• Mika@piefed.ca
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      2 days ago

      Yeah, because in the countries without capitalism it’s like on the meme 😮‍💨

      • Zorg@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        2 days ago

        Which countries don’t have capitalism?

        I want to say maybe North Korea, but authoritarian countries are fucked up for other reasons than capitalism.

        • Nawor3565@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          2 days ago

          I think Cuba is the only one that really fits the bill of “somewhat functional country without any variety of capitalism”, they’re authoritarian too although not nearly as bad as NK.

          • hatorade@lemmy.world
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            11 hours ago

            China has more billionaires than America, they’re capitalists disguised with socialist themes.

            North Korea even abandoned declaring itself as socialism with its Juche in it’s 2019 constitution, removing all meantions of socialist theory and practice.

          • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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            1 day ago

            Lol. China does not have capitalism? Please, tell me what economic system their companies are using? It might be state capitalism at most, but it’s still capitalism. Companies are run for profit, not for good, or for the state, or for the benefit of the people, or by workers.

            Edit: To the people downvoting, are you just angry that I’m right or do you disagree? If you disagree, you should leave a comment, not just a downvote. You have the opportunity to educate. Because of the lack of comments, it seems obvious it’s just downvotes because I’m not repeating the message you’re told to repeat.

    • krooklochurm@lemmy.ca
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      2 days ago

      It’s crazy how deeply this shit drills into people’s brains.

      You could have enough money to live out the rest of your days in luxury and people would still think less of you for not working.

      • blarghly@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        I currently am living out my days on a bare minimum of passive income. Everyone I talk to about it seems to think it is super cool.

        • bss03@infosec.pub
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          12 hours ago

          I think when I hit my number (so that passive income should maintain until my death), I’m not going to quit working, but begin salary-scale mutual aid / community building / charity efforts.

          But, I also think it’s cool you are living as close to outside Capitalism as possible.

          • blarghly@lemmy.world
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            11 hours ago

            I mean the great irony being that, as Pat said, if you don’t wanna work then that becomes your job. And if you don’t wanna capitalism, you become a capitalist (or at least petit bourgeois).

            I’ve been retired for a few years and am doing well. But also with the downtime, I’m increasingly considering re-entering the working world on my own terms, to see if that would be enjoyable too.

        • regedit@lemmy.zip
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          2 days ago

          And believe if they just stay late at work, or take on more work than they can handle, they too will be one of those billionaires one day!

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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      1 day ago

      Yep. Capitalism prioritizes efficiency of production. All of those things, at best, do not promote efficiency, and at worst harm it. This doesn’t mean they’re bad. It means capitalism won’t prioritize them.

    • MourningDove@lemmy.zip
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      2 days ago

      Jfc… is capitalism the reason for all things? Maybe you’re like a broken record because you try and force it to be the cause of everything that ever happened that is bad.

        • atopi@piefed.blahaj.zone
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          1 day ago

          Its possible for a capitalist country to have silly buildings and dyed hair and for a non capitalist country to not have silly buildings and dyed hair, therefore the reason is probably more complex than what broad category the economic system falls in

        • blarghly@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          It’s pretty easy.

          1. The claim made is that the reason we can’t dye our hair and have silly buildings is because of capitalism.
          2. We can observe that in capitalist countries there are silly buildings - eg, the Sydney Oprah House; and you actually can dye your hair - eg, half of my friends.
          3. If we look at non-capitalist countries like North Korea or Cuba, we notice, at best, an equivalent amount of silly buildings and hair dying.
          4. It may be stated that non-capitalist countries like North Korea or Cuba are not capitalist but are not the correct sort of non-capitalist countries to maximize silly buildings and dyed hair. The next obvious question is - if these are not the correct countries to look at, which are?
            4.1) Sometimes anarchist collectives are pointed to. The most notable among these in the modern world with significant scale is the Zapatista territory in Mexico. I have not personally been to the Zapatista territories, but based on some googling, I cannot find any particular evidence of more or less silly buildings or dyed hair in this region.
            4.2) Sometimes it is claimed that all the governments which would have maximized silly buildings and dyed hair were overthrown by the globalist/capitalist conspiracy (or whatever). But then we must ask why this same conspiracy failed to overthrow Cuba or North Korea. Or else why it has not overthrown the Northern European governments which have some non-capitalist features.

          Based on all this, I think there is a reasonable claim to be made that capitalism is not strongly corrolated with dyed hair and silly buildings. And with no strong corrolations, saying that a lack of dyed hair and silly buildings is capitalism’s fault cannot be claimed in good faith.

        • MourningDove@lemmy.zip
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          2 days ago

          Frankly, it’s just not worth the effort. You’re clearly wanting all bad things to be capitalism’s fault, and I really don’t thing any logical point made against that ideology is going to make any sense to you.

          • hatorade@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            So that’s a no. Best argument for capitalism, “I don’t wanna bother, just consume.”

            • MourningDove@lemmy.zip
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              2 days ago

              Oh I can refute it. I just value my time and I don’t exercise in futile arguments with people online that manufacture outrage from things that have nothing at all to do with the point being discussed- for example, capitalism being the reason for why we aren’t song anything in the meme.

              So, I’d say it’s more like:

              “I don’t wanna bother, because I don’t like to waste my time debating with kids who are known for creating arguments out of thin air by doing things like forcing you to defend points that you never even made to begin with.

              Or….

              “I don’t wanna bother, because even though I clearly stated that it’s not worth the time- you’ve proven the point correct by showing that you refuse to accept an unliked truth in a statement by incorrectly assuming that I cannot explain it.”

              Or…

              “I don’t take that schoolyard bait of “yOu aReN’t eXpLaiNiNg bEcaUsE yOu cAn’T!

              Whichever one makes you feel better. They’re all true so it matters very little to me.

              And take note: I will spend my time explaining all of this to you over explaining how capitalism isn’t the boogeyman behind every bump in the night, because at least in this- someone reading along might find a way out of having to waste their time arguing with people that just want to waste their time- where the end-result is just going to be me being called a “bOoTLiCkEr” or some other such misguided nuance-less nonsense.

              In short- You arrived at your opinion by being unreasonable. Why on earth should the onus be on me to educate you when you’re clearly not reasonable enough to accept that your logic here is deeply flawed?

              Now go ahead and do your little “I win” dance and respond with whatever you feel you need to say. And with all due respect, I probably won’t even read it, and I’m certainly not going to respond any further as everything I could say to anything you could say has already been said right here.

                • hatorade@lemmy.world
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                  1 day ago

                  “I don’t have time to actually back my beliefs, but I will belittle you, that I have time for.”

                • MourningDove@lemmy.zip
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                  1 day ago

                  So you either missed, or completely ignored the part where I said that If it helps someone reading along understand how not to fall into the time-sink trap of arguing with debate bros, it’s time well spent?

                  Because this pretty much illustrates my point. You’ll just make your own argument out of what I’m saying regardless of wether or not i spell it out for your in plain English- so I don’t waste my time with it.

                  But maybe someone else hasn’t learned this lesson yet and hopefully, they can see from the example that’s this discussion- that it is clearly impossible for any of you to avoid inadvertently proving.

              • hatorade@lemmy.world
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                1 day ago

                “No I don’t have time, but I’ll be a smary asshole for a few paragraphs.”

                So again, no actual defense for capitalism.

                • MourningDove@lemmy.zip
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                  4 hours ago

                  As I have said- several times now… I’m not here to defend capitalism. I’m here soaking up all the examples of why it’s pointless to debate people whose only argument relies on re-writing the arguments of others.

                  Thanks for your contribution.

                  EDIT: to the clown that deleted their message so that I’d receive it but not be able to reply,

                  It’s not about ego. But cowardly jabbing someone and then deleting your comment says a lot more about you.

            • MourningDove@lemmy.zip
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              2 days ago

              And this emphasizes my point. You think that because I won’t waste my time explaining something to you, I have nothing to explain, and therefore you win.

              This clears illustrates your inability to rationalize- which shows that I made the right call.

              • Zombie@feddit.uk
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                2 days ago

                It’s not mental repose they seek, but mental laziness.

                Those who never back down love themselves more than they love the truth.

                When the last word is always the one that offers itself first, the work becomes difficult.

                You want to explain everything by the facts that are known to you. But the facts that are not known to you? What do they say?

                It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.

                • Joseph Joubert

                https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Joubert

                Just some musings that this exchange made me think of.

                • MourningDove@lemmy.zip
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                  2 days ago

                  Yeah. He definitely has some good quotes that apply here:

                  • Ask the young. They know everything.

                  • When I see young people such as those of our day, I think that Heaven wishes to destroy the world.

                  • It is not facts, but rumors that cause emotions among the people. What is believed creates everything.

                  • One loves to say what he knows, the other loves to say what he thinks.