I had a buddy, and we talked in great detail about this. I chase challenges, and am always looking for the next big puzzle to muddle my way through. He chased freedom. He just wanted to be who he was and spend his time how he wanted.
My point is people are motivated by different things. Find your thing and pursue it. Don’t worry what anyone else is doing. You don’t answer to them, and they’re not any happier than you.
Living your authenticity is fulfilling.
The caveat is don’t conflate freedom/motivation with being a dick. Live the life that you want to live, but if that involves disparaging certain demographics for ethically and/or morally wrong reasons, then maybe live a better life than the one you really want to live. This doesn’t apply to most people, but there are some out there that should read it and take it to heart.
Yeah I’m a bit of both. When I’m working, I always want the next challenge. When I’m at home, I’m quite content to just cease to exist
Mate, I’d definitely prefer loose leaf tea but can’t be arsed with the extra hassle
There are dozens of us
Dozens!
I think so anyway. I haven’t checked.
As long as you feel you want to avoid responsibilities, please do so in a responsible way. Use condoms every time, and don’t get involved with a person who wants children. Be a good support-player at work so your manager doesn’t have to be a bitch (they still might, in which case support your coworkers). And contribute in low-effort ways like donating an occasional pint of blood if you’re eligible, or offering to put someone else’s cart away at the grocery store. Just being a decent person is enough.
There are a ton of negative comments on here, but i think the reality is: people value different things.
When you have certain values you will sacrifice certain things to practice those values/achieve those goals.
Some people value charity work because helping the community and people makes them feel good–even if it’s more work on their plate.
Some people sacrifice their personal lives to achieve a career goal. Sometimes that’s for financial reasons, sometimes that’s for ego reasons, sometimes it’s “meeting a challenge”.
Some people will sacrifice their career to have less stress or focus on their family. Some people value their hobbies, relationships, personal interests to the point where they’ll pick jobs that let them focus on those things–even if those jobs don’t pay as well, even if they aren’t “progressing” up the ladder.
And for what it’s worth, your values (may) shift over time. I never wanted kids for the longest time. Then I did.
I valued career progression for ego and financial reasons–and now, that’s shifted.
I sacrificed spending time with my friends when I had my kid, but now I am putting a lot of effort into those friendships because I value them and that requires work. That means I didn’t take a job offer that would have paid more, so I would have time for my family and friends.
I value those things more at this point.
I value my time playing computer games, so I sacrifice my sleep so I can do that. :)
Some people are like dogs: they want to be useful & helpful.
Some people are like cats: they want to sleep 16 hours a day & meow loudly at 3am.
Some of us like to poop in the sand box as well.
If you’re in the sand box, does it count as a blumpkin? Or is it toilet specific.
I now have a new thing to add to my bucket list.
I am the same and find that life is enough for me as it is. I’m also on the spectrum so it’s easier to not burden myself unnecessarily.
My ADHD plays a huge part in the opposite direction. I have had hundreds of different hobbies or interests. Each hold my attention for a while and then I rotate to the next.
What I have learned to do is make hobbies or projects interrelated and each supports the next. CAD work supports my 3D printing, which supports all the rest, as an example. Tools purchased need to have multiple uses and other supplies the same. Essentially, I have constructed a huge feedback loop for my natural tendency to bounce around.
While that stuff keeps me busy, I am learning to simplify the rest of my life, so that is nice.
Wow. I think you just resolved some minor trauma for me. My mother used to berate (and sometimes beat) me for “never finishing things”, as in I’d be really interested in something and then lost interest. It drove her up the wall, but since I was a kid all I heard was “stop being interested in everything”.
I got dx’d with ADHD at 35. Slowly, and thanks to comments like yours, I’m making sense of my brain and learning to be kind to myself
I was diagnosed early, but didn’t start treatment until my 30’s. Basically, I had some really unfounded perceptions of the condition and how amphetamines worked. Whoo boy, was I wrong!
But yeah, it’s hard not to use the condition as a crutch or an excuse. It’s a legitimate condition, no doubt, but the trick is trying to learn ways to leverage it as a positive. (TBH, this only works in some cases, not all.)
The biggest challenge for me is trying to communicate how I think and operate to others. Processes that work for normal humans simply do not work for me. This poses some massive challenges in my career, for sure. By the same token, the way I think gives me unique advantages in problem solving. (I am in IT Security by trade where thinking differently is almost a requirement.)
Man, I wish I had heard this decades ago. Most of my hobbies are entirely unconnected except building guitars then playing them. I have a garage full of woodworking stuff that’s only for that, a garage full of tools for working on motorcycles that don’t overlap, a bunch of tools for cooking outdoors, a room full of entirely unconnected gear for playing pool, rock climbing, a shelf full of tabletop games, gardening equipment, fishing gear, and equipment to make a beverage that is illegal for me to make at both the federal and state level.
You have a good system.
Those sound like some pretty cool hobbies tbh.
They’re all a lot of fun. The only ones I have kept up with long term are building and playing guitars, cooking outdoors, and working on motorcycles. The rest were passing fancies.
Can you give some more examples please?
Not op, but I love making interesting furniture and light fixtures. It’s a combination of wood working, pretty lights, microcontrollers, open source projects, and stuff that normies fucking love, like epoxy desks. I always have a handful of projects at various states of completion and whenever I get bored of one I bounce to another until I finish and then just pick something from my yuge list of stuff I wanna build and keep going.
Exactly! Compared to what neurotypical people are capable of, I truly do feel disabled in some ways. However, as long as I can continue to support myself and my partner until we both die, I’ll be good without all the extra bullshit and responsibilities.
They aren’t thinking of it in terms of increasing responsibility. That is the cost of the decisions they are making, but it’s not the benefit. Each of the things you mentioned have clear benefits (pay raise, biological drive, altruism). They are simply making decisions about when the benefits outweigh the costs.
I became a manager because I worked with shitty managers who sit on their ass and promote their friends. I wanted to change that.
I take on harder projects than my peers because I can handle it. It’s easier for me to deal with the stress, than give it to a teammate who would absolutely struggle and lose 4 weekends trying to solve it.
I became a parent because I worked in the school system and taught kids without good families. I used to stay after school just to give these kids a positive influence before they get sent back to their shitty home.
I absolutely do not think about the stress of the added work, but instead focus on the results of my actions (or the results if I don’t do it).
I became a parent because I worked in the school system and taught kids without good families. I used to stay after school just to give these kids a positive influence before they get sent back to their shitty home.
Don’t take this as criticism, just trying to understand: What’s the logic here? As a teacher without kids (for now), I feel like I’d have more to give to help my pupils if I don’t have kids of my own.
Regardless, thank you both for the work that you do.
Thanks for doing what you do.
And I can see the confusion. I grew up in the ghetto, I also wasn’t raised in a good environment. I have children and I’m in the process of adopting as well.
We’ve been tricked into thinking either that hard work pays off or this specific hard work thing will pay off. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn’t. But all the time it leads to more work.
My expert psychoanalysis of your entire personality based on a one sentence post is either you’re happy where you are, or you’re afraid of change.
I’m 55 , child free, divorced & dating, and my last earthly responsibility is to make sure my cat has a beautiful life and that I outlive her so she isn’t alone and scared.
I have refused to rescue other animals, I refuse to have children, I will never remarry, I own my sailboat (home) outright, I own my 2002 Toyota Echo (with almost a quarter of a million miles) outright. My monthly bills are around $400/m excluding food. When I sell the car and ditch my cell plan my bills will be under $200/m. I’ve done all of this to minimize the effect of ‘things I have to do and don’t want to’. And it’s beautiful. I’m as much a master of my own life as I have ever been.
Last year I left my position and I have no intentions of ever being a FTE ever again. Contract work, that I have negotiated is fine, but I’ll never be someone’s ‘property’ again.
I live on a small boat, I drive an old car, I shop at Goodwill & used lots (of clothing) on eBay. I’ll never have the hot girlfriend, the fancy car, the tailored suits again. It was and still is the best trading I’ve ever done.
Don’t get caught up in who you are ‘supposed to be’, be who you are. If you discover things about yourself you aren’t fond of, change it and/or seek the guidance of a professional to assist you.
There’s nothing wrong with you. It’s perfectly ok to live a life others don’t understand.
[edit] The part I left out is I felt similarly at 30. I climbed the corporate ladder because I was supposed to and because my peers and friends were doing the same. I wasted 15 or so years doing the wrong things for the wrong reasons. Don’t do the same. Enjoy who you are, fix the things you don’t enjoy, AND NEVER EVER NEVER LIVE YOUR LIFE BY COMPARISON.
An important detail from your story is how much money you started with and gained during your corporate life. Living the way you do now can absolutely be a privilege even if it is simpler. Your core message about being yourself and not what society or specific people want you to be is still good, also assuming what you want to be is ethical in nature.
I started off with several thousand in the hole in 2015 and became debt free in 2021. I took a position in 2019 I was qualified to do 20 years prior because I wanted less stress and more time to myself for $68k/year and I stayed at that position for 4 years. I paid $11,800 cash for my sailboat (29 feet) and $1000 cash for my car. I currently have less than $20k in cash and savings.
All of the big money I had was wasted on the right car, the right clothes, the right watch, the right girl, the right condo. All of it of course was a waste, at least for me. I lived like an average American, wracking up debt so I could ’ live the life '.
[edit] I am a highschool drop out, having only made it though 10th grade. No college, no tradeschool, I self taught how to use a computer (1994) and moved forward from that. I hold no degrees, no certifications. I ended up in System Engineering and Infosec.
Now I repair laptops and phones for people who live in the water, and sometimes do manual labor in a boatyard.
If that doesn’t clear it up please let me know what I’m missing in details.
Whaaaa life is hard and you have to figure out cash flow.
I’ll add to that.
If you DM me and say ‘Hey do you think you could help me figure out something like you have?’ I would actually try to help you.
Take a different tack bro, you’ll be happier
No, no I don’t. I worked yesterday for 4 hours and that made my bills for the next month. How much cash management do you think a cat with $400 of bills a month needs to do?
Actually less than that now, because I switched from $3200/y insurance with Giecko to $800/y with progressive.
So go be pissy and dismissive in the mirror, but being snarky at me because I figured out a better deal is just childish.
You literally did, so that wasn’t aimed at you.
I apologize.
i consider to some degree, actively avoiding responsibility as a form of responsibility.
For instance, if you know that you can’t be a good parent, then don’t. Some people just have different priorities, and if yours are simply enjoying life, then fuck it.
Perhaps they value different things in life. Everyone is not the same, what works for you won’t work for everyone. There are people who enjoy having responsibility. Having children, being a manager and doing charity work feels fulfilling to them.
Until they say they are over their head and start complaining they have no free time in a very negative tone to all of their childless/non managerial friends and guilt tripping on how they should do the same. “When are you having kids?”
Do childless, non-managerial people have no complaints in life? Most things aren’t perfect. It doesn’t mean they’re not also fulfilling.
On the other hand, some people just like to complain. The comment you’re making just lacks some nuance.
You should talk.
You shouldn’t
I know these types. There’s nothing stopping them from having the kids babysat or to take a day off, but they’d rather be able to hit people over the head with the victim complex even though they put themselves into their position knowingly and without hesitation.
Half the people I work with have kids and, if you complain about anything at all around them, they always have some way to minimize it and one up you. Got three hours of sleep? Well, with their kids, they only sleep 30 minutes a night on a bed of nails under a running stream of volcanic temp water. Starving because work is crazy, you haven’t eaten all day, and it’s 7pm? With their kids busy schedules, they only eat once a fortnight, on the toilet, crying into they’re meal which only consists of bread crusts their kids didn’t want. Like, sorry, I forgot I’m not allowed to suffer around you people because you made a life decision that requires extra effort on a daily basis.
Hello, someone who went to a manager position here! I’m 100% with you, decreasing responsibility means decreasing stress and so is always a priority! However, there are a few reasons one might shoot for the moon anyway.
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Ambition. This is the obvious one, some people just want more. More money, more power, more prestige. That is a valid reason to push further but isn’t for everyone.
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Empathy. Yep you read that right! Ambition isn’t the only driving force to take on more responsibility. Empathy can lead people to see the ways to improve others’ lives, workloads, and more!
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Accidents. Especially with children but also in other areas, accidents happen and can often leave people with more on their shoulders than expected.
I personally am mostly number 2. I saw the terrible leadership that my team has had in the past and the ways I could assist my team to improve. I knew all the complaints and had ideas to fix them so I took the responsibility bullet so they don’t have to.
I hope this helps you see into the mind of someone who accepts responsibility, even if it means more stress and less freedom!
Empathy. Yep you read that right! Ambition isn’t the only driving force to take on more responsibility. Empathy can lead people to see the ways to improve others’ lives, workloads, and more!
I actually really resonate with that one. I pretty much ended up in the psudo-managment position I’m in because I kept seeing ways to improve life for those around me and it required me getting more and more involved in things outside of my specific role. It got to the point that I became the “go to” guy and ended up with a bunch of responsibilities, but at least the work is a little easier for those I work with directly on the factory floor and a few people in the office as well.
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Because people find fulfillment in different things.
i got a masters,tried to climb the corporate ladder only to realise,i prefer the quiet life,less responsibility and less stress.
i didn’t want to be a corporate high flyer after trying to. some people will never know until they try and some couldn’t get out because they went with the flow and got stuck.
This. I’m currently a CTO. Planning my next move to be a developer, not management of any kind.
If you find some spare time.
I would love to know how you rose to that position and what the work was like.
Sincerely, A developer who feels the upper rungs on the ladder is a good way to make meaningful change
Same boat. I’m currently a software engineer. Colleagues have joked in the past that I’ll make my way as a manager or something, but the reality is that I’m more than fine remaining in this position the rest of my career. I’m fortunate enough that I’m fine with the money I make. I’m fine with my responsibilities, including the flexibility I have with my time. Not to mention that I enjoy doing actual development type work.
It would have to be a significant amount of money for me to even think about accepting any management roles.
I would entertain a lead type role (lead software engineer or principal software engineer, etc), but management personally is off the table.
Because for many people maturing into an adult means taking on and fulfilling responsibilities. It gives many people meaning and satisfaction, often not at the individual moment, but over the course of a life.
Others don’t feel that way.
A third category think they don’t feel that way, but realize too late that they do.
interesting how you only see the third category going one way
Interesting that it bothered you enough to comment on it.
I’ve worked in hospice care in the past. I’m sure there are people that regret taking on responsibility in their life, but the most desperate people I encountered were the ones that realized that they are at the end of their life and realized that they will never have the opportunity to “finally” take on challenges and/or responsibility.
Imagine a panic attack that doesn’t go away because the time you have left is measured in days, weeks, or maybe months, you know it, and there is nothing you can do to address a lifetime of regret, which intensifies the panic.
Usually the best that can be done at that point is “comfort care,” which is drugs. And I would just see them cry, fade, cry, fade, cry, fade, and then die alone. It’s horrifying to see, and it sticks with you.
Life isn’t a movie or game, and no one is the main character.
Yeah, experiencing that is a horror I wouldn’t wish on anyone. That’s a true nightmare.
I don’t think having kids of my own is in my future, I hope I can live my life with enough intent and purpose to avoid this date. Thank you both for this thread, it’s gotten me thinking.
