Maybe they don’t want to. In some cultures it’s expected that you realize them giving an excuse with an easy solution means they just don’t feel like it. They’re not too dumb to see the solutions themselves.
Yeah, of course. Pretty sure this person knows this and is calling them out for being liars. Which, I’m all for. Just say “Nah, no thanks. Maybe next time.” Or something along those lines. I would rather you tell me my plans sound boring than lie to my face.
That’s why i don’t social well. So many weird rules – changing sometimes with the village – and all of them implicit and expecting a “normal” person that can catch the slight hints because they aren’t overwhelmed with doing the important bits right.
I don’t like to be required to 1)guess correctly that they’re lying to me and 2)indulge them in the lie. Especially since it’d also be considered rude of me to get 1) wrong.
Absolutely, just as they don’t like to be required to be impolite just so you understand. This is why communication is sometimes complicated. I wouldn’t call it a lie, but a truth transmitted differently than what you’re used to.
Not all lies are evil and manipulative but it’s a lie nonetheless.
The secret to good communication and the solution to issues like this is to stare the horse in the face and clarify what their expectations are, what’s expected of you, and what they mean.
It’s awkward as fuck the first few times you do it but it always helps clear the water.
It’s a lie as much as saying “good thanks” when someone asks you how you are. In my world, everyone understands “good thanks” is just a polite thing to say, not actually how I’m feeling at the moment. Sure, I guess you can call it that if you want, but I don’t believe it’s morally wrong the way most actual lies are.
I guess I just don’t understand why being untruthful is considered more rude than being honest. I find being untruthful much more rude. Being untruthful and expecting me to guess that that’s what’s happening is what’s making the exchange complicated, it could be quite simple if they told the truth.
I suppose it’s a way of saying something along the lines of “I’m not feeling like it but I appreciate you enough to try to not be hurtful.” This form of implicit communication works very well in close-knit communities, but once you start mixing people with different backgrounds, it becomes much more efficient to be direct and literal, even if communication loses a bit of its charm.
Yes, I am one of those who will always come with a solution, but at one point I realized the person I’m talking to simply doesn’t want to but is too polite to say it to my face. So I stop proposing any after suggesting one or two. I wouldn’t even be offended, it would make it a whole lot simpler if they just straight up say they don’t want to. But social interactions usually don’t follow the most efficient path, so we gotta learn to deal with it.
I really don’t see the point of hearing people complain about problems they don’t want me to fix.
If it’s an intimate partner my patience for this is much wider but if it isn’t I find the best course of action is just to say: “listen, I find it stressful and anxiety-inducing to hear about these problems all the time, and I’d prefer it if this isn’t a topic chat came up in conversations”
You have agency in setting boundaries, and listening to someone piss and loan constantly about shit isn’t where mine begin.
I just can’t. If it isn’t us versus the problem then it’s you versus the problem so keep me the fuck out of it.
Saying I can’t make it is one thing, but saying “I would love to, but who will water my plants?” is something very different when you know the neighbor who has done that before is available and you’re like “Just ask the neighbor, he doesn’t mind at all”. Just as an example. The excuses provided are sometimes very flimsy, so that’s why I would prefer them just saying “Thanks, but I just wanna stay home with my cats and a coco.” or something along those lines.
In a way saying you would love to but actually hating it is just a straight up lie, so I would prefer the truth over some excuse we both know is bullshit.
What I said was meant as an example of people not meaning what they say, and the roundabout route people take to express a genuine “I can’t” versus a fake “I can’t”
Would be much simpler if people were straightforward but social interactions ate complicated, apparently.
I’m usually on the other end of this. One of my favorite responses is “You seem to have a problem for every solution. “
Maybe they don’t want to. In some cultures it’s expected that you realize them giving an excuse with an easy solution means they just don’t feel like it. They’re not too dumb to see the solutions themselves.
Yeah, of course. Pretty sure this person knows this and is calling them out for being liars. Which, I’m all for. Just say “Nah, no thanks. Maybe next time.” Or something along those lines. I would rather you tell me my plans sound boring than lie to my face.
Yeah. The worst is when you’re at work and need them to do things and they pull these dumb excuses to try to get out of doing their job.
That’s why i don’t social well. So many weird rules – changing sometimes with the village – and all of them implicit and expecting a “normal” person that can catch the slight hints because they aren’t overwhelmed with doing the important bits right.
I don’t like to be required to 1)guess correctly that they’re lying to me and 2)indulge them in the lie. Especially since it’d also be considered rude of me to get 1) wrong.
Absolutely, just as they don’t like to be required to be impolite just so you understand. This is why communication is sometimes complicated. I wouldn’t call it a lie, but a truth transmitted differently than what you’re used to.
It’s a lie.
Not all lies are evil and manipulative but it’s a lie nonetheless.
The secret to good communication and the solution to issues like this is to stare the horse in the face and clarify what their expectations are, what’s expected of you, and what they mean.
It’s awkward as fuck the first few times you do it but it always helps clear the water.
It’s a lie as much as saying “good thanks” when someone asks you how you are. In my world, everyone understands “good thanks” is just a polite thing to say, not actually how I’m feeling at the moment. Sure, I guess you can call it that if you want, but I don’t believe it’s morally wrong the way most actual lies are.
I guess I just don’t understand why being untruthful is considered more rude than being honest. I find being untruthful much more rude. Being untruthful and expecting me to guess that that’s what’s happening is what’s making the exchange complicated, it could be quite simple if they told the truth.
Agreed. If you’re interested in better understanding the face-saving mores of global “honor cultures,” it’s a fairly interesting and relatively deep topic of study: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)
I suppose it’s a way of saying something along the lines of “I’m not feeling like it but I appreciate you enough to try to not be hurtful.” This form of implicit communication works very well in close-knit communities, but once you start mixing people with different backgrounds, it becomes much more efficient to be direct and literal, even if communication loses a bit of its charm.
Yes, I am one of those who will always come with a solution, but at one point I realized the person I’m talking to simply doesn’t want to but is too polite to say it to my face. So I stop proposing any after suggesting one or two. I wouldn’t even be offended, it would make it a whole lot simpler if they just straight up say they don’t want to. But social interactions usually don’t follow the most efficient path, so we gotta learn to deal with it.
I really don’t see the point of hearing people complain about problems they don’t want me to fix.
If it’s an intimate partner my patience for this is much wider but if it isn’t I find the best course of action is just to say: “listen, I find it stressful and anxiety-inducing to hear about these problems all the time, and I’d prefer it if this isn’t a topic chat came up in conversations”
You have agency in setting boundaries, and listening to someone piss and loan constantly about shit isn’t where mine begin.
I just can’t. If it isn’t us versus the problem then it’s you versus the problem so keep me the fuck out of it.
“I can’t make it” = “I don’t want to come”
“I can’t make it, but I’m really interested, and please do let me know when you’re doing it again!” = “I can’t make it”
Saying I can’t make it is one thing, but saying “I would love to, but who will water my plants?” is something very different when you know the neighbor who has done that before is available and you’re like “Just ask the neighbor, he doesn’t mind at all”. Just as an example. The excuses provided are sometimes very flimsy, so that’s why I would prefer them just saying “Thanks, but I just wanna stay home with my cats and a coco.” or something along those lines.
In a way saying you would love to but actually hating it is just a straight up lie, so I would prefer the truth over some excuse we both know is bullshit.
I’m agreeing with you.
What I said was meant as an example of people not meaning what they say, and the roundabout route people take to express a genuine “I can’t” versus a fake “I can’t”
Would be much simpler if people were straightforward but social interactions ate complicated, apparently.