Just to be very clear, the DNC leadership is antagonistic to our (I assumed) shared goals.
The Democrats are obviously what needs to be supported in a 2 party system, so regardless of the DNC antics, the sacrifice for not choosing them will be more severe, and they know that.
I’m saying this all to say, absolutely support a progressive candidate if you can in the primaries, but when it comes election time, fall in line.
Also, there is a big problem where Mamdani is supremely clever and fast on his feet, having practiced every comeback a million times in the shower, ready to let them rip on command.
At the federal there is no one with that level of natural charisma or wit.
I’m saying this all to say, absolutely support a progressive candidate if you can in the primaries, but when it comes election time, fall in line.
No.
A candidate campaigns for MY vote.
The Democratic establishment can prove they aren’t an obstacle to progress, me blindly voting for them is no longer a grace I automatically extend to a party hellbent on sabotaging progressives even if it means losing to literal fascists.
Last time this primary vs general was paid attention to (internationally at least), it was because Bernie was about to out-primary Hillary and then the Democrats figuratively put their thumb on the scale and gave it to Hillary.
I absolutely understand even a dead rat would be better president than the Pedophile in Chief you have now. But the people of the USA barely have a very indirect path to elect their representatives… this is a democracy like Cheetos are “food”
Okay. I meant to imply that any democracy (practically by definition) is based on compromise, which is why I said that straight up instead of snarkily (and unhelpfully) bashing the USA.
As for the Hillary-Bernie thing… At then end of the primary, Hillary had like 3 million more votes than Bernie did. Notably, Bernie conceeded to Hillary and even campaigned for her, because he knew that she was much better than trump, and democracy is inherently a compromise.
Okay. I meant to imply that any democracy (practically by definition) is based on compromise, which is why I said that straight up instead of snarkily (and unhelpfully) bashing the USA.
I’m sorry but not recognizing the flavour of democracy the USA has is broken is a problem. It’s like telling starving kids of Gaza that broccoli is a nutritious snack… that may be true but the issue is not they are picky eaters, the problem is that there is no food
As for the Hillary-Bernie thing… At then end of the primary, Hillary had like 3 million more votes than Bernie did. Notably, Bernie conceeded to Hillary and even campaigned for her, because he knew that she was much better than trump, and democracy is inherently a compromise.
…not recognizing the flavour of democracy the USA has is broken is a problem.
I never claimed that democracy in the US wasn’t broken. If you think I did, please point specific statements.
Here you go…
How many votes did Bernie get in the primary, and how many did Hillary get? I can understand being upset about the results of the primary if Bernie had received more votes than Hillary, and then the DNC nominated Hillary anyway, but that didn’t happen. He lost the primary, and thus he was not the candidate. He knows that democracy is a compromisea, and he not just voted for, but publicly supported and campaigned for Hillary after he lost the nomination.
Absolutely, but I will not keep falling in line for candidates that would rather lose than listen to me and publicly and emphatically support the very reasonable policies I want.
At a certain point my vote is earned, it has to be or else I will be ignored.
I think you are missing the meaning of “compromise”. You need to vote for the candidate that will best represent you… And part of the best representation equation is being able to win the election.
No, the Democratic Party is selectively missing the meaning of “compromise” only when it comes to shutting down progressives, they are happy as hell to hand power to conservatives.
I know what compromise looks like and I reward it when I see it.
Like they are literally openly admitting that they acknowledge they’re willing to blow their legs off for a chance at offending the rich people at the DNC who will be insulated from all the results.
Its like a teenager who goes out doing dangerous behaviour to be rebellious against their parents.
This stupid shit will lose you the ability to vote, and fuck over millions of people not deserving the blunt end of said stupidity.
It’s been seen time and time again that democrats losing shifts them right.
Thats what happens.
The DNC knows that all they have to do is play “At least we’re not trump” and they’re happy enough.
You acting like a petulant child, as if somehow you’re really getting back the rich out of touch people is pants on head stupid. It’s you that loses the most. Actually no, its the marginalized people who lose the most, yet you sit there, pout, and fuck yourself and your fellow country while having a childish tantrum.
The Democratic establishment can prove they aren’t an obstacle to progress
They won’t, and you already know this, so you can either be mature and pragmatic by realizing this and voting as best aligns with your interests while trying to change the party over time as this is a 2 party winner takes all/first past the post style system, or you can act like a child, and self harm;throwing a tantrum whilst walking a tight rope.
me blindly voting for them is no longer a grace I automatically extend to a party hellbent on sabotaging progressives even if it means losing to literal fascists.
I refuse to believe real people and not fascists agitators can have opinions this brain dead.
I refuse to believe real people and not fascists agitators can have opinions this brain dead.
This is exactly why people with your perspective are destroying this country and keep losing elections to fascists, y’all refuse to believe reality and instead feel the need to force a moral judgement on votors not giving your shit candidates votes automatically because “other side bad”.
It’s been seen time and time again that democrats losing shifts them right.
This is exactly why people with your perspective are destroying this country and keep losing elections to fascists
Its crazy you say shit like this when we both support progressiveness. “You are realistic and therefor bad”.
y’all refuse to believe reality and instead need to force a moral judgment on voters not giving your shit candidates votes automatically because “other side bad”.
They literally aren’t my preferred candidates. That was inherent to the statment that they were not preferred but you still should because not doing so is petulant tantrum throwing that hurts many, including yourself.
You badly want reality to just work the way you want it to work instead of the way it does, and would rather be delusional than face the facts.
You literally can’t logically justify your emotional and self harming behaviour and never stop to self reflect on why that is.
That is their choice, not mine.
100% your choice. Fortunately you are an (insane and child like) minority, but holy fuck do you not help.
You do know that when you start insulting your opponent you’ve both lost the argument and shown your ass, right?
Hopefully one day you’ll realize that you are the problem, that it is you carrying water for the right-wing party that together with the far-right-wing party have turned the good ole USA into a right-loving hellhole, slowly but surely over the last 50 years or so. Always unable to understand why a growing number of people are done with your political farce, just foaming at the mouth as your shill cries of blue-compliance and lesser-evil voting fail to do anything.
You do know that when you start insulting your opponent you’ve both lost the argument and shown your ass, right?
No, I don’t know that, because its something people without actual points in their favour bust out when they feel the other person has been too blunt.
In this case, the other person wishes to harm a significant amount of people. I owe them no apologies, and the only people showing their asses are the people treating significant, real life politics like a game and as if they were children flipping all the pieces off because they didn’t win.
Hopefully one day you’ll realize that you are the problem, that it is you carrying water for the right-wing party that together with the far-right-wing party have turned the good ole USA into a right-loving hellhole, slowly but surely over the last 50 years or so.
The thing about this child like understanding of this easy to understand system where only 2 parties will ever have a chance due to the math of it being a first past the post/winner takes all system, is that the very obvious only way to change said system without tremendous blood shed, is by slowly transitioning the party closest to your goals over time. Because this can’t be completed faster than a short on tiktok or youtube, you get enraged and think the whole system can never be fixed. Do you have a solution? Of course you don’t though. You’d instead have it get more broken, harming you and your causes more.
and lesser-evil voting fail to do anything.
This by itself is tremendously ignorant to the massive differences in policy between the 2 parties. All of this comment is filled with impotent irate ignorance.
Stop condescending me, Kamala campaigning with Liz Cheney daughter of deceased war criminal Dick Cheney while utterly silencing Palestinian voices was what lost the US presidential election, not progressives.
No, this is a tea party moment for the left, we don’t need the Democratic Party, they need us and they are still refusing to behave like they do.
No. You’re wilfully harmful takes actively deserve that as you seek to hurt unrelated people for the actions of people who will be completely insulated from your tantrum.
Kamala campaigning with Liz Cheney daughter of deceased war criminal Dick Cheney while utterly silencing Palestinian voices was what lost the US presidential election
Maybe the first part, but any people who protest voted over the Palestinians have the blood of the thousands more that have been killed on their hands as a direct result.
You cannot simply ignore the world just because its not the way you want it to be.
No, this is a tea party moment for the left, we don’t need the Democratic Party
The movement that ultimately still voted for republicans when the time came for the most part as it was incredibly small because anyone who understand math understands that in a winner takes all/first past the post system you can’t have more than 2 main parties?
they need us and they are still refusing to behave like they do.
No. You have it backwards. They’re fine with losing. You aren’t. You and people you must be pretending to care about get fucked when they lose. They know that, and so you aren’t making them stop and think, you’re just fucking yourself and others harder.
Congratulations, you are why Trump was elected. It’s your fucking obligation as a citizen to be informed and engaged in our process. Is the two party system bullshit? Yes. But the way it’s set up if you abstain or vote third party that’s effectively a vote for a republican, and you are very nearly as responsible as them. You want a more progressive dnc? Register and fucking primary incumbent establishment dems with progressives. Drag the party left or own the fucking responsibility of being a part of the problem.
Congratulations, people like you are why Democrats lose when they try to appeal to what they perceive to be centrist views and betray their base for massive corporations :)
Democrats lose when they fail to turn out their base because their base knows they are full of shit…
Where in the hell have you been for the last thirty years? The Democrats are a centrist party. If anything they’re a center right party because of people spouting bullshit like you instead of pulling the party left. If every whiny liberal and leftist actually fucking voted in primaries for progressives we’d have a populist progressive Democrat party. But you’d rather bitch on the internet about your bullshit principles that got trump elected.
that’s great. again: do what you want, but don’t think you’re closing this tab having spread the idea that voting 3rd party isn’t dumb, futile, and just plain morally wrong
Just to be very clear, the DNC leadership is antagonistic to our (I assumed) shared goals.
The Democrats are obviously what needs to be supported in a 2 party system, so regardless of the DNC antics, the sacrifice for not choosing them will be more severe, and they know that.
I’m saying this all to say, absolutely support a progressive candidate if you can in the primaries, but when it comes election time, fall in line.
Also, there is a big problem where Mamdani is supremely clever and fast on his feet, having practiced every comeback a million times in the shower, ready to let them rip on command.
At the federal there is no one with that level of natural charisma or wit.
That’s something important to point out.
No.
A candidate campaigns for MY vote.
The Democratic establishment can prove they aren’t an obstacle to progress, me blindly voting for them is no longer a grace I automatically extend to a party hellbent on sabotaging progressives even if it means losing to literal fascists.
Don’t vote to get the best party in. They all suck. Vote to keep the worst party out.
Well yes, until a point
… and that’s how Trump got in.
Is it?
YES
Sure, and compromise is inherent to democracy. So go vote for who you want in the primaries, and vote against who you don’t want in the general.
What democracy?
Any/every democracy?
I meant to imply the USA does not have one.
Last time this primary vs general was paid attention to (internationally at least), it was because Bernie was about to out-primary Hillary and then the Democrats figuratively put their thumb on the scale and gave it to Hillary.
I absolutely understand even a dead rat would be better president than the Pedophile in Chief you have now. But the people of the USA barely have a very indirect path to elect their representatives… this is a democracy like Cheetos are “food”
Okay. I meant to imply that any democracy (practically by definition) is based on compromise, which is why I said that straight up instead of snarkily (and unhelpfully) bashing the USA.
As for the Hillary-Bernie thing… At then end of the primary, Hillary had like 3 million more votes than Bernie did. Notably, Bernie conceeded to Hillary and even campaigned for her, because he knew that she was much better than trump, and democracy is inherently a compromise.
I’m sorry but not recognizing the flavour of democracy the USA has is broken is a problem. It’s like telling starving kids of Gaza that broccoli is a nutritious snack… that may be true but the issue is not they are picky eaters, the problem is that there is no food
Here you go: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/why-sanders-new-hampshire-victory-wasn-t-so-huge-n516066
No you aren’t, don’t lie.
I never claimed that democracy in the US wasn’t broken. If you think I did, please point specific statements.
How many votes did Bernie get in the primary, and how many did Hillary get? I can understand being upset about the results of the primary if Bernie had received more votes than Hillary, and then the DNC nominated Hillary anyway, but that didn’t happen. He lost the primary, and thus he was not the candidate. He knows that democracy is a compromisea, and he not just voted for, but publicly supported and campaigned for Hillary after he lost the nomination.
Absolutely, but I will not keep falling in line for candidates that would rather lose than listen to me and publicly and emphatically support the very reasonable policies I want.
At a certain point my vote is earned, it has to be or else I will be ignored.
I think you are missing the meaning of “compromise”. You need to vote for the candidate that will best represent you… And part of the best representation equation is being able to win the election.
No, the Democratic Party is selectively missing the meaning of “compromise” only when it comes to shutting down progressives, they are happy as hell to hand power to conservatives.
I know what compromise looks like and I reward it when I see it.
I rest my case.
These people are seriously delusional.
Like they are literally openly admitting that they acknowledge they’re willing to blow their legs off for a chance at offending the rich people at the DNC who will be insulated from all the results.
Its like a teenager who goes out doing dangerous behaviour to be rebellious against their parents.
This stupid shit will lose you the ability to vote, and fuck over millions of people not deserving the blunt end of said stupidity.
It’s been seen time and time again that democrats losing shifts them right.
Thats what happens.
The DNC knows that all they have to do is play “At least we’re not trump” and they’re happy enough.
You acting like a petulant child, as if somehow you’re really getting back the rich out of touch people is pants on head stupid. It’s you that loses the most. Actually no, its the marginalized people who lose the most, yet you sit there, pout, and fuck yourself and your fellow country while having a childish tantrum.
They won’t, and you already know this, so you can either be mature and pragmatic by realizing this and voting as best aligns with your interests while trying to change the party over time as this is a 2 party winner takes all/first past the post style system, or you can act like a child, and self harm;throwing a tantrum whilst walking a tight rope.
I refuse to believe real people and not fascists agitators can have opinions this brain dead.
It’s literally the political equivalent of throwing a hissy fit about the amount of foam in a latte. Literal Karen voters.
This is exactly why people with your perspective are destroying this country and keep losing elections to fascists, y’all refuse to believe reality and instead feel the need to force a moral judgement on votors not giving your shit candidates votes automatically because “other side bad”.
That is their choice, not mine.
Its crazy you say shit like this when we both support progressiveness. “You are realistic and therefor bad”.
They literally aren’t my preferred candidates. That was inherent to the statment that they were not preferred but you still should because not doing so is petulant tantrum throwing that hurts many, including yourself.
You badly want reality to just work the way you want it to work instead of the way it does, and would rather be delusional than face the facts.
You literally can’t logically justify your emotional and self harming behaviour and never stop to self reflect on why that is.
100% your choice. Fortunately you are an (insane and child like) minority, but holy fuck do you not help.
You do know that when you start insulting your opponent you’ve both lost the argument and shown your ass, right?
Hopefully one day you’ll realize that you are the problem, that it is you carrying water for the right-wing party that together with the far-right-wing party have turned the good ole USA into a right-loving hellhole, slowly but surely over the last 50 years or so. Always unable to understand why a growing number of people are done with your political farce, just foaming at the mouth as your shill cries of blue-compliance and lesser-evil voting fail to do anything.
No, I don’t know that, because its something people without actual points in their favour bust out when they feel the other person has been too blunt.
In this case, the other person wishes to harm a significant amount of people. I owe them no apologies, and the only people showing their asses are the people treating significant, real life politics like a game and as if they were children flipping all the pieces off because they didn’t win.
The thing about this child like understanding of this easy to understand system where only 2 parties will ever have a chance due to the math of it being a first past the post/winner takes all system, is that the very obvious only way to change said system without tremendous blood shed, is by slowly transitioning the party closest to your goals over time. Because this can’t be completed faster than a short on tiktok or youtube, you get enraged and think the whole system can never be fixed. Do you have a solution? Of course you don’t though. You’d instead have it get more broken, harming you and your causes more.
This by itself is tremendously ignorant to the massive differences in policy between the 2 parties. All of this comment is filled with impotent irate ignorance.
Stop condescending me, Kamala campaigning with Liz Cheney daughter of deceased war criminal Dick Cheney while utterly silencing Palestinian voices was what lost the US presidential election, not progressives.
No, this is a tea party moment for the left, we don’t need the Democratic Party, they need us and they are still refusing to behave like they do.
No. You’re wilfully harmful takes actively deserve that as you seek to hurt unrelated people for the actions of people who will be completely insulated from your tantrum.
Maybe the first part, but any people who protest voted over the Palestinians have the blood of the thousands more that have been killed on their hands as a direct result.
You cannot simply ignore the world just because its not the way you want it to be.
The movement that ultimately still voted for republicans when the time came for the most part as it was incredibly small because anyone who understand math understands that in a winner takes all/first past the post system you can’t have more than 2 main parties?
No. You have it backwards. They’re fine with losing. You aren’t. You and people you must be pretending to care about get fucked when they lose. They know that, and so you aren’t making them stop and think, you’re just fucking yourself and others harder.
I wish I could down vote this a thousand times !
You are enabling fascism.
Congratulations, you are why Trump was elected. It’s your fucking obligation as a citizen to be informed and engaged in our process. Is the two party system bullshit? Yes. But the way it’s set up if you abstain or vote third party that’s effectively a vote for a republican, and you are very nearly as responsible as them. You want a more progressive dnc? Register and fucking primary incumbent establishment dems with progressives. Drag the party left or own the fucking responsibility of being a part of the problem.
Congratulations, people like you are why Democrats lose when they try to appeal to what they perceive to be centrist views and betray their base for massive corporations :)
Democrats lose when they fail to turn out their base because their base knows they are full of shit…
Where in the hell have you been for the last thirty years? The Democrats are a centrist party. If anything they’re a center right party because of people spouting bullshit like you instead of pulling the party left. If every whiny liberal and leftist actually fucking voted in primaries for progressives we’d have a populist progressive Democrat party. But you’d rather bitch on the internet about your bullshit principles that got trump elected.
LOL it hasn’t even been a year and the “iM vOtInG fOr JiLL sTeIn” morons are back in full force as if nothing even happened
do what you want comrade. but don’t expect to not get shat on and ridiculed for your wrong decision
Did I say I voted for Jill Stein?
did you vote for harris?
Yes
and yet you’re already saying no to whomever the DNC picks to replace a literal fascist rapist convicted felon con-man…
i’m skeptical, but it doesn’t matter. my point stands. there are TWO possible outcomes, like it or not, and 3rd party is NOT one of them
Well, I agree with you on that at least.
that’s great. again: do what you want, but don’t think you’re closing this tab having spread the idea that voting 3rd party isn’t dumb, futile, and just plain morally wrong