I think car privacy isn’t talked about amongst any privacy enthusiasts online ever, and it apparently is one of the biggest data collectors out there. For someone like me who values electric cars for there affordability and environmental reasons, but still want physical car buttons and control over my data, how would I go about this?
Buy a bike 😅
Works, but it definitely is not a solution for everyone. There are people who live in areas where it is too far to ride on a bike (and slow) and using public transport takes 2-3 times longer than by car. Especially some areas near cities.
Move then buy a bike.
Volkswagen (VW) had a massive scandal that showed how dangerous this is. By leaking driving behaviour, VW leaked hidden military bases, politicians likely visiting prostitutes and more. Lucky for them ethical hackers (CCC) found that and did not use the data.
Buy an older used ICE and have it converted to electric.
You’re fucked. Best you can do is ride a bike when possible, and keep driving old cars from the mid-2000s or earlier when necessary.
Lotta early 2010s models are also telemetry free but have newer safety systems and probably less miles on them.
Well, my mom’s 2014 golf mk7 doesn’t have telematics. Just look at the specs and buy a car based on it.
Good starting point would be looking up forum or blog posts from people who have disconnected the modem/TCU on a particular EV model. No self-interested auto manufacturer (all of them) would intentionally provide an option in the user interface to take the telemetry system offline. Take note of any side-effects they report, if it needs to be reconnected for inspections, and if there’s any gotchas between software and hardware revisions.
Ah, yes, here come the “just use your old car because EVs are worse for the environment than the Exxon Valdez or something” posts
That is a myth thoroughly debunked by just a little bit of research and data collection into the making and driving of EVs, as that assumption ran off an old study that used guesstimated worst-case scenario numbers and don’t really reflect what the actual numbers are.
If you want to avoid being tracked, you will have to disconnect the data modem somehow - it is part of your radio antenna. If it gets no power, it gets no connection. Either disconnect from the telematics unit, or at the antenna. Also, you can disconnect your telematics unit itself - the “black box” that lives under the dash and records your driving. Some aftermarket makers have “dummy plug” connectors which will trick the car into thinking it is connected. These are often used with aftermarket head units.
Beware that some cars are tracked by your financial lender, and they don’t like it when this happens. Some other cars actually have to be cloud connected once in a while or they stop working - which is the worst thing modern cars can do.
Cars are the problem. I am agnostic to whether the car is powered by steam, diesel, gasoline, or electricity. Tail-pipe emissions are a very small part of the overall pollution from a car.
Prove it’s a myth. I find it really hard to believe me going and purchasing a new car is better then using an already existing car. Manufacturing has a big cost for cars.
Rough math involved: production of a new EV results in between 8-15 tonnes of CO2 emissions, depending on the size of the batteries and vehicle trim.
But let’s aim for somewhere in the middle and take ~12 tonnes as a yardstick.
~12 tonnes of CO2 emissions equates to roughly 1,350 gallons of fuel.
Depending of fuel efficiency, this would equate to between 20k~45k miles.
Feel free to double-check my math in case I did anything wrong, but it does validate that most of these „facts” around EVs are likely FUD spread by fossil fuel aligned sources.
ETA: initially forgot to include CO2 emissions from electricity generation - but this varies wildly based on source (nuclear, hydro & renewables at 0 etc.)
Please use metric for anything scientific
Just to point out that you made the initial argument and commented a view without evidence. Now you ask someone who disagrees to give evidence?
Especially wrt. modern gas-fuelled cars for the typical driver as EV prices are artificially jacked up in many Western countries.
OP didn’t ask about EVs, they asked about modern cars.
Well, actually… Read the post again ;)
- Remove the modem, sometimes called the TCU.
- Buy a Slate truck. It has no connectivity.
E: if you have the disposable funds or the skills you can do an EV conversion.
The sad thing is you paid to get a car with a TCU, then paid a mechnic to remove it. Assuming you’re not a mechnic/hobbist yourself.
It’s good that Mozilla is shaming car companies and shining a spotlight on the issue. Journalists need to ask about tracking and privacy when a new car model comes out. Buyer should ask sellers the same.
Wouldn’t be surprised if it kept all the data internally and then published it to their servers when you go for to a service center or do maintenance.
“Bezos-backed”? There has to be a catch somewhere.
Keeping an eye on it since no other company is offering a similar lack of connectivity, but also not going to be surprised if it doesn’t deliver on its promises.
The catch is it’ll be enshittified as soon as it can.
Alternatively, if you can’t remove the modem, find and remove the antenna. And if you can’t remove the antenna try and surround it with a metal, like aluminum foil.
Gladly, it will be years before I can afford a car that doesn’t respect my privacy.
I don’t really care about car privacy myself.
Where I drive to isn’t really a secret, social events are organized on Discord. And if driving recklessly raises my insurance premiums then that’s deserved. I wouldn’t risk something as expensive as a car with privacy hacks.
“I’ve got nothing to hide”
You should, privacy is a human right which is being stripped away from us.
You’re basically saying I don’t really care about my human rights.
Without privacy, you’re one step closer to an authoritan regime, where mass surveillance helps prevent an uprising of the people against it.
E.g. Russia, where you “accidentally slit your throat while shaving” when you go against Putin.
Then you’re lacking in imagination.
Similar data have outed people’s pregnancies, relationships and locations, which has been used to let people be stalked and even murdered.
Car data can be sold and amalgamated to create a very precise profile of you, available to be purchased by anyone. Anyone with about $100 can purchase access to your daily/weekly schedule, including physical locations, and can easily steal your identity, if not rob or murder you.
Also, foreign propaganda can similarly profile you and hyper target influence campaigns.
To complement the above reply, although you paid a lot for the car, you’re paying even more daily, giving many away to very nasty companies that will turn your investment against you to increase their profit. Your data will be sold and you’re donating money to billionaires.
Is that what you want? Are you happy to have ads on a windows install you already paid, for example?
Because that’s what you’re doing. If you got a massive discount on account of the daily extra profit you’ll give them I would understand. But if not, why be so charitable to people who don’t deserve it?
Electric cars are not that great for the environment if you look into it deeply. Purchasing an old car and having things rebuilt like the engine are much more sustainable. You could also swap the engine out for an electric motor.
The largest block to having modern private cars is that laws require cars to have driver monitoring systems and kill switches installed. Cars also have microphones in them for hands free calling, emergency calls, and active noise cancellation.
Connecting your phone to your car is also a huge privacy invasion as now your phone that knows everything about you is tied to an invasive vehicle that takes you everywhere. A data aggregators wet dream.
You would need to remove the sim card at the minimum but it’s impossible to know ahead of time if that will detrimentally affect it’s functions and throw codes.
I have read about work being done on Linux operating systems for cars that I assume would be more open to modification but I don’t think we can expect anything reasonably private anytime soon from that.
You can purchase used electric cars too.
There are no electric cars that don’t track you except for the really old NiMH Rangers and Rav4s and whatnot that they leased to fleets in California back in the day. Even the very first mass-market Nissan Leaf had unacceptable telemetry from day 1.
Who would though? The marketing idea pushed to the public is that no oil changes means they need no maintenance. They are mechanical devices not magical devices. They require maintenance to stay in good working order like anything. Suspension, brakes (although less often with regeneration systems), tires, wipers, air filters, coolant, batteries 12v not just the rechargeable, transmission fluid (gear box oil on Teslas iirc), etc. This no maintenance myth has turned them into throw away disposable e waste. Not to mention the lack of service for repairing the batteries and computers in the USA leading to insurance totaling the vehicles and them ending up rebuilt in Ukraine.
My biggest worry with used EV is the batteries. Me living in a tropical country that can reach 40°C that has to take a big toll on battery health.
The other thing stopping me buying a new car is my old car still works fine and I don’t want to be in debt again for a car.
Just because your phone is connected to your car. Doesn’t mean the car gets all the info. Apple and Google made the integration.
Don’t. Despite the beliefs in modern cars saving the environment you’d probably do better to go vegetarian and repair an old gasoline car. Or you know use public transit with prepaid cards.
