NGL, not asking for a friend. Given the current trends in US politics, it seems prudent to at least look into it.
Most of the online content on the topic seems to be by immigration attorneys hustling ultra rich people. I’m not ultra rich. I have a job in tech, could work remotely, also have enough assets to not desperately need money if the cost of living were low enough.
I am a native English speaker, fluent enough in Spanish to survive in a Spanish speaking country. I am old, male, cis, hetero, basically asexual at this point. I am outgoing, comfortable among strangers.
What’s good and bad about where you live? Would it be OK for a outsider, newcomer?
You would do good here in The Netherlands. Lots of tech jobs, over here you actually have rights as an employee. No max amount of sick days for example, as no one plans a certain amount of days to be sick. The “FrEeDoM” Americans claim to have is so twisted and extremity far away from actual freedom. Here in NL I do feel I have true freedom. As in: not having to be scared when going out on the streets at night, no matter where I go. There are no guns. No crimes against humanity. Of course we do have issues, every country does. But they are tiny compared to most countries. Although we did vote for right wing parties sadly, we’re not heading in the direction I want.
Oh and EVERYONE speaks English. From child to boomer. Officially it’s not a foreign language anymore due to the high level English most speak. They are even discussing it should be a 3rd national language.
Edit: there’s also a (very unfair to us natives) 30%!!! tax cut for expats to make NL more attractive. So you will make a lot of money yet pay less taxes while having loads of benifits as an employee.
Only issue right now is finding a house. Not enough houses so insane prices. A real housing crisis.
I have American friends who emigrated to the Netherlands and I go there a lot on business too. There are a few other things that are worth considering: Dutch people are generally friendly, but they also tend to take a strong line on assimilation. If you want to live there, learn Dutch and learn how Dutch culture works. Otherwise you won’t fit in. As with any society, there are unwritten rules and norms of behavior that might seem strange at first. For example, the Dutch value frankness more than diplomacy. That can make them seem blunt, even to Americans.
Dutch is not far from English, both are on the same branch of the Germanic languages, but it’s very idiomatic, so fluency can be hard to achieve. Also, the fact that everyone’s so good at English reduces the pressure to learn Dutch. Language learning’s quicker when it’s the only way you can communicate.
And the previous poster’s comment on the housing shortage is no exaggeration: it’s a crisis. Expect difficulty and predatory middlemen when seeking housing.
Also, the weather can be intense: freezing North Sea winds and sideways rain.
Whaaaaaat…?
We are very multicultural, if you don’t want to adjust, that’s fine. There are enough people around who are similar to you. Only if you want to fit in you need to adjust, but that’s in any culture. Over here there’s not that much pressure to do that. Unless you live in the countryside.
Dutch and English are not similar at all. They have completely different origins. Dutch has a germanic origin and English an anglosaxon heritage.
The weather is not intense at all. It’s just humid, so 25C feels like 35C and 5C feels like -5C. But not as humid as a rainforest. Near the coast there’s some wind, but in the cities and inland not too much. Winters have become mild, summers kinda hot but compared to other regions of the world our climate is very mild. Just expect a lot of rain, but compared to the UK even that aspect is really mild too. Just prepare for us to always complain about it. And about everything else too.
Yeah, Dutch people are generally pretty blunt. When you tell something we don’t like will will tell you, politely, where a British person would say “ah that’s interesting”. For autistic people (like me) our directness is really nice. No beating around the bush.
Some English world have a Germanic origin, like “fart”.
Yeah, and vice verse. Europe has a long history, would be weird if there were no words adopted from another language.
A small side note on that 30% ruling, it’s only for highly skilled workers, so there are some requirements to meet.
Also, you’d best not boast about it to your Dutch coworkers if you want to make friends over here :)In tech it’s not that hard to get it. It’s purpose is to make NL attractive to educated workers. Especially these days there are not enough employees in many sectors, so as long as you have an education or can prove you have specialized work experience you’re good.
Do you think bike shops in there Nerherlands would be interested in hiring American bicycle mechanics?
Yeah, for sure. Mechanics are getting scarce, everyone is pushed to get “HiGhEr EdUcAtIoN” so everyone knows how to use a keyboard but never used a hammer and a screwdriver. A lot of uddy of mine is a carpenter, the money he makes is insane because there just aren’t that many skilled people put there anymore. Our bikes have a bit different design, people sit more up right as we use it as a form of transportation instead of for sports. But the mechanics work the same. Although electric bikes are taking over the market right now.
Housing is one of the biggest stuggles for my family. I have 3 kids and so few houses are built for that in the EU. It’s really frustrating every time I look for something.
I have 3 kittens. Much better options
The housing crisis is prevalent everywhere in Europe, though. But it’s not like droves of people have to sleep rough. Yes, rents keep going up, but they are still only a fraction of what you would pay in the US.
And you can actually still buy houses. Really cheap, even. Far off the highways, but some people opt in to exactly that.The Netherlands has a worse housing crisis then the rest of Europe. Houses are not cheaper then in the US. Far from it. Also, the US is really big, so you can’t say that actually. San Francisco and Detroit have completely different housing markets for example. Next to that, here in NL we don’t build huizes from wood, which makes them more expensive as well. And our government extremity limited construction due to EU emission regulations because they are too scared to limit the biggest polutors, the farmers, with their massive export production. Because farmers protest with tractors and tractors are scary. So we prefer farming exports over housing apparently. Because we don’t buy fruits and vegetables produced in The Netherlands, they are too expensive. We buy cheap tasteless junk from Spain and Egypt. So most agricultural production is for export. The profits of our farmers are more important to us then being able to pay our own bills and aging a roof over our heads.
I’m in the UK, and I work with a LOT of Americans already, so know this first hand:
- You fuckers are always in for a culture shock when you realise that everywhere isn’t like London. You seem to either expect London or Harry Potter Land, but when you end up somewhere like Bristol, Leeds, or Birmingham the frame of reference just dies and you see the wheels turning in your head trying to make sense of it all.
- Weirdly, you seem to really like our supermarkets. They’re a lot smaller than yours, meal deals are a novelty that never gets old, and paying the price on the tag is the greatest thing ever.
- You love our bread, and our chocolate is like crack to you. You’d think that you’d moved to France or something…
- Butter on bread will fuck you up. You use Mayo all the time, but we use butter/spread, and it messes with your minds.
- You quickly learn that Europe is a continent, and that cultures across the continent are very different to one another. You also learn that no one knows US history that well, or that we had a war with you (since we have basically had a war with everyone at some point).
- The drinking culture is a really interesting one. Some love it, some hate it. It’s a staple of British life
- We get paid a lot less than you do, but your money will go much further because you’re not spending it on healthcare. You’ll also get taxed a lot, but ultimately you’ll earn enough to be comfortable, and a comfortable life in the UK is nice.
To answer your question, you’re more than welcome here, and it’s much easier to get a visa to the UK for you than for us to go to the US. Expect some people to give you shit for Trump, but give them shit back for Brexit and electing the Tories for 15 years.
Now we’re talking. I have been to the UK quite a bit, and work with plenty of Brits here, so:
Americans are not generally in the habit of addressing people as “you fuckers” until we know you better. :)
UK supermarkets are more like US conveniences stores with more food and no fuel pumps in front. They are OK.
Agreed, the existence of anything besides London, Liverpool, and maybe Manchester is totally a blank to us. Went to Birmingham, had no ckue.
Butter on bread is the only way, don’t know where you got that from.
No reason you guys should care about US history. English history is much more interesting.
Engkish pubs are good. Beer, I think, has gotten better in the US recently.
After Brexit, the UK has permanently renounced the right to criticize anyone’s politics. Still, recent developments there give me hope that it’s possible to come out the other end of this.
Thank you.
I’m in France and my cousin married an American.
Cost of living is high and the language is bullshit, but the standards of living are some of the best in the world. Very old established democracy and rule of law, workers rights, social security, and whatever the complete opposite of political apathy is. Culture is rich with a disproportionate level of global relevance for the country’s size. The location is ideal in the middle of europe, with a good variety of landscapes and climate.
Internet is cheap and fast, but i don’t know anything about the state of tech jobs.
I don’t know much about the tax system either but my assumption is you might save money just on the healthcare alone.
Overall i wouldn’t recommend, you’d be better off in a country with a language closer to english, such as most countries north of France. They’ll have better english proficiency and you’ll learn the language easier.
France always comes up on lists of good places to live, and there are Francophiles here as everywhere. I admire the place, but I chose Spanish instead of French when it was time to start studying another language, so that die was cast a long time ago.
Yeah i don’t think it’s worth learning french for almost any reason, lots more people speak spanish
the language is bullshit
i don’t think it’s worth learning french for almost any reasonPersonally I’m learning French because it’s the language of bande dessinée, and in order to enjoy more BD, plus run my sublemmy more effectively, it’s an obvious choice.
Anyway I find French much harder than Spanish, but am slowly getting the hang of it… I think. Gender is complete BS to me, and it seems like there are tonnes of little grammar rules to follow. Is that why you called it bullshit, yourself?
Yeah, so by all accounts i’m the kind of person most likely to love the french language: native speaker, effortless spelling and grammar, avid reader of BD, i even like the flowery and decorative aspects of the language (language soutenu); but then i also speak other languages, and this gives me the perspective that, from a practical standpoint, there’s a lot of issues with french. There’s layers of sediment accumulated over centuries, a lot of rules and spellings are vestigial and serve no purpose anymore other than make it harder.
Also, a lot of rules and spellings come from grammarians just saying so, and writing prescriptivist style guides to make people spell The Correct Way. To a point, i even think the ability to invent and follow an arbitrary The Correct Way hass been a class signal.
Even native french speakers sometimes have bad grammar, or at least that’s much more common than english speakers having bad grammar.
English speakers say the same things about their language, but they don’t know about ô <— this accent and the agony of trying to guess when it should be used or not. It’s supposed to indicate a difference in pronunciation, but this difference depends on the accent and is also obvious from context. I’ve known teachers to dock points for shit like this, and it radicalized me against arbitrary rules despite being completely capable of following them. In my opinion, people use features that have a purpose; if people don’t use it, then it’s pointless.
And from a global perspective, fewer people speak french than a lot of other languages. On the one hand this doesn’t matter, lots of people speak mandarin, it’s about who you’re likely to interact with; but i’d say your more likely to interact with spanish speakers.
Unless of course you’re that much into BD. That doesn’t surprise me at all, lots of english speakers learned japanese for weeb reasons, i think it’s completely legit to learn a language for the culture. Actually i find it pretty impressive
Hate to sound ignorant here, what’s BD?
There are more French than English speakers with bad grammar? I find that difficult to believe.
BD = Bande Dessinée, the french term for both graphic novels and comics. Both have a huge history in Europe in general and France-Belgium in particular, but it’s extremely unusual for english speakrs to know or care, it’s really appreciated.
I guess i shouldn’t speak so definitively, it’s not like i have data to back up the fact that there are more French than English speakers with bad grammar; but really, french grammar is worse than complex, it’s unintuitive and arbitrary, and it does feel like i see more french speakers with bad grammar. For what that’s worth
I don’t know why anyone (who doesn’t have ancestry there) would want to move to Pakistan. Sure, it’s not completely undeveloped (otherwise I wouldn’t be sending this message lol), but it still has a VEEERRRRRYY long way to go compared to other industrialised countries.
- Electricity has become more reliable over the years, but you still have to deal with increasing bills, so that the government can pay off its IMF loans
- Piped gas still isn’t 24/7, it’s off from 10 pm to 6 am
- Tap water still isn’t drinkable
- Karachi, Lahore, and Islamabad disproportionately receive the lion’s share of development while smaller cities are neglected
- Even Karachi can be said to not be as developed as Lahore or Islamabad. When I visited it, I found that it was greatly overpopulated and many apartment buildings were extremely worn-down. Chipping paint for instance. My father says that since Lahore and Islamabad are a comfortable driving distance away from each other, the population is more evenly distributed between the two cities. Hyderabad’s near Karachi, but remember, it’s not a big three city …
- Even the development in Lahore and Islamabad is not optimal. Mostly relying on private housing projects, not making an effort to make them integrate with the rest of the city
- Suboptimal public transport. In Lahore there is a public bus and metro system, but both don’t cover too much of the city. For intercity buses, people rely on private companies such as Daewoo Express. And again, the reliance on private housing projects hinders true city-wide planning
- Professionals (doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc.) receive very low salaries compared to what they could earn abroad. The devaluation of the rupee is related to it, but only partially. That’s why millions of us have moved abroad to literally every other country, and thus why remittances are a big portion of this country’s income
- Lahore is literally the smoggiest city in the world right now. Did I mention it’s one of the three most developed?
- Too much non-air pollution as well. There is a culture of littering, partially because people aren’t punished for it and thus have adopted a care-free attitude, and partially because there aren’t enough outdoor wastebins
I haven’t even gotten into the sociopolitical aspects … I’d be writing a whole book at that point
Too bad some of the people who need the protection the most (disabled Americans) are unwelcome. Sucks to be us I guess.
Unwelcome where, exactly?
First of all, stop using word “expat” when you’re talking of immigrants but from “better countries”
Ive usually seen “Expat” defined as someone working in another country, but explicitly with the intent to be there temporarily and leave once their time at that job ends, rather than moving there with an intent to stay and join that society. Which, granted, doesnt seem to be what OP is actually talking about in this case.
It’s short for “expatriate.” I’m not saying it isn’t used in the way you described, but that’s not the original meaning.
Yea, I always thought an “expat” was someone who was temporarily sent to another country to work for their company there.
Americans don’t want to be grouped in with “dirty non-white immigrants” so they consider themselves expats even if they intend the move abroad permanently.
Thats just the expats changing the narrative when people started calling them out on it.
What OP is talking about has been a thing since the 90s and even 80s and earlier with ex-military.
Move to a cheap country where your pension/disability/passive income/whatever makes you wealthy.
Originally places liked it because it was an influx in cash. But then it became too popular and they were gentrifying places to the point locals couldn’t afford to live and these leeches never worked.
It became big again with the internet when people became able to work and American job while overseas remotely. But by now most American companies just won’t pay American wages. If they wanted someone overseas they’d pay them the low wage they always do.
With those younger people they added the “temporary” because they say they’ll move back someday.
What you’re talking about (if the job is in that country) would be a migrant worker.
But they also don’t like that label, they think they’re better than it.
I’d argue we should call all migrant workers expats. Unless they’re literally working in a migratory fashion, spring here, summer there, fall somewhere else, etc.
That’s what it means but some people use it wrong and some people complain about it being used wrong, wrongly
Hard agree, expat as a term only exists because white people wanted to separate themselves from those they deem ”lesser immigrants”
I moved to Japan from Sweden, I only call my self an immigrant because that’s what I am
PewDiePie is that you?
Haha I wish, but sadly not
I always understood that you refer to yourself and your fellow countrymen abroad as expats. You use the word immigrant when referring to others.
I call myself a cultural refugee, if anyone asks.
Yes, this is exactly how I would define it.
I also don’t think it imparts a general pro/anti integration with locals (not to say some assholes aren’t out there).
If I was thinking of immigrating elsewhere, I’d want to be near a few other people from my country who’ve been there longer than me, if only to make the transition easier and to get help with any issues specific to people from the same place.
That’s some old fashion ‘us versus them,’ kinda thinking.
I’d love to see countries mark “expat” as an option on forms…
Just as a trap to filter them all out.
It was literally in the last couple of weeks that I first came across this. I thought it just meant ‘a person living in a country in which isn’t their home country’ regardless of origin, etc. The only thing I thought of it is that it wasn’t necessarily permanent whereas immigrant to me had permanence. It’s wild that, to me, it seems to have come out of nowhere.
I always saw expats as something between immigrants and tourists. They aren’t trying to switch countries and they aren’t just on vacation. There’s plenty of good reasons for this category, like being sent somewhere by your employer. This naturally creates a community of foreigners who aren’t necessarily worried about fitting in as a new citizen or permanent resident would be.
But yeah, this idea that Western countries have expats instead of emigrants is weird.
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Depends how they behave. If they behave like “Expats”, who don’t care about integrating into our society, don’t care about learning the local language even after years, they are not welcome.
If they integrate seamless (and this does not imply giving up their identity, just to make sure), and become a good member of this society, be welcome.
That seems to be a hard thing for many Americans and Brits to do. I have a couple American friends living in Europe who’ve learned the language and immersed themselves in the culture, but they’re exceptional. One even learned both the national and regional language. Not too many Americans who can converse in Catalan.
It may be hard, but if you want to live in a foreign country, it is the minimum requirement I would expect. Forcing your host to permanently bend over backwards just to cater for your lack of effort is most impolite.
I simply don’t understand the distinction between seamless integration and losing your cultural identity.
They’re synonyms to me; the positive and negative sides of the same coin.
No, they are not. Seamless integrating yourself means to be able to communicate with your environment and to accept local laws and customs. I expect someone to immigrate from e.g. a Muslim country to accept that sharia is not our law, and that he has to accept that women are allowed to speak and gay people are not to beheaded.
On the other hand, I would not ask them to lose their cultural identity. There is no reason they cannot remain Muslim and observe their own religious customs or celebrate their holidays.
I think you misread my comment if you’re going to start out like that.
I’m going to assume the rest of your comment is similarly missing the point and not read it.
I hope you have a better day.
No, I did not misread your comment. Maybe you would have understood if you had read my reply.
The very first sentence of your comment indicated you misread mine. Why waste my time reading the rest?
Summed it up pretty well.
We love our country, and welcome you to join it. But join us - don’t bring your country’s problems here.
i barely integrate now as an american; mostly because of my neuro-divergence makes it easy for people to misread me due my intonation and body language and the number episodes of misunderstanding happened MUCH MORE frequently when i visited my potential new home country as a tourist over the last 40ish years.
i automatically qualify for citizenship for the country and i wonder what it’s going to be like if i have to live there because i have both legal and cultural claim to the country; but i’m very much american plus an american that always seems arrogant and callous to everyone no matter how much he tries.
Do you speak the country’s language already?
yes and i’ve leveraged it along w the stereotype of the entitled american tourist (thanks to my very strong american accent) to get out of most of those episodes.
Preach
When I here Expat I assume asshole xD
You would literally lose your job and social life in the US if you said this in America about immigrants lol
The fact you’re getting dunked on for this comment shows how delusional people are.
I am born, raised, and live in one of the most diverse cities on the planet. I could care less about you assimilating to my culture. And I definitely don’t care if you can’t speak the language.
That’s some Nazi crap to judge people like that.
Learning the language of the country you’re moving to should be the bare minimum of what’s expected of you. I’d suggest taking a history lesson if your goto is comparing it to Nazism, seems rather disrespectful to actual victims of the Nazi Party.
It’s interesting how the top comment here and its most upvoted comment are literally Trump’s words reshuffled and phrased ‘nicely.’ When looking at the rise of the right in the European continent, I wonder how many would agree with reworded american fascist statements while condemning the fascists, like some of those ‘street interview’ videos do with public figure quotes that are attributed to individuals that the interviewees agree/disagree with.
Welcome to EU! Prepare for a cultural shift:
Considering that everyone on lemmy is 30+ communist tech worker, it’s probably a welcome change
Speaking more specifically about Poland, depending on how you measure, we might have the most rapidly secularizing society in the world Some Americans (catholic fundamentalists) seem to think that you can just barge in, snatch a tradwife and plot of land and live like it’s 50s, but these people are straight up delusional. Introducing ban on abortion, for example, erased full quarter of support for the party that did it (40% ish to 30% ish overnight) and caused largest protests since dissolution of Soviet Union. There are conservative women, but these tend to be 60+
In tech job market specifically, the bubble has ended (like everywhere else i guess), but if you’re a senior or able to keep your current job you’ll be fine (not sure how you’d get residence permit then). You’d need to lean Polish as a practical matter, because while lots of people do speak decent English, many don’t (esp. 50+ and in small towns) and many official matters can be done in Polish only. Like everywhere else, there’s division between more conservative rural areas and more liberal large cities; no one wants to live in the former, even locals, and so most of foreigners live in Warsaw (or Kraków, or Wrocław). It sounds like you’d blend in right away in one of these places. While property prices and rent went up since start of the plague, it’s not as crushingly bad as in, say, Berlin or Rotterdam. Random benefits include ability to pirate absolutely everything without VPN with no consequences and ability to use complaint as a conversation starter
I want to say on that cultural shift, having lived my entire life in the dark blue sections of the US… that would be such a freaking welcome change.
Also fucking shocked that Kansas ISN’T dark blue.
I never thought about it before, but I agree - you can start a conversion by complaining.
Living in Poland all my life, I also would like to mention it feels really safe here (as a white male, so…).
Unless you’re into football, or low quality clubbing you’ll be hard to find violent crime. Domestic violence and related murders do happen, but you’ll be hard pressed to get yourself mugged or assaulted these days.
You can pay by card or via app (blik) nearly anywhere, small village shop, street produce vendor, food truck, anywhere. If they don’t want your card they are probably doing some tax fraud, or are bad at finding low card payment fees.
TL;DR: I’ve travelled a bit, and I really don’t think I’d rather live anywhere else.
I really enjoy visiting Poland. Polish people are often warm, talkative, creative and many have travelled outside Poland. I’ve had infrequent encounters with belligerent drunks, but it never got to the point of being threatening.
If I were to move there, though, I think it’d take a lot of effort to learn Polish.
I guess it’s good to hear that things are changing for the better, I emigrated from Poland when I was a child to Norway and my perception of Poland is a far less favourable one lol
Though my entire polish family are also very religious and conservative so
look up all the weird shit polish immigrants are up to in Chicago. You’d think they’re living in 20s or at least 70s
That’s really funny - my very Catholic mom is going to Poland next year with some church group and the priest, lol…I apologize for her in advance!
I’ve always wanted to visit Poland and still hope I can, one day. But no weird Catholic shit!
I’m guessing she’s going to Częstochowa?
Is that the church in the salt mine? That’s the only place she’s mentioned so far, but I don’t recall the name or if she even said it, really. She may have just read about it and not known how it was pronounced.
That’s Wieliczka. There’s more to it than the church, it’s pretty cool, but you’re liable to be salty on you ur way back up.
That’s Wieliczka salt mine, sounds more like a regular tourism and less like pilgrimage. At least it’s not Licheń, plastic-clad tourist trap monstrosity where you have unique opportunity to get scammed by our only televangelist (whose main medium is radio, and is catholic)
Częstochowa is on a hill, that’s a big centuries old monastery. Frequent pilgrimage target
She may be going to more places but that’s the only one she mentioned specifically.
If you’re a nurse or some other skilled professional in some specific fields… We have kind of a labor shortage with some jobs here in Germany. I live in the city, should be okay for outsiders. I guess.
I’d recommend to visit a place before considering to move. See how the people act. And you’d need to learn the language to be able to take part in regular every day life. (Edit: And for most jobs.)
Ja, aber man braucht wenigstens b2 für eine Ausbildung zu machen. Das gelt auch für wenn man möchte als Pflegefachmann/frau arbeiten
Stimmt, da habe ich wohl ein großes ‘Aber’ ausgelassen. Habe das mal ergänzt, Danke. Angeblich ist Deutsch ja auch nicht so ganz so leicht zu erlernen. Viele der anderen Sprachen aber wahrscheinlich ebenso wenig.
Ja genau, Deutsch für mich persönlich war/ist schwierig, aber es ist nicht so kompliziert wie es auf Youtube oder Tiktok erklärt werden. Ich schätze, dass es viel einfacher als Arabisch ist.
Beim Sprachen lernen kommt’s immer drauf an wo man her kommt/welche Sprache die Muttersprache ist.
Wer als Deutschsprachiger Japanisch lernt hat es z.b. schwieriger als jemand, der schon Chinesisch kann und Japanisch lernt, weil die Sprachen in den Regionen mehr Ähnlichkeiten haben.
Andererseits ist es für uns Deutsche einfacher Englisch zu lernen als z.b. für die Japaner, weil Englisch und Deutsch vom Aufbau relativ ähnlich sind.
Ja, Englisch und Deutsch sind auch beides germanische Sprachen, sind also durchaus enger verwandt. Wobei ich finde, Englisch ist auch sowieso eine der einfachsten Sprachen zu erlernen. Man muss kein der/die/das mitlernen, die unregelmäßigen Verben sind finde ich ein Witz gegen Deutsch und Französisch (was ich mal in der Schule hatte), wo es ja zu jeder Regel ohnehin zig Ausnahmen gibt … Ich hab mal etwas im Internet herumgeschaut, die Leute sagen man kann B2 Deutsch so in circa 1-2 Jahren nebenher erlernen.
I’m an American living and working in Europe for years now. It’s pretty great, although language barriers can leave you feeling a little isolated sometimes. That said, the thought of going back to the US turns my stomach. European working culture is much more… Human. More understanding about things like sick days, better vacation packages and, better worker protections.
I wish the US could be better, but it no longer looks like that will happen in my lifetime so I’ll do my best to find happiness here instead.
About language barriers: have you ever considered actually learning your host countries language?
Of course. But learning a language as an adult is a huge challenge. I take lessons but it’s slow progress, people aren’t always understanding when you stumble or don’t know words and I’m juggling full time professional work on top of it so time and mental energy are limited.
Even after years of practice I will never not sound like a foreigner, which is distancing.
There is no need to be perfect. But it at least shows effort. I have met people who lived here for 40 years and never bothered to learn even simple words or phrases. And that lack of effort, this absolute disinterest in ones host society is, in my opinion, highly impolite and antisocial.
In tech, is there really a need, though? All of this year’s new hires I’ve met communicate exclusively in English. No-one cares.
It might not be a job problem to just function, but not learning the local language makes you a bit anti-social in any other aspect.
Any tips for someone who would want to emigrate, but doesn’t have any connections? I am an engineer and I have looked at immigration requirements for places like Canada and New Zeeland in the past and it seems like the only real shot I might have is if I work for an international company that has facilities in one of those countries.
Work is how I got in. The IT sector gives you a fair bit of mobility as a worker, an EU blue card can be obtained without a degree (but with relevant experience) if you have a company sponsor you over.
Get a job that will help you immigrate. My company hired a third party to handle most of my paper work. I still had to get apostille for everything, but then they did most of the visa work. They also paid for relocation.
The language thing can be isolating but it also drives you to learn.
Here in Scotland / the UK you’d be absolutely fine so long as you’re a decent person. There’s not even a language barrier beyond dialect, and dialects vary hugely within the UK and each part of the UK anyway. Just please don’t insist that your great-great-grandmother is actually from Clan MacWhatever.
I live in southwestern England, and make it clear that I have no ancestral ties to the place, I just like living there. People seem OK with that answer.
What if my mom grew up across the road from Bellahouston Park?
Then it’s no wonder she left
Does establishing some kind of ancestry actually do anything? I did a whole report on my great great grandfather on my mother’s side and learned about the name and the clan. Still remember the motto and official plaid and all that jazz. Never once considered it’d ever be relevant to anything.
It is fun seeing “nec sorte, nec fato” pop up ocassionally tho.
It might allow you to join the clan as a social club, essentially. A fair few of them have newsletters and run events where they get together, so it can be a good network. It doesn’t affect the day-to-day life of the average person, though
Why would I want people from a less privileged country coming here and stealing our jobs, putting a burden on our healthcare system and making housing even more expensive?
Congratulations America, you’re now the english language Mexico… with worse Tacos.
Hey not cool don’t diss Mexico like that
This is what so many don’t understand. Other countries don’t want us. Why would they?
If you have some skill that they are short on. That is the main reason. In that way you aren’t just some filthy American, your a skilled worker.
And by the way? This is Trump’s point of view, and it’s hilarious to see it not called fascism just because it’s a person from another country.
Wait what? If an economy is to accept an immigrant, that immigrant should be either contributing to society, seeking asylum, or both.
Yeah. Trump has said that we’re taking in too many undesirables from other countries, and he’s bad for that.
That excludes most of us. For example I’m a pricing analyst. Doubt they’d even need me, let alone all the people working retail or customer service positions.
Yeah most of the auto mechanics probably voted for Trump, but a lot didn’t. We have a ton of people working in restaurants, driving for Lyft, etc.
Most people are fucked.
This mechanic voted for Harris.
This mechanic is also never worried about anything. Republican or Democrat, your car breaks down all the same, and I’ll be waiting with a bill that doesn’t give any sort of a shit about inflation as you’re all well-aware.
I am originally from the US but moved to AU and am now a citizen. I got lucky and got out just before Trump’s first presidency.
Life here is good. Like, better than most Americans can really understand. Healthcare is free, education is good and includes topics like critical thinking and understanding how to spot “fake news”.
There is only a small aisle of frozen food in the grocery store, not nearly as much pre-packaged food. There are affordable fresh fruits and vegetables, and outside most grocery stores is an independent baker, butcher, fishmonger, and fruit and veg stand.
Minimum wage is $24.10 an hour, and you cannot be fired for no reason if you are a full time employee.
If you compare things (and adjust for AUD to USD) like rent, gas, milk, bread, eggs… Things cost about the same here as in the US.
We pay around the same amount in taxes, and get so much more.
Things aren’t completely rosy, distressingly, Australia seems to want to emulate the US in certain ways which worries me.
There is also currently a bit of an economic downturn and while it’s nothing like what I left behind, it does mean things cost more and luxuries have to be budgeted for.
I think anyone who isn’t a dick would be welcome here. There are racist cunts here like everywhere, but generally Aussies are the kindest and most welcoming people.
Mexican here. Generally, most of the population won’t be very welcoming. Talking specifically about mexico city. You see, the amount of money you make in tech in the US will allow you to stay at the very best places in the city, which pushes native people out of those districts and makes them angry in the process. However, those districts are already popular for tourists/rich immigrants and that’s probably for a reason. I guess business there benefit from this wealth availability so they will treat you well. I’m not rich so idk. Also, it’s probably not hard to emigrate here bureaucracy wise.
Speaking Spanish, you will likely do very well in mexico. Good food, good nightlife, good safety and infrastructure (assuming you stay in the good zones), etc.
Personally, having traveled to other countries (talking about US and places in Europe specifically), I love the diversity of nationalities you can find. I think different backgrounds and experiences is very important to drive innovation. I’d love to see more of that in my home country so I’m for more people emigrating to mexico. Feel free to ask questions if you are curious.
Gentrification is a problem in the US too, probably most everywhere. Mexico City would be another great culture to be in, but I’m not really interested in living in some isolated communiy though. Is it possible for a foreigner to live a reasonable middle class existence there?
Well, yes of course. Some relatives have few foreigner coworkers and they seem to be happy. (tho I don’t know them personally). Also I’ve met some foreigners through university and they seem to adapt well. But I guess it heavily depends on what kind of lifestyle you want to have.
People are usually warm and we appreciate it if you show interest in our culture and adapting here. You should be more than fine if you are mindful to that and better still if you are naturally outgoing. Good luck and hope you find a cool place to go, or things get better if you end up not moving.
Lots of Americans here in London, UK. They’ve generally been transferred by their company though. I expect it’s v hard to get in when applying for a new job.
I never even considered the UK, in spite of having English friends here in the states, and US friends currently living there, and enjoying it. My limited knowledge is that visa issues are problematic, and the cost of living is rather high. Culturally it would be great.
The UK spent hundreds of years searching for and taking home all the culture they could due to specifically not having any culture whatsoever back home. They also used that culture like they used their spices, which is not at all. The English are a terrible example of humanity and should not be recognized as anything other than the barbarians they are.
There’s much more to culture than artifacts. Besides a few encounters in London, I’ve seldom encountered “terrible examples of humanity” here. Mostly, people are friendly, or at worst, indifferent.
Just like the “nice” Germans right around 1935 and 1940
The UK should absolutely give back cultural artifacts it took from around the world, but everything else you said is silly.
I think that was the point. To be silly.
