I don’t see how those two are related at all and honestly treating them as interchangeable is… cringe.
There is no harm in suggesting you thought someone was gay or straight, especially because sexuality has nothing to do with outward appearance and can be kinda nebulous to infer at all. If you’re not comfortable with the idea of being lgbt+, how are you an ally? Nothing differentiates a gay man from a straight one, outside of attraction to other men.
Whereas so much of trans struggles and validity relate to how they’re/we’re perceived. Do I pass enough to shit in the restroom that conforms to my identity?
So you think there isn’t a lot of extremely toxic male culture that will make men feel invalid for not being perceived as straight? Because that shits everywhere. It’s perfectly normal to struggle with that, feeling insecure about your self image has nothing to do with your support of others.
And insecurities can come from very personal things and no one should be judged for them. Lying about how you perceived someone as a “test” is toxic as fuck.
So you think the amount of toxic male culture making men feel invalid for not being masculine enough is comparable the current level of toxicity, discrimination and legal persecution that is making trans people feel invalid ?
I also explicitly, at several occasions and in several comments pointed out that I fully agree that it’s toxic and dick move to call straight people gay as some kind of test, so the fact that everyone repeatedly keeps arguing against me with a position that I’ve literally explicitly agreed with several times, sure seems very indicative of you guys not actually bothering to read or understand my comments.
My sole argument has been not that it’s fine to call straight people gay, merely that whilst being toxic, it’s not remotely comparable to the level of toxicity of deliberately misgendering a trans person, and it’s demeaning and disrespectful towards the very real struggles of trans people to compare the two to each other.
Despite dozens of downvotes and replies, literally not a single person has yet replied to, countered, or even acknowledged this explicitly stated stance of mine. All the replies and downvotes are coming from the POV of me supposedly having said that it’s perfectly fine and acceptable to call straight people gay.
I disagree about it not being remotely comparable. There’s little doubt that on average it’s gonna be far worse to misgender a transperson in that way (though “i thought you were x when i first met you” isn’t really misgendering either since it’s explicitly saying they’re not that, but w/e we all know what we’re talking about here) since there’s a very high chance they have some degree of trauma associated with it.
But I think in individual cases the “i thought you were gay” can be just as bad, so I do think it’s entirely comparable. I think it’s important to also think about the worst effect it could have, and it’s such an unnecessary action that both cases are just toxic and never a good thing, so I don’t think there’s a need to rank one as worse than the other. (And ofc both can also be fine if it’s clear everyones comfortable with it, and that’s more likely in the gay case, but hopefully that’s obvious).
So of according to you, if there is a single guy on earth who gets just as upset from being called “doofus” as a black person from being called the N-Word, that in your mind makes calling someone a doofus and calling a black person the N-Word comparable ?
Did you skip over the part of it being completely unnecessary? Insults are a part of human communication, you can’t just erase them, so of course it makes sense to classify some as worse than others. It’s a fundamental part of insults even.
You literally just argued, verbatim, that because being called gay in isolated cases can be just as bad as a trans person being misgendered, that makes deliberately misgendering and calling someone gay comparable.
That was your verbatim argument. And you’ve suddenly moved the goal posts to “of course it makes sense to classify some as worse than others”
I don’t think there’s a need to rank one as worse than the other
And then literally one comment later
Of course it makes sense to classify some as worse than others
Goalposts moving more than the ball here. If you can’t be fucked to engage with my points honestly, then just say that, instead of this intellectually dishonest goal post moving you keep doing.
As someone agender this entire thread is wild to me. I accept any gender, any pronouns, and do not care how people percieve me. None of this seems offensive to me, whether people thought i was trans or gay or whatever. Pretty sure the offense is mostly just whether offense was intended.
Pretty sure the offense is mostly just whether offense was intended.
I couldn’t quite put my finger on it, but since I read this sentence I understand why I dislike this suggestion. Saying something to your friend to see if they’ll be uncomfortable is intending offense, imo. You should be kind to your friends and not give them shit tests, or else just don’t be friends with them anymore. It honestly feels like OOP is suggesting your straight friend isn’t really your friend, but a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
The premise of this post of an openly gay person talking to their straight friend/acquaintance. Pretty sure it’s fairly safe to assume that this isn’t set in Uganda or Saudi Arabia. And even in the deepest fucking south of the USA, no straight person is getting hate crimed because one time their gay friend called them gay as a stupid bit.
Pretending this is relevant to the discussion is disengenous.
I don’t see how those two are related at all and honestly treating them as interchangeable is… cringe.
There is no harm in suggesting you thought someone was gay or straight, especially because sexuality has nothing to do with outward appearance and can be kinda nebulous to infer at all. If you’re not comfortable with the idea of being lgbt+, how are you an ally? Nothing differentiates a gay man from a straight one, outside of attraction to other men.
Whereas so much of trans struggles and validity relate to how they’re/we’re perceived. Do I pass enough to shit in the restroom that conforms to my identity?
So you think there isn’t a lot of extremely toxic male culture that will make men feel invalid for not being perceived as straight? Because that shits everywhere. It’s perfectly normal to struggle with that, feeling insecure about your self image has nothing to do with your support of others.
And insecurities can come from very personal things and no one should be judged for them. Lying about how you perceived someone as a “test” is toxic as fuck.
Yeah, it’s bad to ask if your friends are comfortable being viewed as gay because they might have insecurities from toxic masculinity 🙄🙄🙄
So you think the amount of toxic male culture making men feel invalid for not being masculine enough is comparable the current level of toxicity, discrimination and legal persecution that is making trans people feel invalid ?
I also explicitly, at several occasions and in several comments pointed out that I fully agree that it’s toxic and dick move to call straight people gay as some kind of test, so the fact that everyone repeatedly keeps arguing against me with a position that I’ve literally explicitly agreed with several times, sure seems very indicative of you guys not actually bothering to read or understand my comments.
My sole argument has been not that it’s fine to call straight people gay, merely that whilst being toxic, it’s not remotely comparable to the level of toxicity of deliberately misgendering a trans person, and it’s demeaning and disrespectful towards the very real struggles of trans people to compare the two to each other.
Despite dozens of downvotes and replies, literally not a single person has yet replied to, countered, or even acknowledged this explicitly stated stance of mine. All the replies and downvotes are coming from the POV of me supposedly having said that it’s perfectly fine and acceptable to call straight people gay.
I disagree about it not being remotely comparable. There’s little doubt that on average it’s gonna be far worse to misgender a transperson in that way (though “i thought you were x when i first met you” isn’t really misgendering either since it’s explicitly saying they’re not that, but w/e we all know what we’re talking about here) since there’s a very high chance they have some degree of trauma associated with it.
But I think in individual cases the “i thought you were gay” can be just as bad, so I do think it’s entirely comparable. I think it’s important to also think about the worst effect it could have, and it’s such an unnecessary action that both cases are just toxic and never a good thing, so I don’t think there’s a need to rank one as worse than the other. (And ofc both can also be fine if it’s clear everyones comfortable with it, and that’s more likely in the gay case, but hopefully that’s obvious).
So of according to you, if there is a single guy on earth who gets just as upset from being called “doofus” as a black person from being called the N-Word, that in your mind makes calling someone a doofus and calling a black person the N-Word comparable ?
Did you skip over the part of it being completely unnecessary? Insults are a part of human communication, you can’t just erase them, so of course it makes sense to classify some as worse than others. It’s a fundamental part of insults even.
You literally just argued, verbatim, that because being called gay in isolated cases can be just as bad as a trans person being misgendered, that makes deliberately misgendering and calling someone gay comparable.
That was your verbatim argument. And you’ve suddenly moved the goal posts to “of course it makes sense to classify some as worse than others”
Yea ok reading comprehension is just a losy cause with you lmao
Oh and also
And then literally one comment later
Goalposts moving more than the ball here. If you can’t be fucked to engage with my points honestly, then just say that, instead of this intellectually dishonest goal post moving you keep doing.
Literally. Verbatim. Who do you think you’re kidding here dude ?
As someone agender this entire thread is wild to me. I accept any gender, any pronouns, and do not care how people percieve me. None of this seems offensive to me, whether people thought i was trans or gay or whatever. Pretty sure the offense is mostly just whether offense was intended.
I couldn’t quite put my finger on it, but since I read this sentence I understand why I dislike this suggestion. Saying something to your friend to see if they’ll be uncomfortable is intending offense, imo. You should be kind to your friends and not give them shit tests, or else just don’t be friends with them anymore. It honestly feels like OOP is suggesting your straight friend isn’t really your friend, but a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
What do you mean there’s no harm? People still get killed for being gay, yeah?
The premise of this post of an openly gay person talking to their straight friend/acquaintance. Pretty sure it’s fairly safe to assume that this isn’t set in Uganda or Saudi Arabia. And even in the deepest fucking south of the USA, no straight person is getting hate crimed because one time their gay friend called them gay as a stupid bit.
Pretending this is relevant to the discussion is disengenous.
Irrelevant to the discussion at hand