I’ll never understand how difficult people make things by not being forthright and making things awkward:
“Is it okay if I bring my boyfriend?”
“…I think there’s been a misunderstanding. I had asked you on a hike as a fun first date, I didn’t realize you had a boyfriend. I’m going to bow out of this, but I can give you the hike info if you want to take him.” And then you laugh about the misunderstanding the next work day, and keep things at work from then on. No reason for it to get bad. Flirting is still fun! Just leave it at that without expecting anything more.
Don’t flirt with someone single if you’re not interested, don’t flirt with someone in a relationship if you’re not interesting in breaking it.
It’s just that simple.
Being polite and friendly to a person isn’t flirting. Sexless losers who never leave their basement always think a girl being friendly to them is flirting with them.
I wonder if you have a different definition of flirting, because the end goal of flirting is not necessarily to gain a relationship.
Unless you make it extremely clear from the get go that it’s just for fun then flirting with someone you’re not interested in is risky and even if it was made clear, there’s always a risk something will develop on one side.
It’s never this cut and dry in real life though. People often misinterpret others’ actions as flirting when they’re just being friendly. For some people, a woman smiling and making eye contact is flirting. It’s not on the person who’s being friendly “to make it extremely clear from the get go” that they aren’t interested in going out with you. It was on anon to ask this woman if she was single if he wanted to ask her out
The anon countered this argument with the assertion that co-workers agreed about the level of flirting (which means it was likely pretty obvious). Also lamenting about doing things alone is pretty easy to interpret as a sign/hint about being single.
It was the way anon handled break off that was awkward. Though it’s understandable that his feelings were hurt in that moment, and it may have been difficult to respond thoughtfully.
Idk, unless you make it extremely clear from the get go that you’re treating an event as a date you shouldn’t be mad if the other person has a partner especially if you never asked if they were single.
Life is risky.
yeah, flirting for fun can be … fun, but obviously OOP wasn’t te only one to read more into that. There’s a line between “platonic” flirting and getting someone’s hopes up.
Miscomunications can happen. She probably wasn’t aware that what she meant as friendly behviour was comming across as serious flirting to other people. No need to instantly suspect malice, she was obviously shocked and shamed by the result, so much so that she quit her job, which seems rather extreme to me.
I just find it hard to agree with because at no point did anon ask if she was single. He assumed it because he thought she was flirting. He even went so far to ask her on a date.
Ah, sorry, I thought you were single and that this would be a fun first date. My mistake, and enjoy the hike w/your boyfriend.
Nothing wrong with that. Mistakes happen, and the ability to clarify them and work well together afterwards is more important than not making mistakes.
Apparently anon is incapable of this though lol.
Or at least, hasn’t learned to do out yet.
Not necessarily but very commonly it is. Especially if you keep at it. It’s just something to keep in mind if you do it knowingly. She might’ve not realized.
Some people think flirting means they want more.
“Why can’t men understand hints?”
I’ve been there. Used to work with a girl, had a huge crush on her and I assumed she did me as well. She used to hang out, we’d get lunch every day, she would sing songs at her desk and substitute my name, flirting was obvious to me and everyone in the place assumed we were in a relationship. Until I finally had the courage to ask her out.
She was completely surprised.
Oh well, live and learn. Eventually found my wife and here we are almost 20 years later with kids. Eventually the right one will click.
Theres a lot to unpack here, but really OP made a mistake by asking to go hiking. Thats a terrible first date idea and also isnt inherently date-y. Likely he was just missreading her kindness as flirting, but if he had asked her to dinner or coffee brunch it would’ve made his intentions more clear to her.
Not that it really matters because its fake and gay anyways.
Well, I read like a hundred times that going for a coffee is an incredibly boring date idea and doing some activity you both actually enjoy is much better.
For what it’s worth, I hate the idea of a coffee / dinner date. Seems incredibly forced and like some kind of an interview. Though, I’m not dating and not interested in doing it, so I might be completely out of touch.
Coffee is a great first date if you met on a dating app. It’s a public location where you can both meet in person for the first time and chat but neither of you is forced to stay if things aren’t shaping up how you expected.
But if you already know each other then yeah, coffee isn’t much of a date.
Yeah, I guess it does makes sense if you’re meeting with a complete stranger. Personally I would still prefer something like a walk in the park but this probably just comes down to personal preference.
My first dates generally start with coffee then turn into a walk in the park if things are going well. A coffee shop is also just a convient place to meet. But I guess that is also going to depend on city layout.
The dutchie in me got confused for a second when u said coffee shop, but hey going to get some weed together can be a fun first date if it’s your thing.
It’s a safety thing too. Most girls want a public place for a first date. Especially from an app. A park is romantic and nice but offers little in safety depending on the size, location and popularity of the area. So, grab a coffee first. Then suggest a walk around if you want to get a little closer. No need to stay at the coffee house but a park for a first meet can sounds like a frightening proposal for a single woman.
Ok, the park I’m imagining is definitely a safe, public space. I meant something like a city park, not a national park or something, maybe that wasn’t clear.
If children go there unattended, I think it’s probably okay. Other than all the frigging children.
Coffee is boring if you are boring. That’s why some people are against it.
There is also an art to keeping it short. No need to sit at a table for 5 hours. After an hour you should know if you want to go do something together.
With my current partner, we met “just” for a coffee at 11:30am. We got home at 7pm after said coffee, a walk, some drinks, dinner, and having had an awesome time.
Not to say I don’t agree with you - keeping at least the initial intention short and sweet gives an easy way out in case either person isn’t enjoying the date.
Pretty much. Interesting people go for coffee, then something right after.
My first few dates with my now-wife was a park, then hot dogs, then another park, then back at her place.
Coffee is just the initial vibe check.
Even if you want to do something more interesting than coffee, find something better than “let’s go together to a remote area where no one will hear you scream or find your body” or even just “you’ll be stuck the whole afternoon with no way out if it turns out you don’t like me.” If you want to do something like that, I would recommend a climbing gym or something like that instead. It’s public and it’s easy to leave, two things you should make sure to include in a first date.
I always do nature trails and I carry pepper spray, and take a trail I know well so I can get us back to the parking lot quickly if I wanna pack it up sooner. Most trails in my area are well populated to boot.
I absolutely wouldn’t go on a remote hiking trail with a stranger. That’s just asking for a bad time.
I might be boring, but I would hate a climbing gym first date. It’s public and easy to leave, but requires certain clothing, involves weird contortions and angles, and I’d get red and sweaty af. I’m not especially femme (so no makeup problems), but that’s still a recipe for self consciousness for me.
Obviously if you float it beforehand and they accept, that’s great (and they’re probably more what you’re looking for), I would just not suggest that as an extension of a coffee date. I could see it going either way from your comment, so I just wanted to note it.
Well it was just the first idea close to hiking that popped in my mind (that fit the public and easy to leave criterion). I personally wouldn’t do that since a) I’m a couch potato and b) I’m happily married (and haven’t really dated before that).
It’s also one of those self-selection things though :)
Good points, I agree.
In my opinion dating is basically an interview. Though for a first date i would choose some light activity so if conversation doesn’t naturally come it wouldn’t be awkward.
I agree, coffee dates suck. I usually do a nature walk for a 1st date because it’s free and gives us something to do.
Why is hiking a bad first date? Its free and walking side by side makes it easier to talk casually + it makes you appear like someone who actually leaves the house.
Not sure if this was above posters point, but this was pointed out to me once…
As a guy who typically dates girls, you’re asking a woman to go out in the woods alone with you to a place that likely has no cell service and no way to contact anyone and is typically for the most part completely isolated from civilization.
Maybe not for a brand new Tinder date but a hike with someone you’ve known otherwise for a while sounds fine. A hike doesn’t have to be way out in the sticks either where you need to rub sticks to light a fire. Plus I think it makes for a great filter, if she is willing to be alone with you like that, chances are she’s into you as more than just friends.
I agree, theres plenty of nice nature paths sandwiched between suburban sprawl, and they most certainly get cell service.
I think we need a new word for online dating versus dating folks you meet in your community. Maybe edating or something. I’d personally argue online dating is inherently dangerous for at least one party, regardless of circumstance, so whether its a hike in the woods or meeting at a coffee shop makes no difference.
Online dating is equivalent to blind dating essentially.
A walk in the park is a lot better, yeah.
The whole purpose of
buying the boatgoing on a hike in the first place was to get the ladies nice andtipsy top sidealone, so we can take them to a nice comfortable placebelow deck, and you know, they can’t refuse…because of the implication.Are these women in danger?
Was that a =3 reference??? Christ I haven’t heard that in like a decade.
It’s pretty common… Some people with low self esteem flirt for attention. It’s fucked, but it’s sad for both parties, really.
4chan in a nutshell
not a damn thing gay about it. maybe you posted to the wrong thread.
No, they got the right thread. This is a 4chanism, posted in a thread, on a lemmy forum about 4chan posts.
Prob fake but imagine spending a lot of time trying to form a friendship with someone and in the end you find they were only trying to fuck the entire time.
Incels always be fuckzoning every “female” they meet. It’s why their celibacy is involuntary.
fake, anon had a girl interested in him
gay, he almost had a three way
Came here to say, it sounds like they wanted a third, and failing to note the possibility is one of the more immature features of the greentext.
Most people just aren’t into that
I’m sorry for most people, but at the same time, most are more aware its a thing than anon has demonstrated.
Why would you feel sorry for people not being into it?
Oh no, there’s so much more to be sorry for those people for besides just what they miss out on. I’m actually more prone to being sorry they are so vocal about it.
Someone just being into something doesn’t make me feel like they’re missing out. Not everyone likes the same things.
Again, I don’t care what they are or are not missing out on. I care what they ruin for others, intentionally or otherwise. I’m sad for the rest of us that these sad-sacks are so certain of their majority and righteousness.
Love this community for keeping up with the 4chan spirit no matter what.
There’s always a comment under every post explaining how it’s fake and anon is gay.
Completely possible anon was a creep and she felt uncomfortable saying no.
If everyone else thought she was flirting then I think it makes the situation a bit more complicated
Indeed. But some people come across like that. I had a friend who never realised they were seeming super flirty all the time when really they were just being nice to people.
Also 4chan so easily a lie.
If it was accidentally (she didn’t realize) then could be just an unfortunate misunderstanding.
Everyone keeps saying she was flirting, but I really think she was just trying to make a friend, but everyone saw ‘flirting’ because of their genders. The post literally says she has no friends.
This is why women tend to be wary of friendships with guys; any time we do, we get come on to because any amount of friendly interaction is perceived as flirting, or ditched because the guy we thought we were trying to befriend finds out we have a boyfriend.
Shit, if I were this girl who struggled to make friends, thought I had found one finally, but get friend-dumped when they find out they can’t fuck me (for the millionth time in her life, I’m sure), I’d probably quit, too.
She could’ve been trying to make a friend and it was all an unfortunate misunderstanding. Both having been a bit more forward about things could’ve helped.
I understand what you’re saying, but there’s also a huge stigma around being a girl and leading with the fact that you have an SO. Like most things socially for women, it feels like you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t when trying to befriend men most of the time.
I’ve personally tried both methods throughout my life, and have lost every friendship with men I’ve tried to have because of it. It gets pretty lonely, since the other women in my immediate community aren’t really interested in my gaming hobbies. I end up a lot like this girl on the post, with no friends of either gender.
I was thinking more when he’s asking about going hiking. At that point it would probably be good for both, either side to make sure what the expectations are.
Of course if you start off right away with “I HAVE A BOYFRIEND” then that won’t be looked at very favourably lol
Tbh, it sounds like she did try her best to clarify by mentioning her boyfriend before they actually went to the destination. I could easily see that she perceived her friend asking her to go hiking, so she excitedly agreed. Got home, realized what that would look like, and thought she might bring it up in a way that wouldn’t look like the “I have a boyfriend, FYI” trope
Tbh, it sounds like she did try her best to clarify by mentioning her boyfriend before they actually went to the destination.
She mentioned it pretty much last minute on the day they were supposed to go. We don’t know the full circumstances and I get that you’re trying to see it in the best light but the situation was far from optimal. Best moment to ask would’ve been before agreeing, so whether purposefully or just because she didn’t realize, that’s where her error happened. Not to say that the guy couldn’t have clarified it was a date.
In what world do you think someone is a creep and then you agree on going on a hike of all things with them, an activity that is basically guaranteed to have you alone with them at some point?
She didn’t go that’s the point. He could have had her backed into a cupboard when he asked for all we know.
At this point you’re just inventing ways for it to fit into your impression
Exactly. We only have his side of it and I’m just suggesting ways it could make sense answering the question put to me.
For all we know she might’ve been stringing him along. Story doesn’t say either way.
Yes
I don’t get why anon believes he is being used. It was a miscommunication, sure. Did he spend money on her before this? Using him as a ride to go on a hike? Hikes being extremely cheap and only needing to pay parking, usually.
Hikes being extremely cheap and only needing to pay parking, usually.
Laughs in Finnish everymans rights.
You have to pay for hiking? Or you hike on trails where the only access is from a parking area that you have to pay for?
Seems ridiculous to me.
It depends. Generally speaking they’re free. I was told by a ranger at the Great Smokey Mountains National Park that they don’t enforce (or at least specifically weren’t that day) parking passes and only give people courtesy notices to pay for parking. They were only ticketing people parking in places that weren’t actual parking spots or blocking areas.
Generally speaking I think you can expect to pay about $5 on average, some places maybe more (like if it’s a trail in a city, then parking is usually more costly). But in tons of places it’s just totally free.
My point is that anon thinking he was being used was hilarious because it’s extraordinarily cheap.
I get the point about it being a cheap activity in general, but aside from parking, who do pay the money to? Is there like a ticket-booth at the start of some trail which you couldn’t reasonably get to walking from other places?
Some places use an honesty system where you drop money into a box and get a thing to put on your dash. Other places have a gate house or booth where you can pay.
You aren’t forbidden from walking in. It’s usually just not a practical choice. Usually trails are in very remote places so you’d probably walk further than the length of the trail to get to it lol. Other places which are in more urban environments (like a trail through a city or places like Stone Mountain Georgia) might have easy places to park and walk in but it’s technically private property. And again, still usually just extra walking. For things like bike trails this is more viable probably.
In Finland there is no trespassing on private property. Well, not if it’s not gated or your yard or something. And you can’t gate large pieces of land like that, so…
I understand that the nature is very different, for instance we have no mountains. So for me, I’m just thinking “just use another road”, but some places just have one road going there, I guess. Here, I’ll show my point:
I’ve highlighted the parks in yellow. Kansallispuisto = national park, luonnonpuisto = “nature park” (which sounds silly, I hear it). My point is that the trails in those areas start from a few places, and going to the national park, there’s several parkin places you can go to, and you can get to the areas from so many different places. And this isn’t a national park that requires any park rangers. I don’t even know if we have any, but if we do, they’re in the national parks which are up North in Lapland. This is a very small one. Just a big marsh with a lake in the center, essentially.
So you couldn’t really set up a gatehouse or a booth anywhere there.
We have plenty of places like that here as well. The places where you have to pay to park are generally very popular and the fee is largely used to reduce how many go (i.e. reduce destruction) and fund maintenance and cleanup efforts.
In my area, the only places that charge are state and national parks, and not even all of them. I have dozens of hiking trails within a few miles of me without any parking fees, and there’s a massive federally owned swath of land nearby also with no parking fees.
If you go to the handful of extremely popular parks, you’ll pay a fee (and you can get an inexpensive yearly pass if you want), but if you go to literally anywhere else (dozens if not hundreds within 50 miles or so), there’s no fee. So Grand Canyon or Yellowstone = fee, local falls or BLM land (federally owned, but not a “national park”) are free.
I just don’t understand how you can “fee” Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon. Those places are huge.
You have a booth on every road?
I don’t believe there’s a single place like that in Finland, what with our everymans rights
Everyman’s rights are the right of every person to use nature regardless of who owns or controls the land. The use of nature within the limits set under the everyman’s rights therefore does not require the permission of the landowner and using the rights does not cost anything.
In America we don’t have any sort of “right to roam” law, sadly. If you want to feel even more smug and mock my country, wait until you watch this: https://youtu.be/yBrtWXBhuuo
In the west there is a grid pattern of land like a checker board. Like this:
X O X O O X ? X X ? X O O X O XThe Xs are private property and you cannot access them. The Os are public property. The ?s in the middle are public property, but how do you get to them? The only way is by crossing through a corner. Obviously, the private land owners would prefer to view the public land as an extension of their private land so they believe that corner crossing should be illegal because it passes through their property. (Even if you don’t step on it you have to cross through their airspace so to speak.) Meanwhile, everyone else says, “hey, you can’t just double your land like this! Let me have access to the public land! What the hell do you mean airspace? I’m not a plane! I’m a person! And I didn’t step on your property!”
Genuine curiosity being read as “smug and mocking” is a bit troublesome I feel. I’ve just not traveled a lot. I know things, but I haven’t been there personally, and reading about Yellowstone, it doesn’t exactly highlight that some company controls access to it, more or less.
Thank you for the info on that though, seems horrible, and is exactly the type of behaviour our laws exist to prevent.
The smokey mountains is strictly enforcing parking passes now anywhere without the park. They will tow vehicles and mail you the fee without question if you dont have a pass.
This was in November 2023. It may have just been that day or it may have changed since then.
Yeah, no harm done, but she’d been leading him on for weeks. That’d make me pissed too.
Or she genuinely wanted a friend and anon is so attention starved he can’t see the difference.
I wouldn’t want to go back to that awkward situation either.
… so badly that you quit your job??
Oh, come on. Weeks of talking and flirting (coworkers agreed) and she never mentioned a boyfriend. To be painfully clear, this isn’t a gender thing and anyone can lead someone else on to stroke their own ego. And that’s what this is (if it happened).
You only have the incel’s account of things.
Why not? I’d return, apologize for the misunderstanding, and then laugh about it. Maybe bring a small gift, like cookies or something to share, and make it clear that you’re looking for friendship.
But completely bailing is kind of weird IMO, which tells me there’s more to the story.
I don’t necessarily agree she was leading him on. It was a miscommunication. It’s an extremely common story if men misinterpreting women’s behavior as pursuit when it is often just friendly. Even then, platonic flirting is a thing. If anon really intended for this to be a date, why did he at no point ask if she was single? We can sit here all day and debate whether the girl’s “flirting” was appropriate or not and whether she should’ve said she had a boyfriend, but it goes both ways. What we do know is that, to anon, this was a date and that anon never asked if she was single at any point in the two weeks.
I don’t disagree with you that anon should’ve asked more questions, but platonic flirting is kinda wacky without a well established rapport beforehand. Otherwise it’s just flirting, and can be confusing.
It’s also confusing being asked somewhere and never being told it’s being treated as a date.
thats valid! both people here were kinda shitty to each other
Why not ask? If a guy asks a girl (or vice versa) to go somewhere and it’s not abundantly clear it’s not a date (e.g. you’ve done similar things together before, they’re openly gay, or they explicitly said it’s not a date), then it should be assumed to be a date unless clarified otherwise. So if they don’t specify and you’re unsure, then ask.
That said, her leaving is also odd. A misunderstanding shouldn’t be a big deal. Show up the next day and laugh about it, and you’re golden. I wouldn’t be mad if that happened to me, nor should either anon or the girl. It’s just a misunderstanding, it’s really no big deal.
Why do you see a date as the default for men and women hanging out together?
That’s just how social expectations are. I recommend you go ask a handful of single men you know (i.e. coworkers) whether they’d consider a 1:1 outing with a woman to be a “date.” I’m guessing most would say yes.
You know you only have his side of this story right?
Speak for yourself
I’m reading a green text post here, and then the comments are analysing the situation as if this is r/amitheasshole. What’s going on Lemmy?
Lemmy has a unique community. Lots of thinkers. Personally, I love reading when people start seriously interpreting greentexts.
The post ends with “so did I win?” Which is EXTREMELY similar to asking people if you’re the asshole. Why do you find it surprising people are treating this like an r/aita post?
It’s like this on every greentext post. Everyone immediately assumes the OP is a creepy loser and drags them through the mud.
To be fair, that’s likely the case.
Lemmy is filled with middle aged tech obsessed weirdos. Of course they’ll take something like this literally and take the side of the man.
It’s kinda weird to wait until the last minute to ask if someone else can come along on a planned outing.
But the rest? I dunno. Looks like a pretty standard mixup.
Yeah, it could upset plans such as tickets, amounts of food brought along, seat reservations at restaurants,… so it is a bit rude to keep that to the last minute.
I once had a date with someone, when I showed up I discovered she had a boyfriend. Turned out she had expected him to be asleep when I picked her up.
How did that turn out?
I was young and stupid. Halfway through the date her conscience finally made the right call.
Handling a basic mixup gracefully is the winning.
OP had a chance at a three way and dropped the ball…
I’m actually in a situation somewhat like this. A girl our online group knows became somewhat fixated on me. She wants to talk all the time, fantasizes about us living together, but I know she has a long term bf. She isn’t happy with him, but still, they love together and we know him, so it’s fairly inappropriate.
Definitely sending mixed signals not mentioning her boyfriend and saying she has to do things alone, but not sure how that qualifies as “using”. Hiking isn’t really something people “use” others for, it’s not like he would have been carring her the whole time. If she was getting him to do her job when he was talking to her then yeah, but this doesn’t mention anything like that. She could very well have just wanted a friend to talk to at work and didn’t know how to bring it up after a while…
Maybe I’m overthinking this…
Comments here are ignoring we only have this guys extremely biased view of this situation and are saying “leading him on” was cruel again big assumption.
You mean we have this guy’s extremely biased view on this completely made up situation?
Welcome Anon to the confusing gameshow of “Is she flirting or is that just how she is with friends!” /s
I kinda want to know what Anon and his “female coworkers” thinks counts as flirting. Simply being nice to someone and having fun talking to them isn’t flirting, as much as some guys might like to think it is. Now if she was a more touchy person, I can see how that’d be mistaken, as being touchy is also a common way of flirting.
Though find it odd that she waited until the very last minute to ask if her boyfriend could come. And also, guessing “I’m no longer interested” is paraphrased, cause nobody on 4Chan is mature enough to not make things incredibly uncomfortable at work after this.
And also, guessing “I’m no longer interested” is paraphrased, cause nobody on 4Chan is mature enough to not make things incredibly uncomfortable at work after this.
If maturity is the argument, there are several different options I’d be considering:
- Nobody on 4chan is mature enough to work
- Nobody on 4chan is mature enough to not have already made things incredibly uncomfortable at work
- Nobody on 4chan is mature enough to detect flirting
- Nobody on 4chan is mature enough to ask a coworker out
- Nobody on 4chan is mature enough to have hiking as a hobby/date proposal
- Nobody on 4chan is mature enough to not just reply “yeah sure” to the boyfriend idea
