- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Crossposted from https://lemmy.world/post/40642280
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How can you be concerned with fascism accept all genres and sexualities but accept Islam?
Yes, I raised my son to be a far left extremist. He’s nearly 30 and strong enough to cause havoc against a fascist regime.
I am not sorry.
the horror!
Well…the people the right call leftist extremists are generally not leftists are have a tenuous leftist label.
Like…(modern) anarchists are generally apolitical or nihilists…and don’t come from the left at the rates they think they do. The Charlie Kirk shooter is a decent example of what somebody will say is this monolith of leftist extremism that exist in large numbers and is a cohesive group.
Short story long: those who use the label “leftist extremist” (without irony) are basically making a boogy man out of random crazies who they don’t have to ignore because they’re not clearly right wingers.
This isn’t the 70s…they don’t have The Weather Underground and The Black Panthers to scapegoat…so they just make shit up.
anarchists are nearly absolutely leftist. i dont know what youre on about.
Unless he is referring to anarcocapitalists.
fair :) but they werent.
I agree…and It’s why I put modern in brackets…then defined my terms. Don’t stop reading after the thing you disagree with.
Actual anarchists are rare. The people we call anarchists aren’t anarchists….they’re a mishmash of hoodlums, nihilists, anti-fascists, Nazi agitators, etc.
i read the whole thing. the opening line of the second paragraph is just so declarative that it was hard to discern what you meant by any of this. I dont agree that modern anarchists are generally apolitical or nihilists, thats all.
Again…I agree with you.
But I defined my terms…and I’m also correct…because I’m the one who framed the comment. You can be confused…but you can’t disagree lol
I’ll further define them/clarify. I’m not talking about actual anarchists…which don’t exist for the purposes of what I’m saying. I’m talking about anarchists as defined by Donald Trump, for example. The people he’s talking about aren’t actual leftist anarchists…they the Neo Nazi agitators, or the hoodlums that pollute leftist protests etc. They’re the guys from Fight Club. Capiche?
if you werent talking about actual anarchists, then you could have been clear in saying as much. anyway, good day.
The very first thing I said was “the people who the right call anarchists”.
This was a very Reddit-like exchange. Nostalgia.
Are you talking about the definition of no rules and pure chaos associated with misfits and punks? Back in the 80s there was a whole genre of anarchist music that exemplified actual anarchistic political ideology. There was always a vein of actual anarchists around if looked around a bit.
I was there…I’ve always “caucused” with anarchists.
I’m not talking about actual anarchists…I’m talking about the people who the right label as anarchists…ie the people who don’t know what anarchy is and think it’s chaos and destruction and nihilism.
accepting of all religions
I’m not if said religion involves “removal of rights to others” and “dismantling democracy”. And no, I don’t care if they’re “not real christians”.
The thought of other people living a good life. I just… I can’t. It’s just too horrible.
Oh noes!
Every item on the list, I have.
I must be one of those dangerous violent extremists the TV warns us about! :O
The woke mind virus claims another victim. Truly tragic to see so much empathy.
…when their propaganda talking points started unironically referencing “the sin of empathy” they crossed the line into balls-out cartoon fascism…
You and your Auntie Fa!
Since they put hammer and sickle (the symbol of communism ) I would argue the acceptance of sexual orientations, religions, genders, races etc was also a problem there. It is liberalism that accepts it.
The claim about everyone being treated equally is also not completely true. I mean, in theory, yes, in practice whenever communism (especialy the one exported from USSR) was implemented some people were “more equal” than others.
Not my left.
I would argue the acceptance of sexual orientations, religions, genders, races etc was also a problem there
Cuba reformed its constitution in 2019 to boost queer rights, and in July approved that people can change their gender legally just by personal request.
Sure, some socialist states of the last century were backwards in that regard, like the USSR, but you gotta keep in mind that in 1930 80% of the country were literally uneducated peasants who worked the land with their own hands.
“Oh no, my child wants dignity for all! Better send them to Guantanashwitz”
Random parent having a child with a soul, circa 2030
Once upon a time, this “political extremism“ used to just simply be called “being a decent human being“. How far we’ve fallen.
- Expresses concern over the treatment of marginalized groups
- Accepting of all sexualities, religions, genders, races, etc.
No I don’t want to be brigaded by tankies going “akshually…” with how much worse capitalism is followed by links and excerpts from Trotsky or whatever. Just accept my message that communism can also suck under a tyrannical government (like the one the US has), give me your downvote and move on.
contrarian red scare comments are rarely easy to follow
I’m a social democrat who’s aware of what happens when too much power gets concentrated on just a few people. Whether it’s the Soviet Union under Stalin or Trump’s regime they both suck. Miss me with that “red scare” crap.
im the one who said miss me with that red scare crap. i called dibs.
There is no more satire.
This could also be ‘Is your child a true christian?’
The symbol has nothing to do with what’s on the list.
It’s a symbol of hate, suffering and oppression.
(crossposted from lemmy.ml, btw)
Disagree. Also pointing out it came from lemmy.ml - it’s getting tiring.
It’s also very appropriate for the meme given it speaks to the red scare propaganda peddled in the US.
I’m sorry you’re tired, but a lot of newer users aren’t aware.
I don’t think it’s appropriate anywhere, aside from historical contexts. Especially next to “positive” things that have little to no relation to it.
Sorry I didn’t see you’re an anti-communist. Your view makes perfect sense now. Thanks for the honesty!
Mainly, anti-USSR and USSR-adjacent.
You’re very welcome!
the symbol has nothing to do with anything on the list
Meanwhile USSR:
“Expresses concern for the poor” lowers inequality to the lowest levels in the region
“Expresses concern for the treatment of marginalized groups” women suffrage since 1917, massive literacy campaigns regardless of ethnicity or gender
“Expresses concern over the rise of fascism” defeats Nazism in Europe saving tens of millions of lives
“Takes an interest in history and philosophy” makes education free to the highest level for everyone, including maintenance wages to university students, and promotes education among adult workers with night programs and in-factory volunteers and after-work programs
“Wishes for a world where all are treated equally” collaborates with the decolonization of Africa, South America and Asia without engaging in colonialism
Oh wow, even a graph? Amazing. Lmao.
Thanks, you’re tagged.
Not sure what you mean by tagged, but you’re welcome for the graph.
Here, fixed it. No sarcasm.
Thanks! I just had a problem with the sign. The idea of the post is fun and I see the humour in it.
I just think the sign is put there in bad faith, as .ml are known for revisionism.
Holding on to burned iconography doesn’t help any exploited working class. Visually very naff, though.
This is my take on it:
I think shifting away from the symbol is important, as there are many negatives associated with it.
Mainly all the negatives perceptions of the USSR and those rapidly overtake the positives that are being reinforced by the rest of the “meme”.
You forgot “unconditionally supports russian imperialism and repeats its propaganda incessently” … wait, this isn’t lemmy.ml 🫠
That prompts an interesting question: Is there a symbol for international communism that’s recognizable to the general public?
The hammer and sickle, no? The British communist party uses it to this day, at least
The initialism there is more unfortunate than the symbol.
Yeah, I don’t like how it excludes potential allies or how it’s focused on suddenly achieving its end state more than the idea that constructive change is an incremental, continuous process. How about, “Communists and Socialists for Advancement in Moderation?”
They should form an alliance with the Party for Elevating Democratic Objectives
That must be the closest thing. It’s absent on communist/socialist national flags, but most of their dominant parties seem to use it.
I don’t think there is a single one, but there are definitely styles that make you think it. Red themes, tools and machinery, fists in the air, etc.
This one of my favorites for Fully Automated Luxury Gay/Queer Space Communism. I doubt how widely it’s known, though.
Wow, what a… memorable flag. Are these scythes with other scythes as a handle ? doubling as Saturn and its moons ?
Yeah, it’s definitely a reference to the hammer and sickle symbol. I think it’s either the Earth, the Moon and Mars or else non-specific planets and/or moons. I had to zoom in to take a closer look:
Oh, now I see it bigger… Is that Bezos’s cock rocket?
PS,
We never needed rockets.
Follow the tech arc from Michael Faraday through to Nikola Tesla, passing by at least the Sonora Aero Club (and Charles Dellschau’s 1850 drawings) and the german bell and foo-fighters, and you shall see… we never needed rockets. What wonders developed since. Zero inertia propulsion, zero-point energy, can print another of itself instantly, safe enough for a 2 year old to fly home safely in, able to sustain human life indefinitely… but sure, lets keep pretending like space is hard to do, and that rockets are the best we can do it by. XD
Like the raised fist, that would be sucked up by the fascists in a split second.
Good point. That North American dictator has been working on it for a while
I’m sure some commenters on the .ml crosspost will have pointed that out 😉
(Just took a look - of course people who say that Stalinism was bad will get downvoted, same same)
Nobody should be lectured on propaganda by North American and European social democrats who infest Lemmy and spread propaganda to a much higher degree across most instances and communities.
It is clear that russian propaganda is the best propaganda. pats you on the head
Calling out hypocrisy is not the same as supporting the alternative. Two things can be wrong at the same time.
To put it in simple terms: Russian Imperial propaganda is bad but American Imperial neoliberal propaganda isn’t any better just because they are at odds.
The whole “stones thrown from glass houses” thing.
Correct, you understood my point perfectly.
As an anti-imperialist, I get that kind of rebuttal A LOT. People cannot stand it when you bring light that all empires of the modern day got to their heights by being the most politically and socially manipulative parasites this world has ever seen.
Name today’s empires please
US, UK, France, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Russia, China, etc… any and all nations which exert extensive global influence through economic, military, or political power.
Are you just ignorant of how the global north has, for the last centuries, been exploiting the global south? Are you ignorant of neocolonial economic dynamics that Nordic countries exploit to fuel their capitalist social democracy? Are you just ignorant of the fact many African nations still have to pay colonial taxes to France? Just because they stopped officially attributing the label of “empire” to themselves doesn’t mean they stopped being Imperialist nations. They still all heavily benefit from their colonial past, the only thing that changed was the labels and structures to be less direct so they can claim the benefit of the doubt.
social democrats
They have a better claim to leftism & socialism than the illiberal leftists & left-wing authoritarians who manifest inherently unequal, oppressive concentrations of authority & political power.
who manifest inherently unequal, oppressive concentrations of authority & political power.
Capitalism! (Which socdems completely support)
That’s a weird spelling for authoritarianism.
Social democrats support mixed economies with social safety nets.
Economic indexes show liberal democracies in Europe, Canada, East Asia, Australia including social democracies beat communist states (North Korea, China, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba) in lower economic inequality in terms of wealth & income. North Korea comes close, and that state overspends on military instead of lifting people out of poverty, thus allowing famines & food shortages to stunt growth & shorten life expectances by 12 years compared to their South Korean neighbors.
Both in principle & practice, non-authoritarian or liberal leftism beats left-wing authoritarianism. Left-wing authoritarianism is a bankrupt contradiction lacking legitimate claims to the central tenet of leftism of promoting equality. Such philosophies & governments don’t serve the people, they serve an exclusive, repressive regime of political party elites.
Your source is an institution primarily funded by EU state apparatus, as shown on their on website. No shit they determined that some EU countries have less inequality than some socialist countries.
The problem in the methodology for comparing inequality in socialist countries vs capitalist countries comes from a few main factors:
-
More developed countries (as in higher GDP per capita) have less inequality than less developed countries. Communism has mostly spawned in post-colonial countries which have had only 70 years at best to develop and industrialize, compared to the 200 years of many western nations. A fairer comparison would be with countries of similar levels of development or similar starting points before socialism was implemented, for example comparing Cuba with Haiti or China with India.
-
Capitalist countries mainly provide access to goods and services through income/wealth, whereas socialist countries provide access to such things additionally through other methods. For example, if the economically poor (income + wealth) population in a socialist country are given housing for free or very cheap, universal access to healthcare and education, direct food aid either by state or community means, access to land for growing their food, good quality public transit systems, or access to sports and cultural facilities, this won’t appear as a form of income or wealth for the poorer percentiles.
The whole thing can be disproven by measuring actual outcomes at equal levels of development instead of measuring equality by means of income or wealth. Scientific studies measuring quality of life metrics instead of wealth or income have reached the conclusion that socialist countries provide better life outcomes at equal level of development compared to capitalist countries. If inequality truly was higher in socialist countries than in capitalist ones, we would expect worse life metrics, not better ones.
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Capitalism is authoritarianism.
Not even close: political systems (governance of people & their actions) aren’t economic system (goods & services), and authoritarianism is a political system.
Not even arguing about capitalism: left-wing authoritarianism is still everything I wrote regardless of capitalism. Those liberal democracies I mentioned still in principle limit authority of governments unlike those regimes whose shitty philosophies lack any such scruples: authoritarian philosophies authorize unlimited government power to repress universal rights & liberties. A non-exhaustive list of authorized abuses: the Soviets had their great purges; the Chinese communist party punishes generals for refusing to mass murder civilians, suppresses discussion of times they’ve sent tanks against civilians, persecutes the Uyghurs & Falun Gong, & represses the freedoms of its LGBT+ population to express themselves & form establishments on- & off-line to meet. These actions aren’t backslides from their philosophy.
When liberal democratic governments commit human rights abuses, their philosophy at least recognizes them as illegitimate backslides from that philosophy, and on recovery the people may freely try to hold their governments accountable as they freely condemn such injustices.
However, let’s appreciate the hypocrisy of your position. You’re posting your criticism of capitalism on a online system created in the free world, and you’re benefitting from the freedom to express yourself respected by your government, likely a liberal democracy with some form of mixed economy that includes capitalism. No government authority is shutting you down. We couldn’t safely claim the same if you criticized your government’s economic system from a state run by a left-wing authoritarian regime.
Even supposing capitalism is authoritarian in some way, it’s not the government. Left-wing authoritarianism purports to fight oppression by becoming (causing and perpetuating) oppression. Left-wing authoritarians replace their economic elites with political elites only unlike before, these elites can now run wild with unrestricted government authority to terrorize the masses: they claim that’s progress.
European Social Democrats spreading propaganda? I’ve seen a lot of europeans talking about how life in central / northern europe differs from what happens in other parts of the world, but i wouldn’t call that propaganda, just sharing experience. And it’s only that you read more of us because the .ml instances and hexbear are the most defederated sites outside of instances with illegal content.
Oh, in your history books the Soviet Union does still exist. Tell me more!
You missed the joke, I guess.
edit: No need to downvote the guy
It looks like it still exists for Lavrov too
