Most of my girl friends have not seen the movie and I’m looking for some more female perspectives.

Possibly can’t get tag to work so just don’t read past here if you don’t want spoilers.

My Thoughts

I never read the comics, so this is all just how I feel about the movie as a standalone property, with the idea that they expect us to come in with at least some cultural knowledge of who Superman is.

I was really disappointed by the female characters overall. I’m not expecting a Superman movie to center or even really care about female empowerment, but this was bad.

Lois Lane is introduced while professionally berating Clark Kent’s work at work. I am prone to some sarcastic banter, but it seemed like a real jab and not actually funny. I don’t know that I was buying it as playful, and it seemed like they were setting it up to not be playful and like she actually took issue with his work. I understand wanting to keep the relationship a secret, but why is she with him if she thinks he’s actually bad at his job and at being Superman? Then the apartment scene where Clark is making his favorite food for their anniversary. I’m not sure if this is a joke about how men always get it wrong or not, but it made Lois out to seem ungrateful, not that I think she was, it just seemed like that’s how the scene was framed. I think Clark would’ve remembered her favorite, but that’s neither here nor there. Then she again berates his journalism and attacks his journalistic integrity after which she proceeded to essentially combatively interview her boyfriend which I don’t think is peak journalism standards either. Though I understand where she’s coming from with the “you made a decision unilaterally”, there’s no real acknowledgment from her of the fact he was doing good. If my partner tried to singlehandedly stop a war and save innocent lives I would start from a very different place. It makes it seem like she doesn’t support this decision at all even though by the end of the movie it’s shown to be the morally correct decision that other superheroes take up. Then he removes himself from a hostile situation and she does the (imho often male) fallback of acting like she was somehow the slighted party and falls into the “I knew this wouldn’t work” female trope which I hate. Sure, I could see this as the actions of a real person, and they’re allowed a lovers spat, but this makes them seem like just a bad couple. I’m not rooting for them or for her at this point. She then spends the movie relying on a male superhero to do the smart stuff, a male reporter to use his sources and a mostly male supporting cast. She then gets weirdly elitist about punk music, which if you followed the baby metal thing at all you already understand, but is upstaged by Superman’s real understanding of punk. She doesn’t even understand the music she was just lording superiority over him with. I’m sure it’s real punk to ask the president if you can stop innocent civilians from dying. Where was that punk spirit when Superman was actually being punk in the beginning? They randomly go to his childhood home even though it’s dark there and he gets healed by the sun. Maybe he asked to go there, but a weird choice though I understand it was maybe needed for his character development. Then of course at the end she says she loves him. No real character growth from her at all so I’m not sure what changed other than he was in danger so maybe trauma bonding.

Next up we have lex Luther’s girlfriend. What an all around weird character choice. I’ll leave out why they were even together in the first place, but she’s just a bad person. She was in a position of dating lex so obviously not great to start, and then she manipulates the male reporter in a weirdly non explicitly sexual harassment way. It was gross all around. She’s obviously not doing great emotionally and he is stringing her along and using her and she is withholding information about an evil war plan so some guy will hang out with her. Her name in his phone is of course about a physical imperfection which he hyper fixated on. I already saw that Seinfeld episode and it wasn’t funny then. Of course she uses her “vapid self absorbed” selfies from the forced audience perspective as a cover to get information, but it’s not because she’s secretly good, she’s just a conniving woman who turned as soon as she was slighted. Not a trope I like either.

Then there was “confident Latina”. She got to be evil this time. What a win for representation.

Then there was low cut top girl. Her whole job in the movie was to be in a revealing top. Thank god we had that jumping scene at the end. Really helped develop her character.

I have other thoughts about the movie, and I didn’t think it was terrible, but certainly not a cinematic masterpiece. I just wanted to chat about the female representation here because I feel like I’m not seeing a lot of people talk about it without hating on the movie for political reasons. For what it’s worth, apparently Lois lane is pretty close to the comic book version.

  • TransDesiTrekkie@startrek.website
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    2 days ago
    Tap for spoiler

    I definitely agree with you on the Superman movie not representing the female characters well. I feel like most superhero movies don’t do a good job of this to begin with.

    I felt like characters like Hawkgirl should have had more characterization or more to do. I felt like a majority of her scenes were screeching and hitting people with her weapon. Haven’t read comics with her character but she needs more backstory.

    Lois I had issues with but it’s mostly what you mentioned in your post.

    Overall the representation wasn’t great. I felt the overall theme of kindness was a nice message but it centered a lot on the male characters way too much.

    • Greercase@lemmus.orgOP
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      2 days ago

      I purposely didn’t mention hawk girl because I don’t feel like she was a character, much less a female character. She could’ve been replaced by an actual hawk with no powers or anything and the movie would’ve been identical.

      I feel like even the message of kindness was a little muddied by the lack of actual character development, but I promised myself I’d stick to issues with the characterization of women because the whole kindness part of this story was a whole different thing.

      Edited to add: Thank you for your comment. It’s nice to see I’m not the only one to take issue with it.

      • TransDesiTrekkie@startrek.website
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        2 days ago

        Agreed and she really didn’t feel like a character. Referring to hawk girl.

        Yeah the female characters were not done well at all. Which is disappointing but sadly I feel like an issue with many superhero films.

    • ZDL@lazysoci.al
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      2 days ago
      spoiler

      It seems that Hollywood goes out of its way to actively undermine female characters in superhero movies. This dates back to 1978 where Christopher Reeve gets huge amounts of money (by the standards of the time: $55 million) to be Superman, complete with the simpering “help me, Superman!” Lois Lane. But six years later, in 1984, Supergirl gets only $35 million and some of the worst writing in movie history. The subsequent (obvious!) failure is then used as an excuse to say “the public doesn’t want women superheroes”, an attitude that’s held to this day.

      And the pattern repeats over and over again. Off the top of my head in no particular order: Elektra and Black Widow, some of the best and most iconic female characters in comics (though both are drawn to the male gaze, natch) get turned lame in their solo films. Wonder Woman does well, despite the crap writing in the third act, so it is immediately undermined by the release of WW 1984 because “nobody wants a woman superhero”. (And do I even have to mention Catwoman?) Captain Marvel got a huge budget, but was then so badly marketed that people were whining about a “girl power wins all!” theme that wasn’t even in the film! Because we can’t have a powerful female lead. Only supporting female character superheroes.

      There have been four big-budget, female-led superhero movies in the past 15 years: Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman 1984, Captain Marvel, and Black Widow. Wonder Woman was good (minus the bad third act). Its follow-up was just god-awful with one of the creepiest sexual assault storylines played as “romantic” and a pretty active undermining of the lead character in the process. Captain Marvel was … an MCU film, so fairly generic story that was clearly written after the SFX sequences were designed (read: really kind of lacklustre), and was marketed in such a way as to be an active turn-off for the Marvel fan base. Black Widow was … again, it was an MCU film so the story was written after the SFX were designed and it showed again in a lacklustre story that despite this time being marketed properly still led to underperformance.

      In that same time frame there were about 25 big-budget superhero movies made with male leads. The male-led superhero movies mostly (aside from Captain Marvel) got larger budgets (Wonder Woman got about $100 million while Superman v. Batman, an absolute stinker of a film, got $200 million), more marketing, better marketing (coughCaptain Marvelcough), and in general a whole lot more studio support.

      So it’s utterly unsurprising that Yet Another Superman Movie got bad female representation. It’s par for the studio course.

      • TransDesiTrekkie@startrek.website
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        2 days ago
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        I agree with everything you said. I would like to say I hope there will be better representation but I feel like that won’t happen.

        And you’re right about the female characters being written for the male gaze.

        Wonder Woman 1984 was terrible and not even worth watching in my personal opinion.

        I don’t know how a Wonder Woman reboot would be like but I’m assuming it might suffer from the same issues.

  • foxglove (she/her)@lazysoci.alM
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    2 days ago

    Here is how the spoiler syntax works, if you wrote:

    ::: spoiler this is your hint text 
    this is what is hidden
    :::
    

    you would see:

    this is your hint text

    this is what is hidden

    • Greercase@lemmus.orgOP
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      2 days ago

      Oh, I had it correct then. Apparently my app does not support spoiler text. Good to know. Thank you for the information!

      • foxglove (she/her)@lazysoci.alM
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        2 days ago

        Hm, I think I see your mistakes, you wrote:

        My thoughts ...  want spoilers): ::: Spoilers I never read the comics, so this is all just how I feel about the movie as a standalone property, with the idea that they expect us to come in with at least some cultural knowledge of who Superman is.
        
        ...
        
        ... I’m not seeing a lot of people talk about it without hating on the movie for political reasons. For what it’s worth, apparently Lois lane is pretty close to the comic book version. :::
        

        There are three main mistakes:

        1. You wrote Spoilers but it should be spoiler
        2. You have to have both ::: on newlines of their own, you can’t start or end a block inline like that.
        3. You don’t have any hint text, you just start writing the text to be hidden on the same line that starts the spoiler block.

        It should be something more like:

        My thoughts ...  want spoilers): 
        
        ::: spoiler your preferred hint text
        I never read the comics, so this is all just how I feel about the movie as a standalone property, with the idea that they expect us to come in with at least some cultural knowledge of who Superman is.
        
        ...
        
        ... I’m not seeing a lot of people talk about it without hating on the movie for political reasons. For what it’s worth, apparently Lois lane is pretty close to the comic book version. 
        :::
        

        which would look like:

        My thoughts … want spoilers):

        your preferred hint text

        I never read the comics, so this is all just how I feel about the movie as a standalone property, with the idea that they expect us to come in with at least some cultural knowledge of who Superman is.

        … I’m not seeing a lot of people talk about it without hating on the movie for political reasons. For what it’s worth, apparently Lois lane is pretty close to the comic book version.

        • Greercase@lemmus.orgOP
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          2 days ago

          Your comments do not look to have spoilers to me, just fyi. I’m not sure if you meant to have them or not, but if so they’re not rendering correctly for me. I think I was able to get it though. Thank you for pointing that out.

          • foxglove (she/her)@lazysoci.alM
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            1 day ago

            what app are you using?

            here’s what my comments look like through the Lemmy web UI:

            If you click the spoiler hint text, the hidden text shows as expected:

            • Greercase@lemmus.orgOP
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              24 hours ago

              Similar to krejall below, it looks like plain text in the first comment. The next one is not rendering the spoiler either, it’s all plainly visible within the block quote section. I see other people’s spoilers are working on another app, so I’m not sure why yours aren’t, but since yours are rendering on the web it’s probably not a you issue.

      • Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        2 days ago

        Its not that your app doesn’t support spoiler tags, it just doesn’t support specifically the syntax Lemmy uses for spoilers. For some reason they decided to make their own instead if using literally any standard. The Lemmy syntax also doesn’t support in-line spoilers.

        I’m guessing your app was originally for reddit and branched out to support Lemmy?

  • Vanth@reddthat.com
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    2 days ago

    Haven’t watched it yet, commenting so I can find this post again after I have.