In the 90s this wasn’t political. Now 2 dudes…
Dax was 2 dudes
😂😂😂
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Yes, I know that “third gender” isn’t the same as a “dude” and that they chickened out by having Soren played by a female actor. But it still counts, damn it!
Typically when I comment, I have something meaningful to add to the conversation. Sometimes though, I just find that an upvote isn’t enough to capture my emphatic agreement with a person.
This is one of the latter times.
I agree that two men kissing would’ve been far more controversial, but two women kissing was still definitely political in the 90s. I’ve read stuff from Deep Space 9 writers saying that the ability to have scenes like this is one of the reasons why they love sci-fi as a genre, because it allows you to explore things that would otherwise be difficult to depict, and explore themes in a more accessible way.
I think they also said that they had to work hard to make it clear that whilst the taboo depicted in the episode was obviously allegorical for homosexuality, that in order for this to work, they needed to make it clear within the text of the episode that from the characters’ perspective, the taboo was around intimacy with a partner from a past life, not homosexuality.
You forget how recently gay rights were achieved and normalized.
Except now fascists are trying to undo it, along with the rights of black people and other minorities.
Lol, yeah… I don’t think too many people on this site are old enough to remember just how anti gay the 90’s were. This was literally one of the first depictions of lesbians kissing to be publicly televised in the US. I was living in the south at the time and they edited it out of the show.
Interracial couples weren’t allowed to marry until 1967. Women weren’t allowed to have credit cards or their own bank accounts until 1974. Gay couples weren’t allowed to marry until 2015…
Most of the people in Congress are old enough to have witnessed all of this progress in their lifetime, and a lot of them are working as hard as possible to undue it all.
Girls gone wild came out in 1997. Girls were kissing and having sex in college long before that.
This scene in DS9 was pure fan service. Sexy women kissing for the pleasure of men. Trying to couch it as a gay rights thing is pretty silly. They didn’t get married to each other on the show and they both had male love interests.
Girls gone wild came out in 1997. Girls were kissing and having sex in college long before that.
Porn does not equate to public acceptance… There’s been gay porn since cameras became a thing, that doesn’t mean the majority of Americans would be fine with it in their homes.
This scene in DS9 was pure fan service. Sexy women kissing for the pleasure of men.
The important part is that it was played on a publicly accessible network and a show many people watched with their families. Not every first ice breaker is a deep piece of art, but it often allows for shows later down the line to improve on the subject without taking as much heat.
Also…“In the first draft, Dax’s former partner was written as male, but after this was changed, the story was cleared through studio executives. The Trill taboo was intended to be an allegory for homosexuality and homophobia.”
It was purposely changed as a commentary on homophobia.
You’re not wrong that they cleared it with the network (they had to clear everything with the network). What you’re missing is that the execution of the scene, what we actually saw on screen, was pure titillation. It was sex and sex sold to a heterosexual (predominantly white) male audience.
You’d have a much better case if it were 2 men kissing. Jonathan Frakes wanted to do that for TNG! He was shut down completely.
What you’re missing is that the execution of the scene, what we actually saw on screen, was pure titillation. It was sex and sex sold to a heterosexual (predominantly white) male audience.
You could make the same claim about Kirk Uhura… Just because it doesn’t fit your individual standards doesn’t mean it’s not significant.
It was sex and sex sold to a heterosexual (predominantly white) male audience.
Again… I don’t think you really understand just how conservative America was about gay relationships in the 90s. Just because it was what you labeled as sexy, does not mean that conservative America was highly critical of it.
You’d have a much better case if it were 2 men kissing. Jonathan Frakes wanted to do that for TNG! He was shut down completely.
Just because one minority gets representation doesn’t mean that a different minority suffers from it. You can both be happy for lesbian representation and disappointment for the lack of gay male representation.
No, Uhura is clearly more than a sex appeal character. That role would fall to Janice Rand.
I grew up in the 90s. I understand it perfectly well. We had everything from Elton John to RuPaul. We were a long, long way from the days of Paul Lynde and the wink wink nudge nudge approach.
You can both be happy for lesbian representation
That scene is not lesbian representation, it’s two straight women kissing for the benefit of the audience. It’s 100% shot from a straight male gaze perspective.
Interracial couples weren’t allowed to marry until 1967. Women weren’t allowed to have credit cards or their own bank accounts until 1974.
Interracial marriage was made legal nationally in 1967 but much longer outside of the Deep South. The bank account bit is just wrong. Credit cards is true.
Interracial marriage was made legal nationally in 1967 but much longer outside of the Deep South.
Yes, just like gay marriage was legal in some states before it was nationally. This does not make my statement incorrect, nor does your statement really add anything to the original claim.
The bank account bit is just wrong.
Again, you’re being unnecessarily pedantic. Some women were allowed to have bank accounts, but often had to have the permission of their husband or a male co-signer. Most women faced hurdles that made it difficult or impossible to obtain a bank account by themselves.
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Oh believe me I don’t. I grew up in the era where “gay” was the ultimate swear word, it just meant anything bad.
But lesbians were awesome.
Chicks making out on tv was the norm, but generally it was presented as “straight” ladies performing for male enjoyment.
As long as it was for gooning and going related activities, it wasn’t political.
So much has changed…
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This is only political as a result of trash humans inability to let people live their own lives in peace.
Can’t wait for the day that my sex life is no one else’s business and when I can love who I want without other people having feelings. It’s my life. Back off!
Women kissing is political
As is dogs barking and wind blowing
God damnit
Uhura-Kirk in 68 was very political too, interracial TV kiss (not strictly the first).
Whats interesting to me is that in both cases the only reason they could get away with it was the appeal to white cis men.
If it was a black guy and a white woman it would have caused riots.
If it was two dudes it wouldn’t have made it to air.
We should keep in mind that a lot of the progress we’ve made the last 30 years has been exploiting cis male sexuality. Maybe we could’ve avoided the far right resurgence if Netflix had a hit tv show about a sexy Syrian woman with a thing for blondes living in Berlin.
World is a fuck.
God had nothing to do with it - humans damned themselves.
They kissed politically …
Remember the TNG episode that introduced the Trill that was all about gender swapping?
I’ll be in my bunk.
I just rewatched that episode yesterday and had the same thought, op.
I’m not jealous you’re jealous
Part of the problem with Strange New Worlds is that it’s been getting less woke.
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Isn’t a lesbian kiss episode (as well as a boxing match episode) a sign that a show has jumped the shark?
Not that this scene didn’t live rent free in my head for years - just asking.
Can be, but this wasnt, and star trek is kind of an exception to… Definitely the former, sometimes the latter. Political SciFi travel/not-quite-anthology shows can get away with a lot of this kind of shit.
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