Because that’s not how it was ever intended to be read. Look at it from a different perspective.
When quoting a tweet, it’s laid out like an email. Responses are at the top of the email, not the bottom. You go down as you go back through the email chain. The bottom one is the first one. It’s not laid out for sharing a screenshot of a conversation, because that was never the intended use case of the layout.
From that perspective, the layout makes complete sense, and it works perfectly for its intended use. Posting random screenshot out of context to social media was not a consideration.
When quoting a tweet, it’s laid out like an email. Responses are at the top of the email, not the bottom. You go down as you go back through the email chain. The bottom one is the first one. It’s not laid out for sharing a screenshot of a conversation, because that was never the intended use case of the layout.
It fucking sucks for emails too. I can’t tell you the vicious hatred quote-after (a.k.a. top-posting) causes in everyone who actually uses emails for work. Quotes in emails are supposed to be interleaved with the text you are writing: quote part of an email, respond to it, repeat. Just like here on Lemmy or any other messenger or forum. If you look at places where email is actually used for work (like software development mailing lists), this is how it is used still to this day. Worst-case, if you’re lazy but feel the need to add a quote, add it before, so that I see the context before I read your reply. But most likely if you’re doing that, you don’t need the quote at all.
Quote-at-the-end is just a pointless waste of resources imposed on us, mostly by Microsoft and Google. If after reading your email I wanted to read the rest of the thread, I would read the rest of the thread, I have a god damn email client!
From that perspective, the layout makes complete sense, and it works perfectly for its intended use.
No it doesn’t, even a lazy quote-entire-thing-at-the-top would work better, because it provides context before I read the reply. This is just how most western languages work, they are read top-to-bottom. Imagine if a book had its chapters ordered in reverse order!
Thats a lot of words to try and justify not understanding that’s how 99% of people use email.
It’s the default way hitting reply basically everywhere formats a response email. It’s also the way email responses to automated ticketing systems like zendesk tell you to respond, literal instructions at the top of their email saying “please type your reply above this line”.
So that’s what people do. Your preference is nothing compared to 99% of user expectations.
It’s not user expectations, It’s just a default behavior imposed by some mail clients, because engineers wanted to add auto-quotes, but a quote-before would require people to actually think while writing an email. It would be better to just not quote at all, but it is what it is now. If the default behavior switched to no-quote, no-one would notice, because nobody looks at those things anyways.
If you use a software development mailing list and do quote-after, chances are you will be told to stop that. If someone has to actually read and understand your emails in full, instead of skimming them for the one line of info they need, quote-after is not a feasible way to write them.
Advocating for the status quo just because it is the status quo is no argument.
sent from my thinkpad
halcyoncmdr:
Thats a lot of words to try and justify not understanding that’s how 99% of people use email.
It’s the default way hitting reply basically everywhere formats a response email. It’s also the way email responses to automated ticketing systems like zendesk tell you to respond, literal instructions at the top of their email saying “please type your reply above this line”.
So that’s what people do. Your preference is nothing compared to 99% of user expectations.
balsoft:
It fucking sucks for emails too. I can’t tell you the vicious hatred quote-after causes in everyone who actually uses emails for work. Quotes in emails are supposed to be interleaved with the text you are writing: quote part of an email, respond to it, repeat. Just like here on Lemmy or any other messenger or forum. If you look at places where email is actually used for work (like software development mailing lists), this is how it is used still to this day. Worst-case, if you’re lazy but feel the need to add a quote, add it before, so that I see the context before I read your reply. But most likely if you’re doing that, you don’t need the quote at all.
Quote-at-the-end is just a pointless waste of resources imposed on us, mostly by Google. If after reading your email I wanted to read the rest of the thread, I would read the rest of the thread, I have a god damn email client!
halcyoncmdr:
Because that’s not how it was ever intended to be read. Look at it from a different perspective.
When quoting a tweet, it’s laid out like an email. Responses are at the top of the email, not the bottom. You go down as you go back through the email chain. The bottom one is the first one. It’s not laid out for sharing a screenshot of a conversation, because that was never the intended use case of the layout.
From that perspective, the layout makes complete sense, and it works perfectly for its intended use. Posting random screenshot out of context to social media was not a consideration.
rafoix:
Is it so difficult to organize things to be read from top to bottom?
Who the fuck uses mailing lists anymore? It’s 2025.
I bet you still use text-based BBS and IRC too. Probably use Arch too based on the insufferable responses.
Its cool though, your opinion of how it should work is the only one that matters, not the actual reality of how 99% of users do things and how they expect things to work.
Who the fuck uses mailing lists anymore? It’s 2025.
Like half of the software stack for the server you’re writing this on is developed via a mailing list.
Its cool though, your opinion of how it should work is the only one that matters, not the actual reality of how 99% of users do things and how they expect things to work.
As I’ve said, nobody expects quote-after replies. It’s just the default behavior that people pay no attention to. If you disable quotes-after, most email users would not care, since all modern email clients show full email threads anyways.
You’re not grasping the actual conversation here. You’re just arguing about semantics that don’t actually matter, and in the process completely missing the point.
The interface isn’t designed for you. It’s designed for the way 99% of people are familiar with interacting and replying to things.
It’s pretty clear that most people are also familiar with quote-before too. It is how quotes usually work, from textbooks, to forums, to all social media except twitter derivatives. We’re on one such social media right now.
Even on twitter and derivatives, when viewing a reply chain, messages are ordered top-to-bottom, it’s only the quotation that’s the odd one out.
Is it so difficult to organize things to be read from top to bottom?
Yeah Twitter and derivatives do it weird
Because that’s not how it was ever intended to be read. Look at it from a different perspective.
When quoting a tweet, it’s laid out like an email. Responses are at the top of the email, not the bottom. You go down as you go back through the email chain. The bottom one is the first one. It’s not laid out for sharing a screenshot of a conversation, because that was never the intended use case of the layout.
From that perspective, the layout makes complete sense, and it works perfectly for its intended use. Posting random screenshot out of context to social media was not a consideration.
It fucking sucks for emails too. I can’t tell you the vicious hatred quote-after (a.k.a. top-posting) causes in everyone who actually uses emails for work. Quotes in emails are supposed to be interleaved with the text you are writing: quote part of an email, respond to it, repeat. Just like here on Lemmy or any other messenger or forum. If you look at places where email is actually used for work (like software development mailing lists), this is how it is used still to this day. Worst-case, if you’re lazy but feel the need to add a quote, add it before, so that I see the context before I read your reply. But most likely if you’re doing that, you don’t need the quote at all.
Quote-at-the-end is just a pointless waste of resources imposed on us, mostly by Microsoft and Google. If after reading your email I wanted to read the rest of the thread, I would read the rest of the thread, I have a god damn email client!
No it doesn’t, even a lazy quote-entire-thing-at-the-top would work better, because it provides context before I read the reply. This is just how most western languages work, they are read top-to-bottom. Imagine if a book had its chapters ordered in reverse order!
漫画家: (͡•_ ͡• )
Thats a lot of words to try and justify not understanding that’s how 99% of people use email.
It’s the default way hitting reply basically everywhere formats a response email. It’s also the way email responses to automated ticketing systems like zendesk tell you to respond, literal instructions at the top of their email saying “please type your reply above this line”.
So that’s what people do. Your preference is nothing compared to 99% of user expectations.
It’s not user expectations, It’s just a default behavior imposed by some mail clients, because engineers wanted to add auto-quotes, but a quote-before would require people to actually think while writing an email. It would be better to just not quote at all, but it is what it is now. If the default behavior switched to no-quote, no-one would notice, because nobody looks at those things anyways.
If you use a software development mailing list and do quote-after, chances are you will be told to stop that. If someone has to actually read and understand your emails in full, instead of skimming them for the one line of info they need, quote-after is not a feasible way to write them.
Advocating for the status quo just because it is the status quo is no argument.
sent from my thinkpad
Who the fuck uses mailing lists anymore? It’s 2025.
I bet you still use text-based BBS and IRC too. Probably use Arch too based on the insufferable responses.
Its cool though, your opinion of how it should work is the only one that matters, not the actual reality of how 99% of users do things and how they expect things to work.
Like half of the software stack for the server you’re writing this on is developed via a mailing list.
As I’ve said, nobody expects quote-after replies. It’s just the default behavior that people pay no attention to. If you disable quotes-after, most email users would not care, since all modern email clients show full email threads anyways.
You’re not grasping the actual conversation here. You’re just arguing about semantics that don’t actually matter, and in the process completely missing the point.
The interface isn’t designed for you. It’s designed for the way 99% of people are familiar with interacting and replying to things.
It’s pretty clear that most people are also familiar with quote-before too. It is how quotes usually work, from textbooks, to forums, to all social media except twitter derivatives. We’re on one such social media right now.
Even on twitter and derivatives, when viewing a reply chain, messages are ordered top-to-bottom, it’s only the quotation that’s the odd one out.