oh yeah sure. expanding overtime rights, over the counter birth control, getting rid of junk fees, clarifying the vice presidents role in certifying elections as ministerial, funding infrastructure while simultaneously stimulating energy efficiency and renewables, forcing airlines to refund canceled flights, fighting for loan forgiveness extensively as well as to put a stop to non compete clauses. nothing for the working class though as this does not hit specific things I find important so lets just go worse in all possible ways because thats a solid plan.
Courts struck down half of that, only two of those things benefit the working class, and you included something Biden explicitly did not accomplish as an achievement.
I know copium is a hell of a drug and you liberals will be overdosing within a year, but do take queues from California and hide your drug habit.
the courts striking down is exactly why its better to make progress and yes he did still have to work with congress. If in 4 years a dem gets in then 8 years folks will complain that there will be no progress from today but will put a blind eye to having caught back up from the next 4 years of regression. A good example is the biden approved x permit for drilling on lands. lands open to drilling under trump. lands can be protected or taken out of protection but once out the president can’t arbitrailly not allow permits.
The president actually can. It’s an executive decision.
Biden also opened up lands that Trump didn’t, so you really can’t use that as an excuse for your far right neoliberal hack.
Its disengenous. They can and the response would be lawsuits because drilling is allowed and they are playing favorites with one particular company. They can if they have some sort of grounds but doing so for no reason is the type of abuse of power trump does. Allowing more drilling actually came out of the climate reduction act and was a compromise to get the good parts passed, because, you guessed it. Republicans.
I wish we could take your comment and put it in a bot every time someone says both sides are the same, not for the working class, etc.
Nobody says they’re the same. People do say they’re both bad to varying degrees, and are immediately hit in the face with some doofus accusing them of saying they’re the same, that happens a lot.
You haven’t been around long enough if you think no one says theyre the same. They absolutely do.
Show me an example then
But what have the Romans done for us?
Forgot to put the portion where Reps try and block every single fucking thing that Dems try to accomplish.
Wanna know why abortion wasn’t enshrined into law when the Dems had the majority? Because they didn’t have a filibuster proof super majority for the handful of weeks they had all the power.
We got the ACA instead.
They had the super majority at the start of that term. They couldn’t have pushed something as complicated as the ACA through, but they could have moved on something small like affirming Roe. Besides, the Republicans always find a way to ram through legislation without a super majority (and I’d suspect we’re about to see them abolish it entirely), but the Democrats never do.
For example, when the Senate parliamentarian tells the Democrats that they can’t pass a $15 minimum wage through a simple majority, the Democrats give up. When the parliamentarian tells the Republicans they can’t do something, they ignore them, and one time, they just flat our fired the guy.
You can argue about whether the Republicans are being unethical or underhanded, but at the end of the day, they achieve things, and the Democrats don’t. The Democrats will tell you that they need 60 votes to do anything and that the parliamentarian won’t allow them to pass non-budgetary items without one, but Senate filibuster rules can be changed, and the Parliamentarian has no real authority. Playing by the rules while your opponent cheats isn’t noble, it’s stupid.
The super majority at the start was those 4 weeks when Dems had any potential. When you get a time machine, go back and tell them to do Roe instead. Don’t listen when they absolutely disbelieve Roe is at risk. We all thought Roe was safe back then.
No, we didn’t. No one in the last 50 years thought roe was safe. Every single dem presidential candidate in that time campaigned on codifying roe.
I mean, the fact that they only had any potential with the super majority is the problem. In 2001, the Senate Republicans just fired parliamentarian Robert Dove because they didn’t like the answers he was giving them. In 2010, Senate Democrats realized they only had four weeks to get their agenda through unimpeded, passed a single bill, and spent the rest of Obama’s presidency comprising with obstructionists. In 2021, Biden let immigration reform and a $15 minimum wage get killed by the parliamentarian despite his party begging him to ignore her. Now, in 2025, a literal fascist will be in the White House and his allies will control both houses of Congress; do you really think he’s going to care if someone in an advisory position gives a non-binding ruling saying he’s not allowed to do something? The fact that Democrats can’t get anything done without 60 Senate seats isn’t an excuse, it’s embarrassing.
There’s also just a massive element of the Democrats no longer functioning as a coherent political unit. It wouldn’t help in an instance needing a filibuster-proof majority, but since being a Democrat is mostly negatively defined as “We’re not the Republicans” these days, it has grown to encompass a range of views that prevents them from having a cohesive platform backed by all members in the way the GOP largely operates today.
Yes, Republican obstructionism is a major element in the dysfunction of our government at the moment, but even before you run into that, you have a party that embraces the Joe Manchins, Kyrsten Sinemas and Joe Liebermanns of US politics, while also having your Bernie Sanders and AOCs. Even before you encounter the obstructionist tendencies of Republicans, you have Democrats who don’t fall in line that can hold the party platform hostage, and no meaningful mechanisms to force them to do so.
The Democratic Party really needs to start defining itself positively, rather than the current “We’re not the other guy, so at least we aren’t so bad” stance, and presenting a unified front in the face of Republican obstinance. There should be a time a place for intellectual debate, but the Democratic status quo not only makes them look incompetent when they can’t hold members to task for failing to support major elements of the party platform (see Manchin’s stranglehold over Biden’s agenda that left quite a bit dead on arrival prior to Republican efforts), it also demotivates would-be voters.
Also forget the portion where dems do not use their powers unless it is needed for Israel.
Yup the whole Republicans ignore the rules and Democrats don’t thing hurts extra hard when you watch Democrats throw the rules out the window to support a genocide.
Democrats very much followed the rules when supporting Israel’s settler-colonial genocide, that’s been a part of the rules since the settler-colonial project started.
No they didn’t. There are specific laws forbidding military aid to war criminals.
Yes, and Israel has always been guilty of war crimes, genocide, and settler-colonialism. That’s its purpose.
Yes but until now there’s been a veneer of legal occupation. That is gone and the Democrats doubled down after it was gone. After most people could clearly see the crimes being committed.
I’m not buying this anymore. Dems could do the same if they had balls. Enough of this when they go low we go high bs.
Here, have an actual teacher - who goes to insane lengths to find shit (including the fact that many Dems were quite conservative) - explain:
republicans: we will shit on the working class
tankies: omg, dems so bad
Reps: we will crap on the working class
Dems: we will crap on the working class ✨
Leftists: The Dems don’t actually help the working class, both parties derive their power and legitimacy from their donors, wealthy Capitalists. They function as businesses that sell policy to the highest bidder. We need a revolution in order for the people to have a real say.
Liberals: Shut up, tankie!
“no, I don’t want slow progress, I’d rather have no progress at all”
“what do you mean voting is just a tiny part of making the world a better place, it is completely useless”
“what? ofc I support the working class! I called someone on lemmy a lib for saying trump bad yesterday”
The Democrats are not “slow progress,” nor are Republicans “no progress.” Both are decay, decline, dying Capitalism in a crumbling Empire. There is no progress to be had with either of them. Voting isn’t a tiny part of making the world a better place, it’s less than the bare minimum required to enact positive change.
If you understand that Capitalism must decay, and that the US is the world’s worst Empire, then you understand that the only way to progress is revolution. Pretending that Leftists “prefer Trump” just showcases that you don’t understand the core problem. That your profile banner is an Anarchist flag yet you argue against revolution means leftism is cosplay for you.
how has slow progress worked for you in the last hundred years
how has slow progress worked for you in the last hundred years
I mean… growing up I jacked off to the jcpenny catalog lingerie ads. And now…
6 weeks paid holiday, compensation days for longer work week, protection from unfair dismissal, free health care, 3 months maternity/1 month paternity leave…
Not saying that there’s nothing left to do, but over the last 100 years things have definitely gotten better.
The real risk is forgetting that these things were hard won and that if you give people a chance they can easily be lost again.
Most of these were won by leftists fighting on the streets and in the factories, not by centrists.
Worse, for every rare win the centrists get, the republicans seem to get 3. We’re the laughingstock of the world on so many data points and theres no interest in centrists dems or republicans to make it better.
Communists don’t have a monopoly on “the left”. There are socialist liberals who also fought for these things, not just communists.
There was a time when “centrists” were largely Republican. Many of them have jumped ship due to Trumpism, so they are now part of the very mixed coalition that is the Democratic Party. Problem is we were so focused on fighting each other that we forgot to fight the fascist fucks on the other side of the aisle.
Progress has not only slowed down but gotten worse. Workers today are working longer hours for less pay then in a very long time all while their paycheck goes less then it has, meanwhile Kamala promised to make things even worse.
Company that installs Overton windows said to be leaving then on moving dolly, left mumbling something about install it yourself morons.
You work within the system until you can get the change you want. By throwing your hands up you…ugh why even bother.
are you getting the change you want by working within the system?
Between giving hot stone mssages to far right zionists, kicking anti-fascist student protestors in the face, finishing my biography on saint Joe Biden, calling la migra on my neigbors, polishing my glock, fracking in my back yard, and pissing on progressives even though I support all their policies, I barely have time to lick stamps to send my campaign donations to the dnc. I’d like to think I’m still a model democrat though.
If you can’t get necessary change by working within the system then you must work outside it and replace it.
100% agree with you. But I would counter and say changing it from the outside/replacing it is a last resort as it will lead to complete instability while things get sorted - this is exactly what Putin wants.
The US is the world’s main exporter of death and destruction on the Global South, instability in the US would do the majority of the world a massive favor. Putin would probably rejoice, sure, but so would all the nations in the Global South.
That’s a great take if you completely ignore that laws are written by congress, and in the last 30 years Democrats have only had both chambers and the executive, by a slim margin for 2 years and a wide margin for 2 years. In those 2 years of a wide margin (Obama) they passed the ACA, which was watered down by republicans because it was the only way to get it to pass because they still didn’t have a super majority.
The Democrats have utterly failed to appeal to workers, and as such fail to bring out the votes. The DNC is a business that sells policy to wealthy Capitalists, it doesn’t represent the working class.
The Democrats have utterly failed to appeal to workers, and as such fail to bring out the votes. The DNC is a business that sells policy to wealthy Capitalists, it doesn’t represent the working class.
Huh? Did you actually follow the election at all. Trump’s solution for the working class was “I’ll get you better jobs with more pay” and when asked for specific examples, he couldn’t provide anything of substance. But he was fond of talking about how he hated unions and paying overtime during his speeches and talking about killing the ACA. VERY pro worker.
On the flip side Kamala was offering up cutting taxes on the middle class, lowering food prices, expanding the ACA, assistance to first time home buyers, and more assistance around childcare.
I don’t know exactly what you think “appeals to workers” but she checked literally every box beyond promising “more pay” without any semblance of a way to do so. Is your idea of “appealing to workers”: you just need to lie more?
You’re talking about Kamala “means testing” Harris, who paraded around with Liz Cheney, and comparing it to Trump who ran a far-right populist campaign running on ideas like “no tax on tips.” Harris failed to run on popular programs like Medicare for All, and Trump did his usual awful schtick while exploiting the fact that Harris had no solid policy.
Neither party represents the workers, they both sell policy to wealthy Capitalists, and that’s it.
Everything you listed helps the ~10% of Americans that are still middle class, not the working class. Except lowering food prices which we know she’s not even attempt since it would require backstabbing her campaign financiers.
No working class person has delusions of owning a home at this point, that’s a pipe dream only the deranged and rich could ever hope for. The ACA is a failure that most people can’t afford, we need healthcare reform in totality. Everything you listed sounds like giving money to the rich so peasants can afford the Rich’s services.
you just need to lie more?
You might be on to something here
I mean, it’s what obama did, and he had a pretty successful series of campaigns. I dunno, gay marriage, legal weed, and the ACA were all of what he did, pretty much, outside of drone striking a shit ton of people and deporting a fuck ton of people, so I think you can pretty much just lie and give out the most sparing, minor of all handouts, and then pretty much people will jump on board.
That’s a very true statement. I expect reams of downvotes.
Probably not, since we are on Lemmy.ml and not Lemmy.world, though I’m sure a few will be upset.
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Ha ha #bothSides . still?!?
yes… both sides fuck us over for the benefit of theirs ruling/owner class.
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There is not both sides. It is one party with different factions
Republicans are garbager and yet…
Now make one with an elephant in the middle to put next to this one. It will be equally trite.
False. The one with the elephant in the middle accomplishes things. Terrible things. I’ll take do-nothing over do-wrong
Yeah it’s a promise of $20 that never comes vs a punch to the face
GOP gives their base red meat. This is because it is compatible with their donors’ interests. This contrasts to Dems, for whom delivering for their base runs counter to their donors’ interests.
What is deliverrd by the GOP is marginalization, of course, but this is still a more direct and materiap response than what the Dems do, which is just PR.
Yeah it will be, because that’s how the corporate-run political duopoly works.
It’s a big club and you ain’t in it [1][2]I believe that would be equally accurate, yes. The republicans have been pretty responsive to their base’s social desires, mostly with like, white, uneducated, evangelical christian psychos, but they haven’t really passed any policy which tangibly makes their life better, and there’s only so much you can do to address the fundamental cognitive dissonance. If cost of living goes up and not down, which it in all likelihood will if trump rocks the boat too much, then they’re gonna have to resort to the same playbook that democrats do in order to play off that failure.
The only real difference there is that the republican voter base is more primed to believe those excuses just sort of as a matter of their media ecosystem and position in the political sphere. But you’ll see them still resort to hand-wringing over how those pesky elitist democrats just blocked their real policy, and then when they lose, about how next time, they’ll really do something to help out the people, they just weren’t able to get it all off the ground because we only had four years and the economy’s gonna get worse before it gets better and the democratic admin is just gonna be coasting on our improvements and so on and so on. If you talk to republicans, especially the older, not explicitly fascist ones, the post-reagan ones, you’ll notice this pretty similar sort of rhetoric.
Those low information, low turnout, suburbanite, implicitly biased “I’m not racist but” or “racism doesn’t mean anything anymore” republicans make up a pretty big chunk of their coalition. I would say even they probably make up a majority, and the terminally online turbochud fascist extremists are the minority that’s growing at a somewhat alarming rate.
This is why you don’t base your political opinions on memes
If this is shitposting, I don’t understand what is shitposting anymore.
“Every nation gets the government it deserves.”
What or whom exactly is this post for ?
It’s leftist agitprop showcasing the failures of the DNC for disaffected liberals.
Dont these idiot workers understand that the stock market is at all time highs so their stock portfolios are doing great? We all have stock portfolios, right?
I think it’s for people who are angry that the world isn’t getting better by itself while they scroll through memes.
And thanks to non voters you will never have a chance to get a better candidate since now free elections in america are a thing of the past. Congrats. Because you do your “both sides” garbage you destroyed any hope of improvement.
American elections were never free, and the fact that the Harris campaign failed to bring out voters is the fault of the Democrats, not the voters.
Either way, revolution was always required to actually get meaningful change.
I was about to argue how you were wrong and then saw the lemmy.ml lmao A russian bootlicker talking about free elections is too ironic for me to take serious
Russian Bootlicker? In what way? Are you just trying to invent ways to not actually deal with Leftist analysis? Go for it, try to argue against a Leftist.
I am an actual leftist. Lemmy.ml are tankies who kiss the asses of fascists like Putin and Xi
I think you need to take a step back and think for a moment. Putin and Xi exist in entirely different economic systems, Putin in a Neoliberal Capitalist economy and Xi in a Socialist Market Economy, calling both “fascist” just displays ignorance towards what makes up fascism. I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds by Dr. Michael Parenti.
Secondly, calling yourself “an actual Leftist” and using the word “tankie” without irony is goofy. Marxism is a real branch of Leftism, Anarchism doesn’t have a monopoly on Leftist politics. If you want to learn more about Marxism, I made an introductory reading list on Marxism-Leninism. It even has Blackshirts and Reds in section 1.
Thirdly, the idea that Marxists “kiss the ass” of Xi and Putin is silly. Going against the western narrative doesn’t mean worshipping anything going against it.
Really, all this reads as you trying to avoid having to tackle with Leftist ideas and stay in the bubble of liberalism.
I don’t understand this.
Voting is easy and a basic civic duty we are taught about in middle school, in pretty much every state, you have weeks to do it, can drop off in mail boxes, ballot boxes, in person, early, etc.
Presidential elections only happen every four years, and there are going to be very very few people who would not be aware that it’s happening well in advance.
Not voting is just plain lazy, that’s all. It’s a responsibility that takes very little effort to do, there are multiple avenues provided to do it and you only have to do it two or three times a decade.
No one is forcing me to take a shower every morning or brush my teeth, or go to work everyday, but I do it because it’s important, and my overall health and life is affected by it.
Voting is very deliberately made highly inconvenient depending on zip code, and additionally the parties are not different enough for many people to care. You get these people to vote by making it more convenient and quick, and promising popular policies like Medicare for All.
How come rural, under educated voters are able to make it out every election without problems.
I’m not going to defend people failing to do a simple task once every four years.
You have four years to prepare for the event. And there are only two states that don’t offer early voting, and those states allow absentee ballots for people who won’t be home, have disabilities, or would otherwise struggle to vote in person. We have more resources available than ever, it’s easier than ever to vote, generally, thanks to widespread mail in voting adoption (which was demonstrated by a 6% higher turnout in 2020)
I am sure you can find excuses for people here and there who were really truly unable, but 90 million eligible voters failed to do their civic duty. Even assuming every single homeless person was unable to vote, which is unlikely, that’s still 88.5 million that didn’t show up, and let’s take EVERY single person with a disability and assume they somehow couldn’t vote, that’s still 45 million people that didn’t show up. And let’s take EVERY single person under the poverty and assume they were unable to vote, then let’s assume there is absolutely zero overlap, you still have 10+ million people who didn’t show up, and that’s assuming not a single of the above people voted.
Failing to prepare for something doesn’t excuse you from the failure of doing it.
I hope you understand you reek of privledge with the way you talk. Rural voters have an easier time of voting, typically, because of the lower population density. In fact, urban areas are often intentionally short-staffed.
At the end of the day, people vote if they feel like it makes a difference. The fact of the matter is that it largely doesn’t outside of swing states, and even in swing states the differences between the two candidates was not as high as it was in 2020, when Biden at least pretended to be progressive.
You have to take a real, systemic analysis and stop blaming individuals for broader societal problems.
I don’t give a shit if I reek of anything, I give a shit about the millions of people who fail to fulfil their civic duties.
I’m blaming individuals for individually not doing their individual part.
Deciding not to vote because it ‘feels’ a certain way is just stupid, I don’t care.
I’ll add, rural people have no transit systems or infrastructure, they have to have running and maintained cars, and the ability to drive them, which would disproportionately affect disabled people and others that would have difficulty getting to physical polls.
You can continue to blame the oppressed for the system that oppresses them, and all you’ll have is personal frustration and an inability to fix anything.
When you come across a problem, you must be careful to accurately identify the levers that can be pulled and the mechanisms behind the moving parts. The fact is, voter turnout is tied to ease of access to vote, and the chance for real change to come from voting. Currently, voting is difficult for millions of people, and voting doesn’t enact change. You’ve failed to identify the source of the problem, and are blaming those downstream from the source, and as such will fail to get what you want.
Voting isn’t a civic duty when your votes are meaningless.
Its easy to vote when you have the privilege (time) do it.
Many people work two or three jobs to make ends meet. Many others have kids in addition to wasting time commuting to work. In my situation, if I relied on public transport to get to work I’d waste nearly 5 additional hours per day for a total of 14 hours. That’s 88% (14/16 hours) of my waking hours (assuming 8 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period) dedicated to doing something that will primarily benefit a large corporation. If I had kids and had to cook a full meal + get them ready for anything I’d have zero hours to take care of anything for myself.
Not voting is just plain lazy
The people struggling to make end meet are working harder than you can even imagine, considering this is your perspective.
It’s hard to vote when you have a several week window, can do it from your house, and 4 years to prepare? I just don’t see it.
To add: about 9 million people work more than one job in the us.
Assuming none of the people who work multiple jobs, whats with the other 80 million people?
This isn’t some small marginalized population of people, it’s almost 40 percent of the eligible voting population.
Y’all can downvote all you want, but don’t act like people have no agency in their lives and don’t act like their decisions aren’t theirs.
about 9 million people work more than one job in the us.
13 million, source: https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/06/about-thirteen-million-united-states-workers-have-more-than-one-job.html
To your point though, that still doesn’t add up to the nearly 89 million people who didn’t vote, source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-many-people-didn-t-vote-in-the-2024-election/ar-AA1uaH9n - I retract my statement as it’s just a fraction of the overall picture. I’m curious what other driving factors exist. I’m not going to call it lazyness without evidence though. I need concrete studies/evidence, not just conjecture.
Not voting is just plain lazy, that’s all.
You know I’d actually like to push back on this. The people who elected trump were white, uneducated, low information voters. I don’t think people who aren’t interested in politics, in the political system, who don’t care to look into the ideas that shape the economy, shape the policy, beyond a couple weeks every four years, I don’t think those people should be voting. I think it should be their choice, but I think their choice should probably be to not vote, because in that case, their votes are going to do damage. You could see thinkpieces floating all around before the election of people talking about how higher levels of voter turnout across the board, contrary to classical thought, would help republicans this time around, rather than democrats, mostly hinging on those same kinds of low-information voters, part of the younger generation which have aged into it. Your classic 22 year old joe rogan bro voters that like free weed, but don’t understand abortion rights because they’re not women, and think trump will give them some sort of economic opportunity.
Me personally, I would rather those probably just admit that they have no idea what the hell is going on, and choose not to vote.
I don’t know what you’re talking about. There will be a 2026 mid term and a 2028 general elections. You should expect them too. Especially if you think Trump might cancel them. Loudly expecting him to cancel them normalizes it and mutes any protest. So they will happen, or we will be in the streets demanding them.
Oh my god how I wish to be so naive. There wont be a free election in 2028. I highly doubt even the mid terms will happen.
Any protest will be brutally knocked down and americans dont have the protest culture to keep at it. Especially not with more than half the voters, all Trump voters and all non voters, accepting the fascism to come.
So nope. 0 chance for a free election in 2028. Maybe you get the chance to decide which Trump or Trump ally you will have next lol
Then build it. You have 4 years.
I am.not american. Just watching the shit show from afar. But I doubt anyone can build it. More than half of the adult population chose this. I just hope the US burns down quick enough not to pull too many of us down with it.
Then stop trying to normalize fascism in my country.
Its going to happen. Closing your eyes and being naive wont change it. Its important to be aware it will happen so people who can leave will leave.
No, it’s not. You cannot tell 336 million people they don’t get an election. That’s what we need to normalize and organize around. You cannot occupy 336 million people without their cooperation. I will not accept your defeatist attitude of just letting them have whatever they want.
There will be a 2026 mid term and a 2028 general elections
oh sweet summer child.
Americans threw it all away for a man with a public history of failure, rape, cheating, lying, narcissism and incestuous ideology. If there’s a real election in 2026 and Americans learn from their mistake, things might eventually be okay. Unfortunately, it seems America is the land of the ignorant who equate higher education with brainwashing. I’m not sure how to fix stupid, the country seems lost.
I’ll be voting, but I have zero hopes my fellow americans will have learned anything. I’m also not sure, with lying and cheating republicans in place, we’ll even have a fair election.
So you’re choosing to normalize it. Great. Trump thanks you for dropping out and making it easier for him.
So you’re choosing to normalize it
Don’t get it twisted, I specifically said “I’ll be voting”. I will be voting and inspiring others to vote, but I’m not deluding myself into thinking it will do anything by the time we get there.
Trump thanks you for dropping out and making it easier for him.
your imagination runs wild. I’m not making anything easier for trump.
There is no “normalizing” it. Americans choose to destroy their democracy and they did. So no more free elections for the next couple decades at least.
That’s bullshit. We have one right up until we don’t. Last I checked it was a vote that got us here and until we’ve been in the streets and have lost a positive assertion of voting again we have not lost democracy.
You wont have another vote. Who is to stop Trump? The supreme court? lmao The minority of Democrats in house and senate? They cant.
There will not be a free election again for decades. Either Trump if he makes it will 2026 or Vance will stop it. The supreme court will let them.
We will have another vote. I don’t think you’re getting the idea here. It’s us. Fuck SCOTUS, fuck the Democrats. It’s us.
I know that there is always more that could be done, but did the infrastructure bill, the chips bill, and the inflation reduction act count toward helping the middle class?
Perhaps you can shake your fist angrily. I assume a sternly worded letter or phone call would be too much effort.
