So I just discovered that I have been working next to the waste of oxygen that raped my best friend several years ago. I work in a manufacturing environment and I know that you can’t fire someone just for being a sex offender unless it directly interferes with work duties (in the US). But despite it being a primarily male workforce he does work with several women who have no idea what he is. He literally followed a woman home, broke into her house, and raped her. Him working here puts every female employee at risk. How is that not an unsafe working environment? How is it at even legal to employ him anywhere where he will have contact with women?
I respectfully disagree. Murder is not at the same level as rape. Rape is awful and despicable, but at least you’re alive to recover from it.
That’s the thing, many people never recover from rape.
I think more people don’t recover from death compared to rape
I’m not arguing that lol. But many people would literally rather be killed than raped and it’s frequently cited as one of the things, “worse than death”.
It should absolutely be punished similarly.
That sounds like a great way to make all rapists murderers.
No. There’s a psychological barrier to killing, even in the mind of a criminal. That’s why most murders are actually people who knew each other and had enough emotion to overcome that barrier or people who were scared/abused enough that the barrier was no longer there. (It goes away as a defense mechanism)
That sounds like a blatant threat and attempt at emotional blackmail
Many is not anywhere near all.
That is an option for the victim in a rape still, there is no option for the victim in a murder.
But it is possible to recover, and many do. There is no recovery from being murdered. Personally, I’m glad I’m still alive even if I’m still dealing with my own SA-induced trauma 20 years later.
Murder also has further externalities. When you kill someone, you take them away from their friends and families, who now have to live forever without that person in their lives.
But this whole conversation feels a lot like we’re asking “who was worse, Hitler or Genghis Khan?”, and it’s weird to put either side on the defensive even if there is an objectively true answer to be found.
Yes, but statistically speaking the amount of people who recover from murder (being around 0 to 1, depending on if the Resurrection of Christ is a factual event or mere myth) is a tad lower than people who recover from rape induced trauma…
There is no reason why rape is judged much less severely than torture though.
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I think this attitude where some traumatic event ruins people for life is toxic. Trauma is part of life. People can move on and have fulfilling lives.
And so therefore a rape victim should just put up with rape and move on. They’re still alive so it doesn’t matter, and their rapist should be able to live with no consequences.
By your twisted logic, you can justify doing anything to anyone as long as you don’t kill them. Rape does affect everyone for life, especially the ones who have claimed they moved on from it.
What makes you think someone won’t turn around and use your own reasoning to justify doing something to you?
“Trauma is part of life”? Murder and dieing is also part of life. Sorry, but that just doesn’t make sense. Trauma in a clinical sense is certainly not “part of life”.
They’re rape apologists. Everything they’ve been doing is part of a framework of Motte and Baileys they have constructed to justify and defend rape, and rapists.
Notice they’re talking about the nature of trauma in life when this is actually a thread about OP dealing with a known sexual predator at work? How they have been talking about redemption, punishment, and the death penalty when NONE of those things are even tangentially related to OP? That is purposeful and intentional.
They derail threads like this, where there are clear-cut cases to hold someone accountable, because they oppose accountability on a moral level.
They do it because they’re rape apologists.
Life is traumatic. Everyone will go through difficult periods. Your parents will die. Friends will kill themselves. You will be in serious car accidents. You will be assaulted and robbed. You’ll leave your kids in the backseat on a hot day and you’ll fall and hit your head on the concrete in a weird way that causes paralysis.
This is unavoidable. Life is full of these types of events and while you certainly won’t get to experience all of them you are bound to experience some.
Lacan says when your subjective perspective on life is shattered, you’ve felt “the Real” up close. This is traumatic- your psyche breaks and you need time to heal these cracks. They’ll never be quite the same.
Let’s say I’m a young professional woman. I take a self defense class and have a good job and a nice boyfriend. I have a set of beliefs about the world. For example, most people are good. I have bodily autonomy. I am strong and can defend myself.
Then one night a male stranger pulls me into a dark alley, beats the shit out of me and raped me. All of a sudden, it turns out not everyone is good. I cannot defend myself effectively against a male and he can totally take away my bodily autonomy.
All these beliefs shattered- I have experienced trauma. As Ben Finegold would say- the truth hurts.
It doesn’t have to be so dramatic. Any event can shatter these beliefs. I could get a D on the essay I spent so hard working on. I thought I was a straight A intelligent student… but then when I put my heart into something, I fail.
Belief shattered - maybe I’m not so smart. Trauma. Different scales, same phenomenon.
Tldr: yes, trauma is inherent to life. It’s part of our psyche.
And that means we all should tolerate rape. Or violence, or even attempted murder. After all, the arbitrary line of not being dead is the only one that matters and who gives a fuck about our quality of life while we’re still alive? And it’s all the victim’s responsibility because rape is a normal, immutable part of life and we have to accept it. How convenient that you, the rape apologists, benefit while we suffer.
You can justify doing anything to anyone under that logic.
Also it falls apart because many rape victims commit suicide anyway, so this is a particularly disgusting rape apologist talking point. 🤦🤦🤦
Jesus Christ, Lemmy. What the actual fuck is wrong with you as a platform?
Nobody is advocating for tolerating rape. If you have nothing to respond with, don’t make up some wild claims. Makes you seem like a crazy person, when I think it’s really just you realize you’re spewing nonsense and have no reasonable argument against what anyone is saying.
Oh lmfao
If you’re going to lie to my face, you could at least try to be subtle about it. At least motte & bailey yourself like a decent rape apologist knows how to do.
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I can’t send a corpse to therapy for any amount of time that’s long enough for them to recover from being dead, I can say differently about being traumatized…
And honestly as someone who’s used therapy to recover from trauma, I find the idea that “It would unquestionably be better if you were murdered instead” to be so absurdly offensive and dismissive, as if anything of value to me and my continued existence is suddenly moot because I’ve become “Damaged Goods”
Seeing Murder as preferable to Rape is a highly misogynistic way of thinking that draws too much from patriarchal standards about a woman’s worth.
Murder, for the victim, by definition, is not a traumatic event.
Death is always an option, revival generally isn’t.
What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
You are advocating a known sexual predator be allowed in the workplace, knowing other employees are threatened by his presence.
The company isn’t responsible for ensuring the rapist – who is not supposed to be in society in the first place – is able to put food on the table. It is the company’s responsibility to protect its workers in th workplace, and that means not letting a known rapist work around women.
Honestly, those women could probably go complain to the EEOC. They certainly could win a civil suit.
What you’re asking for is horrific and a blatant violation of the rights of other people. We don’t live under the barbaric practices of the 20th century where anything like this can just be done to you and you have to put up with it. We live in the 21st century where we recognize the rights of victims and communities are more important.
Don’t like it? Do what you’re telling rape victims to do: get over it and move on.
Women aren’t the only victims of rape. Clearly he shouldn’t be allowed to work around anyone right? Actually he shouldn’t be allowed to live near anyone who could be at risk either. Actually he shouldn’t be allowed to go near anyone who could be raped. I think the Soviets already tried a prisoner only island and it didn’t work too well.
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I never said they did.
Like?
A lot of fears are valid, but that doesn’t necessarily justify acting on them.
That was true during his prison sentence. Now as much as he disgusts us, he has served his punishment and has his rights again.
What does this have to do with me?
They can quit, they can force the employer to fire him, or they can tolerate it. Fundamentally, there is nothing he can change now to make himself more tolerable to his coworkers, and its not his employers job to punish him again.
How?
Why is this the argument? Why can’t I have the option empathize with someone myself- why does it have to be a surrogate? But my mom was hospitalized 2 years ago after assault by a student who she still works with. Of course its terrifying know that could happen, but that’s why safety measures are put into place at her work place.
Where did I apologize for rape? All I implied was that under the law he had served his time. He is now allowed to exist in society. If you believe in mandatory minimum of a life sentence for rape, that is a debate that can be had. But just like murderers, kidnappers, torturers, terrorists, and other horrific criminals, rapists are sometimes given a chance at freedom again. But you should separate wanting to protect people, and wanting revenge. Wanting revenge is a motive for criminal justice, but don’t try to hide it with an argument about protection and rights.
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