine the fascists.
I don’t believe the working class in the u.s will organize to any adequate degree without being truly and undeniably oppressed.
So yes the fascists will likely take power post government collapse but it’s necessary
That is what it looks like to me from the outside as well. Sadly it seems similar in my country. The question though is, who will fight the new fascist powers and would it make more sense to organise in the countries that form opposition or should one try to resist from within these systems? With all the information and tools the state has it feels like fighting from outside would be more fruitful but tbh I am talking out of my ass and would love some guidance as to how to fight fascism now and in the coming years.
I think internal resistance will come naturally post crisis, the effort will be in taking advantage of the fervor and leading it in the right direction
Outside influence would be necessary in the form of support
I’m also talking out of my ass of course but these scenarios we speak about become more and more likely each passing day, some education would be great to know where to go next but I think most of us here are aware enough to see what’s happening in the here and now
We should still do the best we can to organize what we can. This will mitigate the worst effects, and therefore is the best chance for success. Working actively towards collapse is harmful, assuming organizing is not the primary activity.
We’re in agreement, my only stipulation would be that any organization doesn’t seek to delay what’s inevitable via electoralism and awareness activism
Improvements to material conditions / aid should come from us not the state, otherwise people will continue to be comfortable with the status quo
Sure, I suppose, but the point is that being doomerist about org work and revolution just pushes all of the responsibility and agency to the global south, while we passively enjoy the spoils of imperialism. It’s selfish, and is common to western leftists that just purity test.
Not sure where we disconnected here, I’m not doomerist about Org work. Organizing is great, just not for electoral solutions or peaceful protests.
We should focus on organizing in the form of food drives and other means of material support, especially now with how badly people are starting to struggle.
But at the same time now is the best time to agitate, and provoke the inevitable and self destructive rise of fascist adjacent political hegemony.
In just a few short years they have done more to move the needle in our favor and hamstring U.S geopolitical power than left adjacent electoral effort has in the last century.
Early you said “mitigate the worst effects” and I think that’s perfect. We cannot prevent it from happening, we simply have no say in the matter. We can only bring what’s on the way from the distant future to tomorrow’s doorstep, while building something people can turn to in the aftermath.
Sure, I don’t disagree. I don’t think we are disconnected, I just think it’s important to not deny the potential for revolution in the west.
Even if that potentially is nil
Revolutionary potential isn’t 0, the most effective course is to organize and build dual power. The Empire is crumbling without our accelerating that, what we need to press is a correct political line and build up strong mass movements into a coherent vanguard.
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Harmful to who? Americans? Ok? Even in the worst case scenario America would be so badly damaged by the civil war that they’d have no hope of ever rebuilding their hegemony and thats a net good for the rest of the world organising to lead to that collapse is good for all of humanity
This is just sacrificing the colonized peoples within the heart of the imperial core. The US Empire is headed to collapse, not civil war. I do agree that the US Empire collapsing is a positive, but we as communists should do our best to facilitate the creation of a socialist state via an indigenous and colonized-led vanguard made up of the organized working class. A socialist state replacing the empire is far better than whatever reactionary rump state would come from the aftermath of civil war.
I don’t think it’s ever necessary for minorities and communists to die
Bad faith
What do you think fascism means?
No that’s pretty much what you said.
If you meant something different maybe try different phrasing because as it stands your post reads as: “Nothing ever happens and people need to die for that to change.”
Well I apologize for phrasing it poorly.
Time has shown that suffrage is the great unifier, most here sugar coat this by saying that for people to be convinced “their material conditions must be right”.
Suffrage may include death, and death may be necessary in regards to those who are fascist. But death is not necessary for the masses to become radicalized. Just the cessation of all that provides comfort and escape from the consequences of u.s global hegemony.
We in the u.s (even left adjacent) love the dividends of imperialism, so far it’s only when domestic conditions worsen that people cry out. Abroad, millions every year have been snuffed out for decades to maintain our domestic comforts and not a thing has been done. The dividends must cease. The greatest driver of that cessation have been our own homegrown fascists.
If and when liberals take back power it will be back to brunch, as it was post 2020, and so many times before.
It has to get worse, it will regardless.
Why do you think liberals will take power again? Everything currently points to the slow but real death of liberalism in the US. Fascism is rising, people want it stopped, liberals are doing nothing. I don’t see liberalism surviving this.
This is just “nothing ever happens” but with more words.
Liberals will survive this
Not seeing it tbh. Liberals can only get cooked so much and they’re practically burnt at this point; any further cooking and they’ll just incinerate.
A collapse of the US will lead to a civil war fascists arent gauranteed to take power
Civil war between who and who? What organisation would lead the opposition to fascism?