Cocaine "is no worse than whiskey" and is only illegal because it comes from Latin America, said Colombian President Gustavo Petro, whose nation is the world's biggest cocaine producer and exporter.
    • whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      6·
      55 minutes ago

      Then cops would loose those funds for the war on drug, cartels would be ruined and prisons empty! Is that the world you want to live in?!

  • Dzso@lemmy.world
    132·
    2 hours ago

    Pretty sure whiskey is pretty bad too. I’m not for prohibition, or drugs being illegal. But I’m not in favor of people using cocaine or drinking alcohol.

  • unalivejoy@lemm.eeEnglish
    1·
    54 minutes ago

    would be “sold like wine”

    They literally used to put cocaine in wine and called it Coca Wine. Coca-Cola removed the wine during the temperance movement and replaced it with caffeine. They removed the cocaine after the drink got popular with African-Americans and didn’t want to be associated with “coked out <censored>”

  • thedruid@lemmy.world
    423·
    5 hours ago

    Yeah. I lived through the 80s. Coke is BAD. Much worse than booze.

    Now weed. That’s a perfect good.

    • msprout@lemmy.world
      111·
      4 hours ago

      Am I nuts, or would legal coke just result in people switching to meth and other amphetamines?

      Idk. I have watched people discover Darknet markets for years now, and the most common line of thinking that I see whenever someone tries good cocaine for the first time is “I wish I could sustain this feeling for longer, and cheaper.” Everyone is always eventually disappointed by what cocaine can offer.

      • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        7·
        2 hours ago

        Yeah cocaine is like the most overrated drug ever. So overpriced and that shit lasts like 40 min maximum before you need to do more (and the diminishing returns are immediate).

        Not a fan of stimulants in general, but coke is definitely more often than not a status thing (in the US at least). You have to be rich to be able to afford that habit.

      • spooky2092@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        5·
        3 hours ago

        Am I nuts, or would legal coke just result in people switching to meth and other amphetamines?

        Probably! And the nice thing about meth is you can manufacture it in your own home!

        Fun facts about meth

        Seriously, don’t fucking try meth, and especially don’t try to make it in your own home. That shit will destroy you, and I say that as the child of a former meth head.

        My mother hung out with meth heads for a good portion of my childhood (the shit you don’t notice as a kid because it’s “normal”), and I was much worse off for it. In the last year I lived with her, I found a shake and bake lab in the basement, which freaked me the fuck out, cuz that’s how you burn your fucking house down and die or end up in the hospital with burns over a significant portion of your body

    • kandoh@reddthat.com
      8·
      3 hours ago

      I think it’s bad for a very specific type of person, I found it to be pretty underwhelming - like a strong cup of coffee that makes your face numb.

      • barneypiccolo@lemm.eeEnglish
        41·
        3 hours ago

        Back in my adventurous days, I tried lots of stuff, and I also found coke to be no big deal. It just didn’t do it for me. Neither did alcohol. Weed was my drug of choice, probably because I was a creative type, and weed inspired creativity more than any other substance.

        Everybody wants something different from their drug of choice.

        • aceshigh@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          2 hours ago

          Not op. Coke gave me a loooot of energy, tooo much energy to sit down but I couldn’t think. I just kind of jumped/moved around a lot. I’m usually very mellow. My drug of choice has always been weed too. I’m not a creative type but I love analyzing data while high. I can focus better and I have better judgment. If sober self can’t decide on something, my high self can. It’s weird.

          • barneypiccolo@lemm.eeEnglish
            11·
            2 hours ago

            Yeah, the energy boost seems to be the primary attraction of coke. Back then i was a runner and weightlifter, and always had plenty of energy pumping through me. I didn’t need that boost. I still don’t, which is why i don’t have an attraction to energy drinks either.

            I did understand that another effect of cocaine was a sense of supreme self-confidence, which i didn’t need either. Not that I’m that confident anyway (or wasn’t back then), but drug-induced self-confidence wasn’t something i valued. I took my confidence from my accomplishments, and my ability to i teract with people. I wasn’t the life of the party, but i always had friends and relationships that were satisfying.

            I suppose coke provides advantages i don’t need, while weed does. Alcohol has more of a numbing effect, which can be helpful if you are trying to supress bad stuff. I dont have that problem, either, or at least i have better ways of dealing with it.

  • lepinkainen@lemmy.world
    103·
    3 hours ago

    There’s cocaine (crack and the snortable kind), which are truly bad, especially Crack.

    From what I gather the powdered form can theoretically be used in moderation and isn’t psychologically addictive - at least not more so than tobacco.

    But then there’s Coca Leaves that the “natives” chew in Central America. You’d need to eat a whole-ass tree to get a significant high. You get more of a buzz from a strong cup of coffee or a can of red bull.

    Khat is a similar “drug” used in Saudi Arabia and the nearby regions as well as Somalia and Ethiopia. It always gives nice headlines when the customs confiscate ONE HUNDRED KILOS OF KHAT. Which is a weekend dose for a group of dudes, because they’re counting the whole-ass tree as “drugs” like it was concentrated like Fentanyl. It’s chewed socially for hours on end and not used for a quick high.

    • console.log(bathing_in_bismuth)@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      9·
      3 hours ago

      Cocaine is directly cardiotoxic, ie, kills or impairs cardiovascular cells and caffeine is not/doesn’t.

      Khat can cause vascular problems and damage the heart by effects cause by the former, but it isn’t directly toxic to cardiac cells. Big difference. I’d rather chew Khat leaves my entire life than coca leaves. Its not that cathinones are saint level healthy but atleast it doesn’t damage the heart at any amount like cocaine holding products do

  • kandoh@reddthat.com
    4·
    3 hours ago

    It would probably be sold at starbucks like coffee instead of like an alcohol.

    Because it is everywhere and in everything, a lot of people underestimate how powerful caffeine is. Our tolerance is very high for that drug, if you were to give it to a person who’d never had caffeine before, a single cup or coffee would have them wired for hours and hours.

  • Buffalox@lemmy.world
    334·
    4 hours ago

    Several things determine the danger of a drug. One of the most important is the “distance” from pleasure to lethal dose. In that regard alcohol is way less dangerous than kokain.

    Another risk is how easy you build dependency, and again you can easily enjoy a shared bottle of wine for dinner, or a beer during a break, and even get drunk in the weekend every weekend for years, all without building a dependency, you really have to abuse alcohol to become an alcoholic.

    Finally there’s the way you take it, where alcohol is consumed relatively slowly, and the uptake through the digestive system is also relatively slow. Kokain is taken quickly, to obtain a rush and a the high quickly, and the uptake is directly to the blood through mucosa, way quicker than if it had to go through the digestive system.
    This makes kokain (cocaine) way more likely to create a dependency, and is also why it’s generally considered more dangerous.

    So objectively by perfectly standard measures, kokain is way more dangerous than alcohol. Even without accounting for the extra dangers from kokain being illegal, like the addition of adulterants that are very dangerous.

    • pulsewidth@lemmy.world
      261·
      5 hours ago

      I have no strong opinion for/against legalizing cocaine, but your statements don’t seem to align with the literature I’ve read on the lethal dose of alcohol vs cocaine - which I’ve always seen list alcohol as worse.

      For example the chart below which measures the dose required for an active dose vs a lethal dose as a ratio - alcohol is worse.

      https___lemmy.blahaj.zone_pictrs_image_1b274597-56a0-43fa-93c3-08aa8da15c62

      Source listed here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drug_danger_and_dependence.svg

      • rumba@lemmy.zipEnglish
        42·
        3 hours ago

        The problem is, the chart’s too scientific / technical to properly convey real world data to common people for what we’re talking about; Not to mention look at the scale in that thing. About halfway through it goes from logarithmic back to non logarithmic.

        What were realistically trying to gauge is based on common purchasable amounts, what’s the difference between pleasure and LD50.

        You’re more likely to die from water toxicity than LD50 of beer.

        You’re more likely to die from suffocation on your own vomit than alcohol poisoning from a large bottle of spirits.

        A lot of places refuse to sell pure grain alcohol because it is dangerous.

        The chart has nicotine way up there too but you can hardly get enough of that to cause any damage directly.

        Cocaine’s safety is largely dependent upon delivery methods. Going up the nose is probably relatively safe in the short term.

        Another problem with the safety behind cocaine is it getting cut with more dangerous drugs. Which arguably legalizing would help with.

        I think the biggest problem is that alcohol is that it is such an effective depressant. People use it to cope instead of getting proper treatment, then go about their lives trying to operate heavy equipment and coexist with people that are functioning perfectly well.

        I know one person that had a heart attack and burned out from coke, But I know lots of people that have died from alcohol and paired driving walking and even one guy that just fell off a couch smashed his head on a coffee table and died. Then again confirmation bias I know maybe a dozen people that do coke.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
        45·
        4 hours ago

        That chart is simply wrong:

        https://www.libertyhouseclinic.co.uk/blog/substance-abuse/cocaine-or-alcohol-whats-worse/

        Due to its intense and immediate effects on the brain’s reward system, cocaine comes with a very high risk of addiction.

        This is a very well established fact in what research shows about dependency. There is absolutely NO WAY cocaine is only slightly higher than alcohol in dependency potential.
        It’s also one of the things that make smoking such a strong dependency.

        Also both LSD and Psilocybin seem dead wrong from what I know. Both are advised to ONLY take when you are monitored by a sober person. And that’s not because of how “innocent” they are.

        • thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world
          15·
          3 hours ago

          LSD and psilocybin are non-lethal and do not develop physical dependencies. Youd have to take and insane amount to die. You are advised to be watched if you are new to the drugs as they are HIGHLY mind altering. It’s not like alcohol or weed, your perception of things completely change. An experienced user is fine on a standard dose alone. But that’s not what LD-50 measures anyway, it deals with direct toxicity. Its not someone jumping through a window because they are tripping and now think they can fly.

          • Buffalox@lemmy.world
            13·
            3 hours ago

            OK but they are highly dangerous none the less. I know (2nd hand) of someone who became dependent using it only once!!
            Despite warnings not to use it unmonitored, and only once per year.

            Its not someone jumping through a window because they are tripping and now think they can fly.

            OK I get the point. 😋

    • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
      114·
      5 hours ago

      If you get drunk every weekend for years you are an alcoholic and you just don’t know it.

      The % of alcohol drinkers who are problematic drinkers is extremely high (about 25% of alcohol drinkers in Canada to give an example), people just don’t understand what is problematic drinking. 10% of the US population over 12 y.o. has dealt with alcoholism in the last year.

      • Lord Wiggle@lemmy.world
        101·
        5 hours ago

        It’s 15 drinks per week for men and 8 for women to be considered a heavy drinker. That’s 1 to 2 a day, or just all in the weekend. These are determined by the US CDC. Source

        Here in The Netherlands the amount of glasses is higher to be considered a problematic drinker (21 for men and 14 for women) but it is recommended to drink less then 1 glass per day to avoid alcohol related diseases. Source

        Because alcohol is so normalized people don’t see it as problematic as other substance abuse but if alcohol would have been invented recently it would have been listed as a class A drug. Alcohol is more toxic to the human body than cocain.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
        44·
        4 hours ago

        If you get drunk every weekend for years you are an alcoholic and you just don’t know it.

        Some people get drunk once a week and don’t drink otherwise.

        10% of the US population over 12 y.o. has dealt with alcoholism in the last year.

        I never claimed alcohol is without problems. I expect by dealt with, it includes family and friends coworkers and such. That it isn’t personal alcoholism.

        • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
          42·
          4 hours ago

          Nope, that’s personal alcoholism.

          https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-topics/alcohol-facts-and-statistics/alcohol-use-disorder-aud-united-states-age-groups-and-demographic-characteristics

          You can get drunk once a week and not drink otherwise, that’s still alcoholism, every time you drink you lose control of it.

          You sound like someone who is defending their own bad habit and that doesn’t want to admit that it’s alcoholism.

          • hector@sh.itjust.works
            1·
            1 hour ago

            Wow by this definition I’m pretty alcoholic because every time I drink, last time was 5 months ago, I got hella drunk.

            I mean, it’s just about the buzz for me

          • Buffalox@lemmy.world
            32·
            3 hours ago

            Nope, that’s personal alcoholism.

            I simply don’t believe that. But if they consider getting drunk once AUD, then that an absolutely useless piece of crap paper.

            You sound like someone who is defending their own bad habit

            That’s decidedly offensive, I drink on average the equivalent of 1 beer per day. I basically never get drunk, but it can happen, maybe a couple of times per year. I drink maybe 2 bottles of wine per month.
            So there you go, but you sound like one who likes to make idiotic personal comments.

            • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
              31·
              3 hours ago

              Guess I’ll spoon feed you

              https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sheets/understanding-alcohol-use-disorder

              In the past year, have you:

              -Had times when you ended up drinking more, or longer, than you intended?
              -More than once wanted to cut down or stop drinking, or tried to, but couldn’t?
              -Spent a lot of time drinking, being sick from drinking, or getting over other aftereffects?
              -Wanted a drink so badly you couldn’t think of anything else?
              -Found that drinking—or being sick from drinking—often interfered with taking care of your home or family? Or caused job troubles? Or school problems?
              -Continued to drink even though it was causing trouble with your family or friends?
              -Given up or cut back on activities you found important, interesting, or pleasurable so you could drink?
              -More than once gotten into situations while or after drinking that increased your chances of getting hurt (such as driving, swimming, using machinery, walking in a dangerous area, or unsafe sexual behavior)?
              -Continued to drink even though it was making you feel depressed or anxious or adding to another health problem? Or after having had an alcohol-related memory blackout?
              -Had to drink much more than you once did to get the effect you want? Or found that your usual number of drinks had much less effect than before?
              -Found that when the effects of alcohol were wearing off, you had withdrawal symptoms, such as trouble sleeping, shakiness, restlessness, nausea, sweating, a racing heart, dysphoria (feeling uneasy or unhappy), malaise (general sense of being unwell), feeling low, or a seizure? Or sensed things that were not there?

              -Any of these symptoms may be cause for concern. The more symptoms, the more urgent the need for change.
              • Buffalox@lemmy.world
                1·
                3 hours ago

                Thanks for the TLDR, I agree all of those are very bad, and strong indicators of alcoholism.
                But I’m very surprised that as many as 10% 12+ year experience that within a year? (12% men 8% women)
                But maybe that’s because I never had problems myself, when I was younger I hated if I could feel alcohol clouding my thoughts just the slightest. So I basically didn’t drink at all while in education. I probably still choose to be with people that don’t drink much, because I still absolutely prefer moderation.

                I know your numbers are American, but I think it’s probably about the same here. Again I’m honestly very surprised that so many people have such serious problems?

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
        3·
        6 hours ago

        The guideline here is 3 standard drinks per day, more than that and you may be an alcoholic.
        You can do the above within that limit.

        PS:
        I think you have a problem with your shift key, you may want to consider buying a new keyboard. it looks pretty stupid with the jumbled writing.

        • Jadey@feddit.nl
          81·
          5 hours ago

          That’s… insane. If you’re drinking 3 alcoholic drinks per day you’re not considered an alcoholic?? That seems like an extremely warped view of alcohol vs every other drug.

          • Buffalox@lemmy.world
            31·
            4 hours ago

            Please note this is a maximum! And it’s STANDARD alcoholic drinks:

            https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/what-standard-drink

            It’s not insane, it’s based on health impact, and probably the fact that 3 standard drinks don’t create dependency.
            1 standard drink is broken down in the body in about 1 hour.

            This is according to Danish health authorities, 3 standard drinks for men and 2 for women per day on average is the max, it’s recommended to not exceed that. But even at maller levels, the principles I stated in my first post remain the same.

        • barneypiccolo@lemm.eeEnglish
          21·
          3 hours ago

          That defines the daily drinker, but a person who only indulges occasionally, but always gets hammered on those occasions, has a serious problem with alcohol as well. That’s a person who can’t control it, and lack of control is a problem.

          • Buffalox@lemmy.world
            11·
            3 hours ago

            Yes I agree, you can get drunk some times without being an alcoholic, but if you get hammered drunk so you don’t know what you’re doing, then you obviously have a problem.
            I never understood why some people find it funny, when they get so drunk they can’t remember anything the day after???

            • barneypiccolo@lemm.eeEnglish
              21·
              3 hours ago

              I work a lot of college events for my job, and recently had two girls in front of me, and one said to the other “Dude, I’m gonna get you so blackout drunk this weekend!”

              I did a lot of drinking in college, too, but i never wanted to get blackout drunk, and I’m a guy. Who would take care of me, make sure i was safe? The others around me who are also drinking hard? It’s a thousand times more dangerous for a girl.

  • Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pubEnglish
    6·
    5 hours ago

    Ehhhhhhhhhh, coke is a weird one.

    I’m generally coherent on a lot of drugs and I retain my awareness. Coke? Nope! I’ll eventually black out and lose any sense of myself on it.

    It’s fun, but damn if you won’t wake up somewhere and have no idea wtf is going on.

    On alcohol, if I get too drunk, I’ll just fall asleep.

    • GraniteM@lemmy.world
      3·
      1 hour ago

      You may think you love your wife and kids, but you don’t love them nearly as much as you’re going to love cocaine!

    • jimmy90@lemmy.world
      233·
      7 hours ago

      legalise it, tax it, take the money from gangsters, fund free healthcare

      same with heroin, nicotine, alcohol, and everything else

      • frunch@lemmy.world
        111·
        5 hours ago

        I like the whole fund free healthcare idea but realistically just about all the $ coming in from drug sales would go directly into Leon’s pocket or whoever tf

        • pulido@lemmings.world
          11·
          3 hours ago

          I hate defeatists like you and the impact you have on the world.

          I wish you people would get off of your hands and do something instead of just telling other people to sit on theirs.

          Blocked.

          • frunch@lemmy.world
            1·
            3 hours ago

            Funny thing is, i agree that free healthcare absolutely should be a right. I have voted and will continue to vote for any candidates that support it. I’m just disenfranchised at this point. I will continue to vote, but I’ve seen little/no good come of it.

  • jordanlund@lemmy.world
    637·
    11 hours ago

    Way easier to die from cocaine…

    “The lethal dose of cocaine is 82.5 milligrams per kilogram (mg/kg).”

    https://www.addictionresource.net/lethal-doses/cocaine/

    “Blood alcohol concentrations (BAC) of 0.31% to 0.45% are considered life-threatening. The lethal dose of alcohol is about 5 to 8 grams per kilogram of body weight (g/kg).”

    https://www.addictionresource.net/lethal-doses/alcohol/

    Google tells me 1 shot of whiskey is about 14g of pure alcohol, so a fatal dose for someone weighing 81kg (180 pounds) would be 29 to 46 shots, or 43.5 to 69 ounces. (Nice!)

    A standard 750ml liquor bottle is 25.3 ounces.