• GHiLA@sh.itjust.works
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    1 hour ago

    I’m a southerner. Take what I’m about to tell you as close to the grain of the problem as possible, because it is.

    Here’s the thing. 9 times out of 10, a Southern man is going to meet a lone trans or gay person, have a pleasant experience talking to them and go about their day, they even make friends with the person, spend years talking to them, send gifts, become family members, etc.

    But you know what?

    Behind closed doors, it’s “fuck those trannies”, “not in my schools”, etc. My mom does it, her sister does it, my dad did it. It’s hypocrisy at an extreme level while also ignoring it at an extreme level.

    “Well I have gay friends… I’m not homowhatzit”

    THEY’RE TEACHING WHAT!?

    “Double Standard” might as well be the tagline for the entire South. They’ll protect their religion and the expectations put on them by their parents and social norms on a general level across the board, while still shaking hands and eating cake with their lgbtq+ buddies.

    Just remember any southerner is one thought from God away from stabbing you in the back at all times, because no matter how close you get to them, even as a family member, that book and the expectations behind it means more, was beat into them more, every day since they were born until you met them.

  • Etterra@lemmy.world
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    1 hour ago

    Fear, control, indoctrination, tribalism, double standards, poor mortal character, hypocrisy, and because it ‘makes them feel icky’ and so they have to be loud and obvious about it so that they’re community sides with them and doesn’t suspect that they’re (allegedly) total closet cases.

  • lepinkainen@lemmy.world
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    3 hours ago

    Hating gays isn’t cool anymore and will get backlash even from conservatives.

    Trans people are the new gays in this sense

    • throbbing_banjo@lemmy.world
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      1 hour ago

      I would love for you to be right. If you’re in the US, though, voter data doesn’t seem to support that.

      It would be amazing to live in a country where half the populace agreed that my son has the right to simply exist in peace but I don’t think we do anymore.

    • RandomVideos@programming.dev
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      30 minutes ago

      Homophobia is illegal in Romania

      That doesnt stop every single person i know that isnt from the capital be openly homophobic

    • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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      57 minutes ago

      That’s a good point. And political movements like trans exclusionary LGB are there to piggy back off of.

  • gerryflap@feddit.nl
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    48 minutes ago

    They’re conservative. The whole name is based on the principle that they want to maintain the old way rather than progress. I think it stems from fear of a changing world. The old world with the old rules provided safety, it was understandable, the rules were clear, and the rules didn’t hurt them. Now some people are “attacking” their world, their rules, everything that offers them safety and understanding. So they feel attacked.

    It’s the same thing, but with another subject every time. Whether it is women getting rights, which threatens their safe world with clear gender roles. Or gay people, who threaten the simple rules like “boys love girls”, “in order to be successful, get a job, marry, and get kids”. Or non-white people getting rights. What if they vote for things that “we” don’t want? What if “they” ruin the world that “we” got so used to.

    Trans and especially non-binary people are just the next group in line that threatens their simple world. When men are people born as men and women are people born as women, it’s way easier to force people into the traditional roles. The old rules still work, “boy marries girl, gets kids”. And when they speak out about their "concerns* they are (rightfully) called out for it. So they become defensive and start doing whatever they’re doing now.

  • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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    58 minutes ago

    Because of tropes like https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CreepyCrossdresser from movies like Silence of the Lambs, Dressed to Kill, and Psycho. It puts the idea of men dressing like women as a means of tricking women to attack them into the collective unconscious.

    Because Trump spent $19 million on transphobic ads during football games in battleground states. Because they need a Boogeyman to rile up their base.

    It doesn’t have to make sense. You might as well be asking how can the KKK hate people of color or how can Nazis hate Jewish people.

  • JaggedRobotPubes@lemmy.world
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    3 hours ago

    Nazis do this dumb thing where they go “hey that small and therefore relatively defenseless group (badassness of individuals aside) is the cause of all our problems, let’s kill them to solve everything!”

    Surprisingly, it never works.

    So they do it again with somebody else, and somebody else, and somebody else, until everybody on earth is killed by nazis or somebody stops them.

    As for why anybody is dumb enough to fall for it in the first place…it’s anybody’s guess.

    • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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      55 minutes ago

      Surprisingly, it never works.

      The Holocaust happened and Trump got elected. If those two things don’t count as examples of this hateful strategy working then idk what does.

  • slumlordthanatos@lemmy.world
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    6 hours ago

    As someone who grew up in a conservative household in a deep red state, I think that part of it is that a lot of people are letting Lizard Brain dictate their response to transgender people.

    Let me give you a personal example. A while back, I went to a social dance, and there was a trans woman there. Before the dance starts proper, the couple that runs it will teach a dance lesson, and we rotate partners while that’s going on. Eventually, I was rotated into being her partner. For some background, she was obviously early on in her transition; she still looked like a dude in a dress, she didn’t quite have the appearance down yet. But she gets huge props for not only having the bravery to go out as herself, but doing it in fucking Arkansas.

    So I rotate over to her, and it dawns on me that she’s trans. In my head, Lizard Brain immediately starts screaming. “WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?! THIS PERSON IS OBVIOUSLY A DUDE IN A DRESS, HE MUST BE UP TO SOMETHING IF HE’S DRESSING AS SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HE IS! RABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLE”

    Keep in mind, where I grew up, you just didn’t see trans people, and even now, it still tickles that primal part of my brain that was trained to be uncomfortable around people who aren’t white and straight.

    The difference between me and many of the people I grew up around is that I recognize that it’s happening and try to tone Lizard Brain out when it starts screaming. A lot of other people listen to it and don’t care that the person that it’s screaming about is exactly that: a person.

    • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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      50 minutes ago

      I remember reading that when people have racist reactions like what you’re describing it’s like a different part of their brain triggers and then their frontal lobe (for higher logic) sort of suppresses it. I really wish I could remember more about this but I definitely remember learning about this in psychology. Something like when a baby sees someone of a skin color they haven’t seen before they get nervous, but when they’re older different parts shut it down. The memory is very fuzzy.

    • untorquer@lemmy.world
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      4 hours ago

      This is so real. It takes a LOT of effort and time to train this out. If someone isn’t willing to go through that then it makes sense that it would fester.

      I had lots of times when i was younger learning about queer culture when i got mad at things. Especially after an overly polite and patient person took the time and effort to explain something to me. Unlearning hate is painful. Learning to liberate yourself is painful.

      I think a lot of people feel that pain and decide to run from it and double down on the hate because that way they don’t need to learn and change or pry open their mind to an alternative.

      Then there’s the whole fear of conflicting with your own community as a factor.

  • andros_rex@lemmy.world
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    5 hours ago

    Uneducated people in rural areas struggle very much with understanding their experiences of others, and have very strange ideas about how the world works. I told my grandmother I wanted to move to Chicago - she’s convinced I’m going to get gang murdered. (She would be horrified if I told her about wandering around LA on foot)

    The idea that there are options other than cisgender heterosexual people is threatening to their understanding of their world. Many have not thought about their gender or sexuality; it’s assumed that you’ll get married to the opposite sex, get gender appropriate jobs, have kids, and go to church on Sunday. That’s what life is in Anadarko or Siloam Springs. Many also struggle with unaddressed trauma from the opioid/fent crisis, or military service - so they think the appropriate response to anguish about your body should just be to just cope with it.

    Many of these men are secretly bisexual. Many, many, many heterosexually married men seek out sexual encounters with gay men on the side. They would never want to be in a relationship with a man or someone they perceived as a strange, mentally defective man - for many of them that would also assault their understandings of a relationship as more of a property thing. They feel guilty about porn usage, especially the Christian ones, but externalize it as hatred.

    The woman are miserable and are committed to making everyone else miserable as well. You gain power in those communities by policing others, especially young women. They are threatened by the idea that they weren’t locked into compulsive heterosexuality and performative femininity. There was a possibility that they could have graduated college, or not had children.

    They get the program though. They’re proper Puritans. If life is suffering then the only joy to be had is in watching other people. And what better target than those who are defying our most basic sociological roles? These are the same people who host gender reveal parties - it matters to them. So it must matter to everyone else.

    That’s my guess as a trans man at least, obviously I’m biased.

  • rational_lib@lemmy.world
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    5 hours ago

    They’re a convenient political target because it makes insecure men not want to be associated with them. Believe it or not, a similar thing happened last time Republicans won the popular vote in 2004 - back then the issue was gay marriage. Bush went hard on opposing that and it helped him win.

  • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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    4 hours ago

    Gender and separation of humans based on those lines have been a thing for longer than humans even called themselves “humans”, and transpeople threaten that. So it triggers a flight or fight reflex in people who aren’t used to the concept.

    I find when people know me for awhile and THEN find out I’m trans, their reaction is less “I’m scared”, and more “That’s neat”, but if people find out I’m trans before they get to know me, they will be hostile the whole time.

  • Wanderer@lemm.ee
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    2 hours ago

    I’ll try actually answer the question and get hated for it I’m sure rather than circle jerking something to the top. But I think it goes like this.

    Imagine you had a ball and a cube. Then everyone agrees the ball is a ball and a cube is a cube. Been like this as long as anyone remembers.

    Then suddenly someone comes around and says one of those cubes is special and is actually a ball. Then everyone agrees that person is mental. Years go by and more people start saying that some cubes are balls and you feel like you are losing you mind. You know what a ball is, everyone knows what a ball is! How can anyone say a cube is a ball. People attack you for it. People say you are wrong that you are hateful, horrible but you know! Surely everyone knows this is a joke.

    They started painting cubes to look like balls and everyone acts like they are balls. But you know they aren’t balls.

    You are happy to group them on different measures. Sure some balls and some cubes are red, some are yellow. Both balls and cubes can be spiky, sure balls are more often spiky but there is nothing wrong with a spiky cube. Each to there own. Most cubes are smooth but some balls are smooth. That’s fine.

    There are a million and one ways to group these shapes. But at the end of the day a cube is a cube and a ball is a ball. Anything else is madness and you’re not standing for it. You can group them however you want, choose whatever is the most important, fine is doesn’t matter. But don’t say something that is obviously a cube is a ball and what is obviously a ball a cube. You can’t change the definition of a cube to be what that shapes feels it is, that’s meaningless. It defeats the purpose of the word. Sure make a new word but don’t use that word.

    • .Donuts@lemmy.world
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      1 hour ago

      But at the end of the day a cube is a cube and a ball is a ball. Anything else is madness and you’re not standing for it.

      This is the crux of where you are wrong. There’s more than just cubes and balls, but because of society, stigma and restrictive laws in some countries, everyone has to try and fit themselves into a cube or a ball, even though they might be egg shaped.

  • antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    9 hours ago

    Religious people control their kids through the village support system of their church. Some kids are learning things at public school which are not in line with those beliefs. This is scary for parents. Parents don’t want to lose their children, and can’t imagine loving them as somebody else. Case in point Elon And his trans daughter Vivian.

    I’m quite liberal and atheist, but the prospect of a transitioning child is troubling to me. While I’d have no problem supporting a gay child, I feel very strongly about body acceptance, and I reject body dysmorphia. Transitioning to another gender is to me, not too different from a woman who wants augmentation surgeries or a man who is taking steroids. That said I could care less what anybody else does. I think cosmetic surgery and steroids should be legal. I don’t think the government needs to be involved. It’s a decision to discuss with a child, doctor, and parent.

    I guess what I’m saying is, I can empathize with the transphobia of conservatives. Where we differ is in how we deal with that fear. They want the government to make society conform to their beliefs. I think it’s up to the individual parent to grow the love in their heart to accept and love whatever their child decides to be.

    • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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      6 hours ago

      I feel very strongly about body acceptance, and I reject body dysmorphia.

      Drag wants to take a crack at explaining this.

      The mind is a machine. We have free will, but that free will has limits. If you try to hold your breath until you pass out, you’ll probably fail. Your subconscious will demand air and you’ll give in. The human jaw is capable of producing enough force to bite off a finger. But you can’t chew off your own finger unless you’re on drugs. Your brain won’t let you. We can do a lot of things with our brains, but some are hard, and under normal circumstances some are impossible.

      Accepting your body when you’re five pounds heavier than you’d like is something our brains can do without that much trouble. Accepting your body when you’re a hundred pounds heavier than you’d like is hard. Some people never manage to summon enough willpower to do it. Accepting your body when you’re the wrong sex is, for most people, impossible. It doesn’t work. The brain has limits, and those limits kick in.

    • maevyn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      7 hours ago

      I just want to say as a trans person, first off, your views are very valid. I think it’s actually great that despite your misgivings you respect the principle of bodily autonomy, which I very much agree with myself. Totally think this is a good take.

      I also wanted to give my 2 cents on the experience itself. You liken transition to body modification, and there definitely are parallels. But in my experience, the two are distinct. Like, I have both dysmorphia at times, and dysphoria at others. I’m not 100% happy with my body after transition, but now it’s like, less because I look like a guy and more because I look like a girl but, maybe not with the ideal body I wanted. When that first hit me, my wife told me “welcome to womanhood” and I laughed a little (and cried a little) because it was true, I’d never known a woman who didn’t struggle with her body image.

      I also just, can’t really explain how much my mental health has improved. I had terrible anxiety when I entered puberty, and it wasn’t about gender or anything (that I was aware of at the time, anyways). It was almost just like my brain started malfunctioning. I got quieter, I overthought everything, I self medicated with weed and alcohol, became kind of aimless. Then I turned it around, got my career going, got married, worked on myself. I still drank to take the edge off and be able to socialize, but put on a face at parties and figured out how to push through the anxiety. I tried therapy, medication, meditation, you name it, but it never really got too much better, I just got better at working around it.

      I had kinda given up on there being an “answer”. I just figured, you know, this is life for me. Not bad, just hard. And then this thing happened, where a lot of stuff I had been pushing down all came up at once. And I transitioned.

      I really, really didn’t think it would “solve” things. Like, I thought it felt right, that it would make things better. But I was trying not to get my hopes up. And at first it didn’t, like hormones didn’t really immediately fix everything. It was more subtle. It was like… like slowly waking up from a long and tiring nightmare. The kind you don’t remember much of, you just keep that vague sense of unease for a while.

      It’s been a year and a half. I can go to parties and not drink now, and just, relax. Have fun. Socialize. I can make friends and talk to strangers. I still have anxiety, I still have problems, but like, my brain just works better. I don’t know how else to describe it. I make connections I never did before, understand people and empathize with them more.

      I feel happy. Not in a like, “this is new and exciting” kind of way, but a sort of deep contentedness. Peace.

      I don’t think this is a silver bullet. It doesn’t solve all your problems, and it sure as hell won’t solve anything for a cis person. It just helps to take a constant burden out of the way. And for me, even if there had been 0 physical changes, I would 100% take estrogen just for the mental effects it has had alone. It’s been the best mental healthcare I have ever received.

      • antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        6 hours ago

        I appreciate your story and I’m really happy for you. I think if I was child free I would just say hell yes I support everybody to be themselves. But being a parent makes me more protective and cautious and concerned and if I’m being honest I kind of hate that change in myself. It’s so easy for me to say I support autonomy but I already know that it won’t be when my child is asserting their own autonomy. I know that parents don’t have control, only influence, but it’s hard for me to walk that fine line.

    • antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      8 hours ago

      I feel the need to add to my feelings on this, because I don’t like admitting that I am somewhat transphobic. I strongly believe in bodily autonomy and I think 18 is too old to grant it. For tattoos, piercings, health decisions and anything else relating to oneself, I think autonomy should be granted as soon as it is claimed. In some cases of teenage pregnancy, the conception itself is a declaration of autonomy, unless the parents gave permission, which would be weird. I’m not sure a minimum age can be set. I think teenagers should be able to legally divorce (reverse adoption?) their own parents too. I recognize that this is also an extreme view that would frighten most parents. It frightens me too. But I kinda feel like picking out specific issues like trans rights or abortion is ignoring an overarching issue of parental/societal control. Not too long ago it was fairly common for husbands to view their wives as property. Many if not most parents seem to view their children as property. Maybe someday that too will change. It’s not as though 18 is some magical age of self actualization. Some people will be dependent on their parents well past that age if not forever, and some people are ready to face the world alone at 15, maybe younger.