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More than 110 Palestinian prisoners have died from torture and mistreatment since Itamar Ben-Gvir became Israel’s security minister. Now he wants the power to hang them.
More than 110 Palestinian prisoners have died from torture and mistreatment since Itamar Ben-Gvir became Israel’s security minister. Now he wants the power to hang them.
It’s time we stopped pretending that Israel was a little pocket of Europe and recognize that it’s a brutal theocratic regime. The biggest difference between Israel and States like Saudi Arabia and Iran is the branding.
I stopped. I was very pro Israel back in the day. Even said “well Israel wants to divide the country while hamas wants all Jews dead… I have to side with the Jews”
But then they did a genocide and it’s like “well there goes that theory”
No one likes to be wrong but what’s worse is continuing to be wrong after you know.
I don’t know the solution but I’ve changed my mind on the problem.
The secret is Israel was always doing a genocide.
Always is very broad term. I can tell you during ww2 they were not genocideing Palestine.
I agree that this was ramping up for longer than I knew but using words like “always” only hurts the cause .
That’s only if you stop the WW2 timeline abruptly and not include the Nakba where’s Jews “removed” 750k Palestians off their land.
The regional rain changes during the late 1400s tho! Let’s talk about the crusades. What about this night doing that thing 1500 years ago.
I have my line. Respect it.
1500 years, and 2 years is a huge difference though, especially when it involved the exact same people, not ancestors or promise land people from a book written 4000 years ago.
You’re right. I’ll go back to siding with Israel. You win brother. You changed my mind.
You ever consider leaving well enough alone?
Congrats on reaching the middle ground, but this one is so far away from “complicated”
You are so close. Why stop half way there. Look into the founding of Israel. It was always colonial and Zionist. Jews lived in Palestine before Israel. Peacefully with their Palestinian neighbors. The middle east wasn’t even the first place the UK and USA were looking to relocate the Jews to.
For a time they were looking to the jungles of South America. But the Zionists wouldn’t have it. Hijacking the process and demanding Palestine. After what happened to the Jewish people as a whole. (Though not most of the wealthy Zionists demanding Palestine. As they all fled with their families early.) There was a lot of sympathy collectively. And for many reasons the UK and allies finally caved on Palestine. So instead of moving and integrating with the local peoples and culture. They came rolling up with the aid of two large bullies to steal the land from under the people living in it. Day one minute one.
That isn’t to say that this was all or is all the people living in Israel. Just the leadership the whole time.
That was us not Israel. It was us saying “we want them freed… but don’t send them here!”
It’s complicated. That’s why say I don’t know what’s “right “ but I can tell what’s “wrong”
What’s going on now is wrong. I don’t think it’s fair to just say “the other guys are right, give it to them”
It’s complicated. But we all agree what is happening right now is wrong. That’s our common ground.
Israel used to be a lush forest. The further back you go the more complicated it gets.
We can agree “right now… this is wrong!”
It was “only” displacement, colonization, and (smaller) ethnic cleansing at that time
Edit: here’s a list of bombings by the Irgun, a Zionist militia and terrorist organization (who were eventually folded into the IDF) during (and after) WW2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks
Hers a list of mammoths migration patterns that sparked a resource war with Neanderthals.
I’m sure you are technically correct but that isn’t most people “starting point”
There’s only so far back you can go before people labor it non important
Edit: not important to current events. Not saying it wasn’t horrible
My point is 2000 years ago that was undisputed “Israel “ how far back are we going before we have to admit “that doesn’t matter for this discussion “
Not important to current events? Explain to me how groups that were merged together to form the IDF, and were fighting to create Israel is unimportant to Israel and its current actions and existence.
From the very beginning of Zionist migration to Palestine (the historic region, whether it was under Ottoman rule or British rule), it was colonial, and intended to remove the people currently living there. You can read it from Theodore Herzl, and Ze’ev Jabotinsky. Some of the first and very prominent Zionists. David Ben-Gurion,the first prime minister of Israel himself, in a letter to his son basically said the partition plan was just the first step to taking the entire land.
Without that ideology and attitude, we wouldn’t be where we are now.
I already explained.
“If we look at migration paths of mammoths we can see…” you have to draw the line somewhere. It’s complicated.
You have something that shows it was this groups fault? Great a few years before that it was someone else’s choice.
It’s over 2000 years of history. We have to draw the line somewhere.
It’s not really that complicated.
The “over 2000 years ago” or whatever previous maybe exigent state of Israel has nothing to do with the current one, other than as a religious fig leaf and excuse for Zionism. To quote Ilan Pape: “Most Zionists don’t believe that God exists but they do believe that he promised them Palestine”
You’re the one that brought up WW2 as a time period in the first place. Only to discard the evidence I presented of yes, in fact Zionists (who ended up forming Israel, and Zionism continues to be the basis of Israeli society and politics) were already committing what would/could/should be considered terrorist attacks against Palestinians.
As long as Zionism/Zionists have existed in Palestine, they have existed to displace or kill all Palestinians.
I draw the line at the most logical place: Zionism’s creation/popularization. It is the root cause of all this.
If your argument is that an entity that didn’t exist wasn’t able to do a thing, so “always” didn’t apply, it’s a stupid argument not worth bringing up
You have a stupid argument not worth mentioning. But I’ll indulge you.
My argument is history is written by the victors and it’s over 2000 years of complications. I don’t care to hear about what 100 years ago. It’s not on the table.
What I will say is you’re arguing with someone who’s already on your side about complicated past stuff and making me feel bad for not knowing.
Fine you win. I’m back to supporting Israel. I was on your side but wasn’t educated enough so now I’m supporting Israel again. Good job.
Let’s talk about Pangea?
Doubling down doesn’t help you here.
Double down? No im reversing course.
Your different accounts haven’t explained why I’m in your hotseat for agreeing with you?
The negative votes don’t matter to me because I know where they come from.
Say something valid or leave bot man.
Fuck you. I’m back to pro Israel because you needed to run your mouth. Good job bot boy.
You drastically overestimate your power here lol
What a whiny child. Holy shit.
Also the tremendous amounts of resources.
Israel hardly has any natural resources. They get a huge amount of outside money and material support. Most of their GDP is from manufacturing, especially computer and medical equipment, and software. But their #1 export is cut diamonds apparently, TIL.